Making the most of whats left of the VHF/UHF bands

[K6GBW]

Ofcom...so you must be in the UK? I've noticed that 2 meter/440 is kind of situational. Drives times, special events, disasters it lights up. But K9KLC is right, for daily chatting HF is pretty awesome. If you are in the UK then you'd have all of Europe to talk to, and you can do it with a pretty marginal antenna. Here in SoCal I live in a state that is 760 miles long and 250 miles wide. I'm doing good just to talk to my neighboring states!

 

[Spider255]

What you speak of, is not always indicative of all areas however... We've got activity in my area. And if I can't find anything locally, I switch to HF, there's always stuff going on there. If you're limiting yourself to 2 meter FM however, I'm not sure that's really much to base it on however at that, we have 2 meter FM activity in my area.

I would love to operate HF but I don't pick up much at all in my area, too much noise and interference, and I rarely make any contacts on HF. I only ever hear the big power stations. I listen on the websdr mainly now. A lot of my HF stuff I've sold, I did try for several years and VHF/UHF were really the only bands that worked for me.

 

[dlwtrunked]

I don't really agree with this because if that was the case, Ham Radio would have been dead long ago.

People still buy vinyl records? manufactures are still making 2/70 transceivers & antennas which some of it can cost a lot to buy. Marine Band, Air Band still use radio.... CB Radio here in London is active... yes active. People are still using HF.

I think its more to do with the modern lazy society that has developed over recent times where people just sit on there phones all day or play on there games console and not bother to do or achieve anything else.

Also there are lots of "young people" getting there foundation license at least here in the UK but none are ever on air. There is also an increasing lack of social skills today among today's generation. .

Actually, I know a lot of younger licensed hams who do not get on the air here (U.S) because they do not like the lack of social skills in the older hams. I am 72 myself and agree with their point about many older hams that I see.

 

[K9KLC]

Actually, I know a lot of younger licensed hams who do not get on the air here (U.S) because they do not like the lack of social skills in the older hams. I am 72 myself and agree with their point about many older hams that I see.

This I agree with. I'm 70 but even not being the oldest in our club we still manage to get them on the air. The problem isn't only "old age" I've seen repeaters just be snobbish and not welcome those in their little group. We're lucky for the most part here in our area. Not too many are like that.

 

[merlin]

I think that may be the easy explanation, but not the right one.
While there will probably always be those that are interested in amateur radio, it doesn't really offer much to most people. 50 years ago it was a great way to communicate. But now, there's better tools available to everyone that don't require a license or taking a test on antique technology.

I can relate to that. My science teacher was also a kam radio operator and held a class after school for younger people to get exposed to amateur radio. that clas was not small, and the newbies were like "WOW. you can talk around the world with radio". Today, such a class may never get enough interest to exist. Talk around the world ? ,,so what.

 

[mmckenna]

Talk around the world ? ,,so what.

Exactly.

Technology has moved on and people have much better tools in their hands/pockets to fill this role. The "when all else fails" thing, well, failed. Yes, cell networks can fail, but no where near as often as some cranky old ham wants you to think. Personally, I'd put more trust in a professionally set up/installed/configured cell site than someone with a $20 radio and a passing grade on a multiple choice test.

As I've said before, amateur radio needs to up its game. Problem, is there's too much dead weight anchoring it to the distant past.

Something -will- change. It'll either be the slow demise of the hobby, or it'll be a massive change that makes it relevant again. Problem is, there's to many holding the hobby back for personal reasons.

 

[Spider255]

Exactly.

Technology has moved on and people have much better tools in their hands/pockets to fill this role. The "when all else fails" thing, well, failed. Yes, cell networks can fail, but no where near as often as some cranky old ham wants you to think. Personally, I'd put more trust in a professionally set up/installed/configured cell site than someone with a $20 radio and a passing grade on a multiple choice test.

As I've said before, amateur radio needs to up its game. Problem, is there's too much dead weight anchoring it to the distant past.

Something -will- change. It'll either be the slow demise of the hobby, or it'll be a massive change that makes it relevant again. Problem is, there's to many holding the hobby back for personal reasons.

How would the hobby up its game if everything is now internet/smart phone based? I'd say it can't because the Ham radio hobby is a past time but then saying that we still have DMR and modern flashy HF sets which aren't exactly old tech... The hobby is a bit like those who like old train sets I suppose.

I think there is a lot more to it going on like the change of society and the social aspect of it, people being to shy to pick up the mic or not knowing what to talk about... its not just in hobbies like Ham Radio this is occurring but its also happening in other areas of life & platforms. There is a lack of social interaction today.

 

[kc2asb]

How would the hobby up its game if everything is now internet/smart phone based?

Exactly. It would no longer be "radio".

" people have much better tools in their hands/pockets to fill this role."

So, then there is nothing to entice newcomers to the hobby because radio simply cannot compete with these "better tools"? Obtaining a license, and purchasing a radio/antenna is no longer needed to communicate locally or around the world. In that case, there is no path forward for amateur radio. It's become redundant, and the hobby's demise will not just be due to some "dead weight" anchoring it to the past.

For me, the appeal of radio is that you can communicate without the need to pay tribute each month to the big telecom companies. In a major crisis, I would trust a properly-configured amateur radio station with emergency power over big telecom's infrastructure any day.

I was enticed into the hobby by the "magic" of radio. My father had an old AM/FM multi-band radio that also picked up aircraft and public safety. When I was about 10 or 11, I picked it up one day and switched it to the air/public safety band and started hearing the voices of pilots flying overhead to Newark and JFK airports. I was instantly hooked. That was about 1985, and it lead to a hobby that I still enjoy today.

Can radio still seem like "magic" to younger people today? If they already have better tools at their disposal, the answer is a resounding "No".

 

[mmckenna]

So, then there is nothing to entice newcomers to the hobby because radio simply cannot compete with these "better tools"? Obtaining a license, and purchasing a radio/antenna is no longer needed to communicate locally or around the world.

Right, it lost its exclusivity.

There will always be those that will be interested in amateur radio. I just don't think there will be enough to continuously justify the amount of dedicated spectrum it has.

I'm still fascinated by radio, and am fortunate enough to get paid well to run systems. I'll likely become more active when I retire.

 

[mmckenna]

How would the hobby up its game if everything is now internet/smart phone based? I'd say it can't because the Ham radio hobby is a past time but then saying that we still have DMR and modern flashy HF sets which aren't exactly old tech... The hobby is a bit like those who like old train sets I suppose.

That's a good question, and I don't think anyone knows. We can guess, but who knows?

Like I said above, there will always be those that are interested, but the justification for the dedicated spectrum is going to be challenged.

I think there is a lot more to it going on like the change of society and the social aspect of it, people being to shy to pick up the mic or not knowing what to talk about... its not just in hobbies like Ham Radio this is occurring but its also happening in other areas of life & platforms. There is a lack of social interaction today.

Society always changes, always will. I don't think this point in time is any different than the others.

 

[kc2asb]

There will always be those that will be interested in amateur radio. I just don't think there will be enough to continuously justify the amount of dedicated spectrum it has.

I agree. The amateur radio bands above 6 meters are especially valuable. Also, as someone said above in a previous post, there are still people into model trains, so perhaps there always will be interest in amateur radio. Hopefully, enough for manufacturers to continue producing equipment!

I'm still fascinated by radio,

Some event or some person must have sparked that fascination. People under a certain age do not even listen to radio anymore, and radios are becoming less common in households. The opportunities to spark that "magical moment" are becoming far and few between. I grew up in the late 70's/80's. There were already technologies competing for our attention in the form of computers and video game systems, but they were not in a position to threaten radio's relevance.

As I related above, the voices coming out of an old multi-band radio were "cooler" to me than the video game systems I and my friends had.
Will a kid today think hearing a distant station on a radio is cooler than streaming it through a smartphone? On the surface, it's two devices pumping out sounds that come out of thin air.

Indeed, the hobby's slow but certain demise might be the only conclusion if we follow this line of reasoning methodically and honestly.

 

[K9KLC]

Right, it lost its exclusivity.

This...Exactly this.

 

[Spider255]

Exactly. It would no longer be "radio".

" people have much better tools in their hands/pockets to fill this role."

So, then there is nothing to entice newcomers to the hobby because radio simply cannot compete with these "better tools"? Obtaining a license, and purchasing a radio/antenna is no longer needed to communicate locally or around the world. In that case, there is no path forward for amateur radio. It's become redundant, and the hobby's demise will not just be due to some "dead weight" anchoring it to the past.

For me, the appeal of radio is that you can communicate without the need to pay tribute each month to the big telecom companies. In a major crisis, I would trust a properly-configured amateur radio station with emergency power over big telecom's infrastructure any day.

I was enticed into the hobby by the "magic" of radio. My father had an old AM/FM multi-band radio that also picked up aircraft and public safety. When I was about 10 or 11, I picked it up one day and switched it to the air/public safety band and started hearing the voices of pilots flying overhead to Newark and JFK airports. I was instantly hooked. That was about 1985, and it lead to a hobby that I still enjoy today.

Can radio still seem like "magic" to younger people today? If they already have better tools at their disposal, the answer is a resounding "No".

I suppose you do have a point...

For me personally it was never about having better tools but more enjoyment of making things work and the enjoyment of building antennas, having different radios and experiencing the characteristics of different frequencies was fun for me but it didn't stop there, I also enjoyed hill topping to see how far I could go with 5 watts and a hand held radio and I was always amazed and fascinated by it. I guess there isn't any appeal to this now in today's world.

I also liked taking other kinds of radios with me up to hill tops to see what distant broadcast radio stations I could pick up.

 

[kc2asb]

I suppose you do have a point...

For me personally it was never about having better tools but more enjoyment of making things work and the enjoyment of building antennas, having different radios and experiencing the characteristics of different frequencies was fun for me but it didn't stop there, I also enjoyed hill topping to see how far I could go with 5 watts and a hand held radio and I was always amazed and fascinated by it. I guess there isn't any appeal to this now in today's world.

I also liked taking other kinds of radios with me up to hill tops to see what distant broadcast radio stations I could pick up.

Everything you said above is what makes this hobby great in my eyes. I love the experimentation and adventure also. There is no thrill sending a text or speaking to someone 5,000 miles away on a phone. Doing it with a radio, yes! I remember trying microwave communication with a fellow ham using the horns from old radar detectors, going to the highest point in NJ to work HF with the same buddy, and waking up early countless times just to catch elusive stations like Radio Tahiti.

If there is a way to bring the appeal of amateur radio to young people, it's going to take smarter and more dynamic people than I will ever be.

 

[Boombox]

I equate the ham (and SWL, DX) hobby to the astronomy hobby. When I was a kid a lot of us wanted telescopes. I still have mine. I use it maybe once a year. There still are people out there who use them, although telescopes are more computerized than they used to be.

The problem is, why use a telescope to see Saturn when you've got much better images on the internet? Same thing with looking a nebulae (which are hard enough to see in many situations), or even the moon.

People still buy and use telescopes, but trying to get younger people interested in looking at a bright, oblong dot called Saturn isn't going to have the same pull as seeing images off the internet, where you can see everything, just on your smartphone screen. Another similar hobby is probably fishing. Why go through the bother of baiting a hook when you can just buy fish already caught and filleted at the supermarket?

The fun, though -- whether it's radio or astronomy or fishing, is in the process.

It's the same with the ham radio hobby. The appeal partially is talking across the world (or listening to stations from the other side of the world, in the case of SWL's like myself). The other appeal is using the ionosphere to do it with (or tropo, if you're into VHF/UHF). Using nature to hear and/or talk over long distances. The ionosphere is sort of like the poor man's satellite. It's fascinating to observe the vagaries of propagation and to hear the F, D, and E layers in action.

Now, is this really going to appeal to enough newcomers to get them interested in the radio hobby? I can't answer that. Internet is instant, in most cases, and fairly dependable for all sorts of entertainment. Hard to say that about hobbies like radio/ham/DXing or telescope astronomy.

But that doesn't mean that people should give up on trying to promote the hobby.

 

[kc2asb]

@Boombox - great analogy with astronomy. The internet provides instant gratification, which seems to be what Americans expect and demand. (overnight / same day shipping anyone?) Hearing a distant station, talking to someone in another country or seeing a distant planet or star takes some thought and planning, while the internet can provide it with a few clicks.

I agree about continuing to promote the hobby. If we give up, then its demise is a certainty.

 

[K9KLC]

I suppose you do have a point...

For me personally it was never about having better tools but more enjoyment of making things work and the enjoyment of building antennas, having different radios and experiencing the characteristics of different frequencies was fun for me but it didn't stop there, I also enjoyed hill topping to see how far I could go with 5 watts and a hand held radio and I was always amazed and fascinated by it. I guess there isn't any appeal to this now in today's world.

I also liked taking other kinds of radios with me up to hill tops to see what distant broadcast radio stations I could pick up.

We still do this somewhat. Lately 33cm is a new endeavor for some of us in this area. We're trying to discover just how that band works compared to 70cm. There's a fellow that runs around with an HT, and we'll compare 33cm to 70cm with him on his HT and at my base station. How far can we go, which is better, is this location better than that one, what if I drive up this hill? That sort of thing.

POTA guys do all kinds of stuff QRP as well as others. It takes time, patience and even perhaps a little bit of skill in listening and transmitting, to do some of that.

Trust me, that appeal is still out there. Guys up in the microwave bands put antennas in the beds of pickup trucks and go out and see what they can pull off with lower power and still make the contact.

Hill topping is still fun, I do it often just to see what I can and cannot do from various locations. Lately several of us have done a lot of that seeing where we can get into a repeater on 33cm that is low power. I've actually been asked "are you sure that's where you're at" when getting into it from various hill tops (what little we have of that in South Western IL) It's been fun.

 

[K9KLC]

@Boombox - great analogy with astronomy. The internet provides instant gratification, which seems to be what Americans expect and demand. (overnight / same day shipping anyone?) Hearing a distant station, talking to someone in another country or seeing a distant planet or star takes some thought and planning, while the internet can provide it with a few clicks.

I agree about continuing to promote the hobby. If we give up, then its demise is a certainty.

This is correct. I do like same day/overnight shipping and I even listen to some broadcastify feeds on my computer to listen to various things I cannot receive on my equipment here. Other than a brief stent where I helped some friends get set up, I still confine my ham stuff to antenna to antenna with very very very rare exceptions. Those are if I happen to be out, see something during a storm, and am in a location I cannot report to my local county weather net repeater. I think I've done that twice in 10 years. (or however long it's been since they had an echo link connection) Other than that, I report live OTA to them. I'm one of "those guys" I do not disconnect my equipment during a storm.

Promoting the hobby is on the top of my list and we've had a good response from new younger people in our area.

 

[cactus360]

I equate the ham (and SWL, DX) hobby to the astronomy hobby. When I was a kid a lot of us wanted telescopes. I still have mine. I use it maybe once a year. There still are people out there who use them, although telescopes are more computerized than they used to be.

The problem is, why use a telescope to see Saturn when you've got much better images on the internet? Same thing with looking a nebulae (which are hard enough to see in many situations), or even the moon.

People still buy and use telescopes, but trying to get younger people interested in looking at a bright, oblong dot called Saturn isn't going to have the same pull as seeing images off the internet, where you can see everything, just on your smartphone screen. Another similar hobby is probably fishing. Why go through the bother of baiting a hook when you can just buy fish already caught and filleted at the supermarket?

The fun, though -- whether it's radio or astronomy or fishing, is in the process.

It's the same with the ham radio hobby. The appeal partially is talking across the world (or listening to stations from the other side of the world, in the case of SWL's like myself). The other appeal is using the ionosphere to do it with (or tropo, if you're into VHF/UHF). Using nature to hear and/or talk over long distances. The ionosphere is sort of like the poor man's satellite. It's fascinating to observe the vagaries of propagation and to hear the F, D, and E layers in action.

Now, is this really going to appeal to enough newcomers to get them interested in the radio hobby? I can't answer that. Internet is instant, in most cases, and fairly dependable for all sorts of entertainment. Hard to say that about hobbies like radio/ham/DXing or telescope astronomy.

But that doesn't mean that people should give up on trying to promote the hobby.

Astronomy is an excellent analogy. While todays telescopes are relatively inexpensive and of pretty good quality few people still use them compared to when I was a kid. Although advances in technology, convenience and capability still help attract people.

Some of us still enjoy the pleasure of breaking out a quality scope and tracking down objects to directly observe. Or doing some astrophotography. Will be the first to admit I often use direct observation, online imaging and taking advantage of astronomy apps to get the best of all methods.

I am not a HAM for transmission purposes, strictly monitor the bands for information. But I know enough HAMS to know there are plenty of HAM license holders who remain mostly silent and anonymous in the community and want to keep it that way. They use HAM exclusively for family / friend comm groups in case of emergency.

So I suspect there is more interest in HAM than people realize. It's just that many folks strictly see it as just one of multiple methods of group communication which todays availably and pricing make pretty easy to get into.