Making the most of whats left of the VHF/UHF bands

[kayn1n32008]

IMO Amateur Radio is barely treading water....

Ham radio is a very niche hobby AT BEST.

Sadly it's been invaded by the 48hr HamCram folks that then go out and buy junk $25 CCR's. Then they show up looking for a 'codeplug' because they lack the critical reasoning skills to ask thoughtful questions and apply the information they get told. They only want to be spoonfed what they need. The lack of care or respect for things that we amateur radio operators are supposed to uphold, like ensuring we are transmitting spectrally clean carriers, and complying with the rules, regulations and spirit of what amateur radio is. They have thier annoying Roger beeps, splattering crap across the spectrum and muffled, crappy audio. Then when you tell them their radios suck, sound like crap and are splattering the spectrum with spurs amd harmonics, they get all pissy about it and start telling you that you are an 'elitist', that the radios 'werk grate' and who cares about the spurs and harmonics because it's only a few milliwatts of power and nobody will notice it and it's not hurting any one.

It makes it really hard to want to do anything on the hobby with people like that, because I have absolutely nothing in common with them. It's why I keep to a very small circle of friends in this hobby.

I more use it as spectrum I don't have to pay a yearly fee to use, and really only talk to a small handful of friends, on digital repeaters, using local only talkgroups on DMR and P25.

Even traveling, I rarely PTT. I use it more for background noise when I'm not listening to music.

I'll also use it to listen to truckers on the VHF LADD channels. Weather, road conditions and accidents are shared by drivers constantly, especially on the major routes in the provinces I frequent.

I keep lots of ham repeaters and all the band plan simplex channels programmed in my mobile.

I do travel in areas that lack cellular coverage, and only have ham epeater coverage or Satellite phone coverage.

 

[Spider255]

I do like programming old PMR equipment to work on the Ham bands, its great fun but you do need to tune and align some ex-business radios properly. Some of them do actually work fantastically with clean outputs and very good audio, if your microphone is old and worn out combined with deviation not set correctly then its going to sound like junk. The Motorola radios and Taits I find are the best sets for sounding good on air. My iCom F1010 programed to the 2 meter band sounds brilliant, although the mic is a new old stock basic Sharman's mic, nothing special but sounds fantastic, I've been told by other hams they could hear a pin drop.

 

[kayn1n32008]

I do like programming old PMR equipment to work on the Ham bands, its great fun but you do need to tune and align some ex-business radios properly. Some of them do actually work fantastically with clean outputs and very good audio, if your microphone is old and worn out combined with deviation not set correctly then its going to sound like junk.

Exactly. Tuned and aligned properly. When was the last time a IC-2AT a ham bought in the 80's was aligned? Or any of the multitude of garbage $20 BaoTurd/TYT/BeTech/Tidradio/Aluince or what ever other cheap Chinese garbage, radio on a chip POS


I'm running all XTS/XPR gear right now. Even on a XTS2500's worst day, it sounds better than most of the hammy toys. It can easily be tuned and aligned.

I paid more for my IC-92AD, than any of my XTS2500's.

The Motorola radios and Taits I find are the best sets for sounding good on air. My iCom F1010 programed to the 2 meter band sounds brilliant, although the mic is a new old stock basic Sharman's mic, nothing special but sounds fantastic, I've been told by other hams they could hear a pin drop.

They also properly detect and act on the phase change of properly CTCSS reverse burst present on LMR repeaters, and I don't have to hear the annoying squelch crashes, like with ham gear. Selectivity and front end filtering is so far ahead of any ham gear, except the HTX202.

I'll take LMR gear all day long over ham gear, even with out the ability to do FPP. Not even my XTS2500/5000 portables have FPP or trunking in their Flashport codes.

 

[Boombox]

As a long-term monitor of several decades, I don't see 2 Meters or 440 ever making a comeback. It could, but it would take ham operators to do it -- they'd actually have to pick up that mic and press the talk button. But too many of them don't, because the last few times I ran my scanner on 2 Meters it was nothing but hiss. In 1991 it would have had at least several QSO's on two of the main repeaters in the area (I think one of them is not longer existent, so there's that). When I tuned through 440, it was also like a ghost town.

If you don't use the spectrum, that's the problem. How do you fix it? I don't know. Ask the inactive hams that question.

One could say similar things about the state of the HF ham bands. In 1991, 20 Meters would be nearly wall to wall with QSO's on a late Saturday afternoon. Heck, even in 1996, during a Solar Minimum, it had a lot more activity. Now it's at least half static. There are probably twice as many licensed hams in the US now as there were in 1991, but less than half the activity. If it weren't for things like POTA and maybe FT8, probably nobody would be on the bands except a handful of stragglers.

It's a choice that individuals make. If the folks who have the licenses don't use the spectrum, what does that say to people who aren't in the hobby?

 

[K9KLC]

As a long-term monitor of several decades, I don't see 2 Meters or 440 ever making a comeback. It could, but it would take ham operators to do it -- they'd actually have to pick up that mic and press the talk button. But too many of them don't, because the last few times I ran my scanner on 2 Meters it was nothing but hiss. In 1991 it would have had at least several QSO's on two of the main repeaters in the area (I think one of them is not longer existent, so there's that). When I tuned through 440, it was also like a ghost town.

If you don't use the spectrum, that's the problem. How do you fix it? I don't know. Ask the inactive hams that question.

One could say similar things about the state of the HF ham bands. In 1991, 20 Meters would be nearly wall to wall with QSO's on a late Saturday afternoon. Heck, even in 1996, during a Solar Minimum, it had a lot more activity. Now it's at least half static. There are probably twice as many licensed hams in the US now as there were in 1991, but less than half the activity. If it weren't for things like POTA and maybe FT8, probably nobody would be on the bands except a handful of stragglers.

It's a choice that individuals make. If the folks who have the licenses don't use the spectrum, what does that say to people who aren't in the hobby?

Varies from area to area. In our area mics get picked up.

 

[kb9mwr]

I have a 19 year old son. He's been exposed to radio all his life. Both my wife and myself hold ham tickets. He's had FRS and GMRS at his disposal.

I think hams have failed to comprehend the communications tools that the younger generation has grown up with. While we can all see the magic in talking to someone half way around the world with a few watts and some wire, the younger generation has much better tools in their hands. My son has had a smart phone since he was in high school (allowed us to track his location), and he can easily communicate with his friends no matter where they are. He can do that with voice, text or video. He has access to tools that make APRS look like a kids toy. He can access nearly any piece of information that has ever existed anywhere in the world.

Amateur radio hasn't kept up. Amateur radio operators, for the most part, jammed a stick in the ground sometime in the 1990's and most have refused to move much farther. What was once a hobby that lead technology is now one that is stuck mostly a few decades back, and with people that just want to buy an appliance. Amateur radio lags modern technology by years, sometimes decades, yet we want the younger generation to embrace it as we saw it.

It's fun to lament how things were "back in the day". As a ham for a few decades, I can agree. I miss the way 2 meters/70 centimeters was. I miss how CB was.

Amateur radio doesn't grab the attention of the younger generation. The older hams have made life hell for those new kids who show up on the bands. I've heard the "old guard" chase people off because they made some minor mistake that all hams have made.

The younger generation isn't to blame. The "old hams" are. They've refused to let the hobby move forward. They demand the new hams pay homage to them.

I'd love to see the bands come alive again, but I don't think they ever will. There really are better communications technologies available to the general public and they don't have to deal with the old hams.

If my son wanted to get his ham ticket, I'd help him. But I don't see that ever happening. I don't see that amateur radio holds a future for most. It's old technology ruled by old guys that don't like the new generation. Those that are trying to improve the quantity of new amateurs are mostly old guys that don't get it (looking squarely at you, ARRL).

Thank you for sharing this. Yes I feel too that the technology hasn't kept up. I got into the hobby in the 90's as a teen.... its largely become the last bastion for museum modes. Regulation reform is to blame as well as those who hold tightly to the past. The hobby needs more visionary people in leadership rolls. Another problem is traditionally the hams themselves advanced the technology. That's largely shifted, and now reliant on manufactures (of which there are few) to bring things forward.

 

[K9KLC]

Thank you for sharing this. Yes I feel too that the technology hasn't kept up. I got into the hobby in the 90's as a teen.... its largely become the last bastion for museum modes. Regulation reform is to blame as well as those who hold tightly to the past. The hobby needs more visionary people in leadership rolls. Another problem is traditionally the hams themselves advanced the technology. That's largely shifted, and now reliant on manufactures (of which there are few) to bring things forward.

I'll go for the flip side of this coin...Frankly, If you watch any of the DMR dashboards, you'll see that well over 90% are coming into the system via the internet. Why go thru the trouble to put up an antenna, and work simplex on VHF and UHF when you can spend pennies on the dollar (compared to radio prices in the 80s-90s, plug in this mystical device to your Internet and POOF, you're doing what we've done for years and years with SKYPE and now FaceTime and google meet or whatever.
Hams have jumped on some of that technology, that's why the airwaves declining. Why bother with airwaves when the internet can do it all for you.

I had my 1 month messing with Internet HF. That was enough for me. Currently my UHF/VHF needs are met by a 35 year old Kenwood 641 on 2 meters, 1.25 meters, and 70 centimeters. I also do use a Motorola 900 radio for 33CM, and all of these radios are used on both local repeaters and simplex daily with a group of guys in my area.

I guess I'm lucky in my area we have a group of guys that are still active on the airwaves, and have a blast doing it. If that's old fashioned, then so be it. Some of us even do the dreaded CW locally on both 2 and 6 meters on occasion. Why? Because we can I guess.
At any rate, the OP titled this Making the most of the VHF/UHF bands, and that's what we still try and do at least around here.

 

[kb9mwr]

I'll go for the flip side of this coin...Frankly, If you watch any of the DMR dashboards, you'll see that well over 90% are coming into the system via the internet. Why go thru the trouble to put up an antenna, and work simplex on VHF and UHF when you can spend pennies on the dollar (compared to radio prices in the 80s-90s, plug in this mystical device to your Internet and POOF, you're doing what we've done for years and years with SKYPE and now FaceTime and google meet or whatever.
Hams have jumped on some of that technology, that's why the airwaves declining. Why bother with airwaves when the internet can do it all for you.

I had my 1 month messing with Internet HF. That was enough for me. Currently my UHF/VHF needs are met by a 35 year old Kenwood 641 on 2 meters, 1.25 meters, and 70 centimeters. I also do use a Motorola 900 radio for 33CM, and all of these radios are used on both local repeaters and simplex daily with a group of guys in my area.

I guess I'm lucky in my area we have a group of guys that are still active on the airwaves, and have a blast doing it. If that's old fashioned, then so be it. Some of us even do the dreaded CW locally on both 2 and 6 meters on occasion. Why? Because we can I guess.
At any rate, the OP titled this Making the most of the VHF/UHF bands, and that's what we still try and do at least around here.

I don't understand or see the internet tie in lure myself. And I do (or at least try to) the same thing by rag chewing with group of local people.

I was referring to the lure radio had when it was a relatively new thing. After a certain amount of time a new radio development seems to have always happened to keep people interested. Like television, be that slow scan or fast, SSB after AM had been around for a while, etc. Then the 70's with FM... autopatch, etc People come out of the wood work or into the hobby just for these new developments.

 

[K9KLC]

I don't understand or see the internet tie in lure myself. And I do (or at least try to) the same thing by rag chewing with group of local people.

I was referring to the lure radio had when it was a relatively new thing. After a certain amount of time a new radio development seems to have always happened to keep people interested. Like television, be that slow scan or fast, SSB after AM had been around for a while, etc. Then the 70's with FM... autopatch, etc People come out of the wood work or into the hobby just for these new developments.

Yes, I agree. I wasn't licensed till 95 but had been on various other radio bands since 71 (yes including CB) and even then, getting into repeaters, an auto patch was the cat's meow. Back then, I and others, had a 1.25 meter, and 70CM linked system (all RF linked) and there were times it was so busy, you could hardly get a word in edgewise. Now, a repeater sits where I had my big dog 70CM repeater at a tower 500' up, and is virtually silent. Other machines are used and we have a pretty fair amount of 2 meter, 1.25 meter simplex here and there as well as some 33CM simplex going on.

VHF SSB is somewhat active in our area, and there are a couple of events that spur even more activity several times a year but after they're over except for our group, honestly I guess everyone moves off to HF. Seems people are more interested in this meshtastic thing these days than actually keying a microphone most days. I guess we'll get on there and try and keep it going. All we can do is hope. We do have younger hams in our area showing interest now, and honestly those kids have no interest in the internet HF stuff and want to actually just talk on the radios and I think these days, that's great.

73, keep it going!

 

[alcahuete]

I don't understand or see the internet tie in lure myself.

Younger folks don't want to (or can't) put up huge antennas on their houses and cars. Like it or not, the days of putting up huge towers and antennas to talk to folks around the world are over. That's really the draw and popularity of a lot of these linked systems, Allstar, Echolink, etc. You buy a $15 'feng and talk with folks all over the place.

As a HF'er and contester, I don't like it. But that's where we're going as a hobby.

 

[K6GBW]

On a recent trip to Las Vegas I programmed in twenty repeaters. Over a period of two days I called out multiple times on multiple machines and never got a response. Here in Los Angeles we have a lot of high level repeaters and only a handful see regular use. Most of the machines are now closed or private. The old boy network gives frequency pairs to their friends so you see the same call sign on multiple mountain tops, but someone that wants to put up a new open repeater can't get coordinated for a pair. Weirdly, this has cause an increase in simplex traffic. 146.520 is actually quite busy here.

 

[K9KLC]

Younger folks don't want to (or can't) put up huge antennas on their houses

"Some" don't want to or can't. Recently our club had 10 or so Jr. High and early High school people get licensed, of the ones I've talked to (at least 6) NONE are interested in any sort of internet based communications. The collective answer was, we've done that for years on our phones, we certainly didn't get licensed to do it on ham radio. Fortunately the parents of these kids are willing to let them indulge in their hobbies and most already have at least some sort of external antenna up, at least for 2 meters or 70cm. One of the group was fortunate his father used to be into CB, and that antenna tuned up nicely for the Tech part of the 10 meter band and he's been able to bag multiple countries on 10, when it's been open. It's a joy to watch these kids go forward in the hobby honestly. Recently the school was lucky enough after a lot of work, to be one of the schools selected to work the ISS, and that was a HUGE success and prompted even more interest in the hobby among the people watching this take place. While I was not able to attend that event, I was able to listen at least to the downlink as it passed over, and my wife (club photographer for many occasions) was there to capture the photos and the smiles were pretty abundant among the kids.

On a recent trip to Las Vegas I programmed in twenty repeaters. Over a period of two days I called out multiple times on multiple machines and never got a response.

I've traveled some also and truthfully calling out on repeaters has occasionally yielded an answer but it's been pretty rare truthfully. I have once in a great once in a while, caught someone on 146.520 so, there's that I guess but, even at that, it's pretty rare.

146.520 is actually quite busy here.

In our area we occasionally use .52, and I monitor it often when not on a different VHF simplex frequency. Honestly we have a fair amount of traffic on 2 meter, 1.25 meter and 33cm simplex, at least enough to keep it alive. A group of us are on every morning on 1.25 meters and then we always try and shift to 33cm to see how the band is there. While not terribly exciting, around here, 33cm is uncharted territory and even hams licensed since the late 50s and early 60s have jumped on board to see what's up.

I guess it's up to us, (all hams) to keep the bands alive. I personally don't want to loose the bands we have in favor of some internet crap. Frankly ham radio was never meant to be a hobby for everyone, and truthfully it wasn't always meant to be easy. Like all hobbies, you get out of it, what you put into it.

 

[alcahuete]

"Some" don't want to or can't. Recently our club had 10 or so Jr. High and early High school people get licensed, of the ones I've talked to (at least 6) NONE are interested in any sort of internet based communications. The collective answer was, we've done that for years on our phones, we certainly didn't get licensed to do it on ham radio. Fortunately the parents of these kids are willing to let them indulge in their hobbies and most already have at least some sort of external antenna up, at least for 2 meters or 70cm. One of the group was fortunate his father used to be into CB, and that antenna tuned up nicely for the Tech part of the 10 meter band and he's been able to bag multiple countries on 10, when it's been open. It's a joy to watch these kids go forward in the hobby honestly. Recently the school was lucky enough after a lot of work, to be one of the schools selected to work the ISS, and that was a HUGE success and prompted even more interest in the hobby among the people watching this take place. While I was not able to attend that event, I was able to listen at least to the downlink as it passed over, and my wife (club photographer for many occasions) was there to capture the photos and the smiles were pretty abundant among the kids.

It's a little different out here in Socal. So many folks are in HOAs and packed in like rats. My club caters a great deal to new hams and getting new folks into the hobby, and our results are completely different from what you're seeing. A small handful have proper mobile setups, but for the most part, they're all using handhelds, including at home. So you're basically stuck...you can have a crappy signal sitting at home with your Baofeng, and be limited to the amount of repeaters you can use, or you can go through Allstar or one of the DMR networks and be full quieting on every repeater. That's what we're facing out here, and since California has by far the largest number of hams out of any state (5 times more than Illinois, for example) you can see where things are going.

 

[K6GBW]

That, and the fact that repeater sites are getting harder and harder to come by. The ones that are available are getting really expensive. As for the HOA thing, yeah that's a pain too. The wife and I keep talking about moving from the L.A. area to something more suburban, but the HOA costs and restrictions are a real concern.

 

[K9KLC]

That's what we're facing out here, and since California has by far the largest number of hams out of any state (5 times more than Illinois, for example) you can see where things are going.

Of course I can see where they're going there. I'd just hope others don't follow what's going on there, if they have the room and inclination to still stay with OTA transmissions rather than internet HF. I've been S-9 all across the world on the internet since 1992 using various VOIP stuff, never even thought I'd want it to replace ham radio. As I said earlier in this post, ham is a wonderful and widely diversified hobby. Do what you do and thanks for helping new hams get their feet wet in any aspect of the hobby. In this day and age, any interest is better than no interest and you never know what they'll do after they get their license!

 

[N4DES]

There are probably twice as many licensed hams in the US now as there were in 1991, but less than half the activity.

The turnover of the licensees is tremendous though, QRZ has a running tab on the turnover and good possibility these licensees haven't been active for years...

expired by QRZ Ham Radio

World's leading amateur radio web site with news, technical articles, discussions, practice exams and more.

www.qrz.com

EXPIRED! How to avoid losing your license...

The USA Callsign database contains about 750,000 listings and at any given moment, approximately 30,000 of these callsigns are expired! Over 1,000 old callsigns are returned to the unused pool each month!

 

[N4DES]

I'll go for the flip side of this coin...Frankly, If you watch any of the DMR dashboards, you'll see that well over 90% are coming into the system via the internet.

Agree, I see the same watching the C-Bridge my DMR repeater is attached to. Our local DMR TG 561 (like our area code) is the most popular locally, multi-casted on 4 repeaters, and even out preforms the analog repeaters that used to be non-stop during the morning and afternoon drive-times. The only way you know that something is still active on the frequency is by the hourly controller voice announcement.

 

[K9KLC]

Agree, I see the same watching the C-Bridge my DMR repeater is attached to. Our local DMR TG 561 (like our area code) is the most popular locally, multi-casted on 4 repeaters, and even out preforms the analog repeaters that used to be non-stop during the morning and afternoon drive-times. The only way you know that something is still active on the frequency is by the hourly controller voice announcement.

We've got a pretty good DMR repeater about 20 ish miles east of me and I'm about the only one that uses it. It's on the Chicago c bridge so we're somewhat limited but we did get several groups added for use. Once in a while I do catch a couple guys on local 9 (our local stay on the local repeater system) but not too often. It actually outdoes most of the analog stuff from that same area. Several local people use the same talk groups on that machine and while they can easily hit it with an HT they seem to go for the hotspots. Oh well. It is what it is I guess.

73- Greg.

 

[Spider255]

It does make me wonder why people bother getting licensed. I will give it another year and if nothing picks up then I'm selling all my gear and moving on. I'm kinda hoping 2 meters picks up during summer but if not time to sell up and move on.

May as well let the CBers use two meters if Hams aren't going to use it, either that or Ofcom take it back. Two meters is quite desirable and 70cms has become the band for low powered devices.

 

[K9KLC]

It does make me wonder why people bother getting licensed. I will give it another year and if nothing picks up then I'm selling all my gear and moving on. I'm kinda hoping 2 meters picks up during summer but if not time to sell up and move on.

What you speak of, is not always indicative of all areas however... We've got activity in my area. And if I can't find anything locally, I switch to HF, there's always stuff going on there. If you're limiting yourself to 2 meter FM however, I'm not sure that's really much to base it on however at that, we have 2 meter FM activity in my area.