rf_patriot200
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I Wish the 4m band was legal to use here in the U.S. That would be a Blast !! Have fun Spidey !!
Making the most of whats left of the VHF/UHF bands
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YalekW
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I didnt even know 4 meters existed. Thought that was allocated to TV channels.
rf_patriot200
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It's a Common ham band in the UK, similiar to our 2 meter band. 4 meters is 70-74 mhz. if I'm not mistaken. there are numerous models of radios that can be ordered for the 4 meter band, but not legal in the USA.
There was never an amateur radio allocation in this band as you mentioned. There were some voice ops, however, mostly from low power radios in warehouses and similar.
Crazy thing - I have a 1950's 'Police Alarm" tunable monitor radio that covers 70-76MHz. I never heard of this band being used by public safety.
mmckenna
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UK amateurs have access to 70.0 to 70.5MHz as part of the 4 meter band.
US amateurs do not have access to this band.
In the US, 70-75MHz is part of the LMR band, and was often used for inter-site links, control links, some centralized clock systems, etc.
Spider255
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That is correct. The FM portion of the 4 meter band goes from 70.300 to 70.500 MHz and below that its AM/SSB modes 70.0 MHz to 70.300 MHz.
It was once known as the homebrew band where people would make use of Taxi radio transceivers / Low Band PMR gear for use on 4 meters, radios like the old low band Westminster Pies covered the AM portion of the 4 meter band. Home brew transverters were often used so that you can use a CB/10 meter multi mode radio from either 27MHz/28MHz for AM/SSB modes on 70MHz.
It was once known as the homebrew band where people would make use of Taxi radio transceivers / Low Band PMR gear for use on 4 meters, radios like the old low band Westminster Pies covered the AM portion of the 4 meter band. Home brew transverters were often used so that you can use a CB/10 meter multi mode radio from either 27MHz/28MHz for AM/SSB modes on 70MHz.
Correct. I should have specified US amateurs. My mistake and thanks for correcting.
Spider255
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I did hear a rumor that the U.S may be getting the 4 meter band but I don't know if that would happen or not. Many other countries have been allocated the 4 meter band in recent years.
Edit: It does not appear that US radio amateurs will gain a new band at 70 MHz anytime soon. The FCC has denied a Petition for Rule Making filed earlier this year by Glen E. Zook, K9STH, of Richardson, Texas, seeking to add a 4 meter band to Amateur Radio's inventory of VHF allocations.
The U.S. will likely not be getting the 4-meter band (70 MHz) in the near future. A petition to allocate this band to amateur radio was previously denied by the FCC due to concerns about potential interference with existing television stations.
I guess its the same reason why the UK can't have the 1.25 meter band because of DAB Radio.
Edit: It does not appear that US radio amateurs will gain a new band at 70 MHz anytime soon. The FCC has denied a Petition for Rule Making filed earlier this year by Glen E. Zook, K9STH, of Richardson, Texas, seeking to add a 4 meter band to Amateur Radio's inventory of VHF allocations.
The U.S. will likely not be getting the 4-meter band (70 MHz) in the near future. A petition to allocate this band to amateur radio was previously denied by the FCC due to concerns about potential interference with existing television stations.
I guess its the same reason why the UK can't have the 1.25 meter band because of DAB Radio.
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mmckenna
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Years ago there were some experimental licenses granted to a few US amateurs so they could test propagation across the Atlantic. Not sure much else happened with those.
Since 72-76MHz is assigned to public safety/commercial users, it's unlikely that band would be opened up to US amateurs.
54-72MHz is assigned to broadcast use (old TV channels), so maybe there is a chance that 70-70.5 could get reassigned to hams. However, hams are having a hard time utilizing the spectrum they already have, and it would be difficult for them to make a valid case to the FCC that they actually need more. The experimentation license is probably the best option, but those are not easy to get.
Spider255
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I would have thought that most in the U.S are using Satellite TV services like Direct TV or the popular Dish Network, and cable services like AT&T U-verse if that is still going or named something else now. When I was in the US in 2012, nobody watched regular TV not that anything could be picked up on old analog TV there. I'd imagine the old TV transmitters will be switched off at some point.
Here in the UK the old analog TV transmitters got switched off years ago and new Digital TV "Free View" replaced it and got moved up to 800MHz and beyond. Its possible the same thing will happen in the US or may just end up being cable & satellite services over there. If old TV is the only reason why the FCC wont grant the 4 meter band in the US then there is hope that the US could one day get the band. As for public safety frequencies, I don't think any are near 70.0 MHz to 70.5 MHz.
The same problem happens here in the UK with amateurs not using the spectrum they already have.
Here in the UK the old analog TV transmitters got switched off years ago and new Digital TV "Free View" replaced it and got moved up to 800MHz and beyond. Its possible the same thing will happen in the US or may just end up being cable & satellite services over there. If old TV is the only reason why the FCC wont grant the 4 meter band in the US then there is hope that the US could one day get the band. As for public safety frequencies, I don't think any are near 70.0 MHz to 70.5 MHz.
The same problem happens here in the UK with amateurs not using the spectrum they already have.
mmckenna
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10 years ago, the FCC shot down a US 4 meter band amateur allocation:
www.arrl.org
54-72MHz is a nice big slice of spectrum, and fragmenting it for experimentation by a handful of US hams isn't good stewardship of the resource.
FCC could make it a secondary allocation, but some hams seem to have difficulty understanding that.
Where "Mid band" was common in Europe and equipment was available easily, it's a bit more difficult in the US to find equipment. There isn't a lot o commercial gear on that band anymore and the big ham radio manufacturers haven't embraced it in other parts of the world (UK, parts of Europe and Africa).
The Chinese could produce equipment (and already do), but the last thing we need is a secondary allocation with a bunch of crappy radios causing interference for no real good reason than bragging rights.
Hams have more spectrum than they need to play on without adding more to splinter the user base.
FCC Turns Down Petition to Create a 4 Meter Band in the US
The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.
54-72MHz is a nice big slice of spectrum, and fragmenting it for experimentation by a handful of US hams isn't good stewardship of the resource.
FCC could make it a secondary allocation, but some hams seem to have difficulty understanding that.
Where "Mid band" was common in Europe and equipment was available easily, it's a bit more difficult in the US to find equipment. There isn't a lot o commercial gear on that band anymore and the big ham radio manufacturers haven't embraced it in other parts of the world (UK, parts of Europe and Africa).
The Chinese could produce equipment (and already do), but the last thing we need is a secondary allocation with a bunch of crappy radios causing interference for no real good reason than bragging rights.
Hams have more spectrum than they need to play on without adding more to splinter the user base.
Bingo! This exactly. You can hear the 11m CB and Outbands hopping during band openings, while 10m is a ghost town.
mmckenna
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Digital TV broadcasting is alive and well and many use it. I do….
Many do use cable TV, satellite and streaming, but not everyone. While broadcast TV is feeling the pinch, they are still profitable, and that's pretty much how most things are judged over here. Logic doesn't apply if there's profit to be made. Just look at our health care system….
Compression of the TV bands has been happening, and this low VHF band may go away at some point.
But the hams don't really have much of a case, other than the "We WANT it" spoiled brat type people. Like I said above, 8 MHz of low band spectrum may find better use for other services and fragmenting it to appease a handful of hobbyists that want to play on it isn't a good use of resources.
Yeah, and that's why they'd have difficulty laying claim to this spectrum. FCC made it clear back in 2014 that they didn't see the value in it.
I've been a ham for decades, and they way hams treat the resources they've been given is appalling. They'll scream and sob if someone even thinks of stepping foot on "their" spectrum, but they won't do a damn thing to use it responsibly themselves. Us hams do not deserve it, plain and simple. When hams start behaving appropriately, then maybe…..
Another one Europeans have that North Americans don't is the 8 meter band. 39.9 to 40.7 MHz.
I sometimes fire up WSJT, point my antenna there, and listen for any FT8 that might leak across the Atlantic on 40.662.
I sometimes fire up WSJT, point my antenna there, and listen for any FT8 that might leak across the Atlantic on 40.662.
I hope I live long enough to see this but at 70 doubtful. I know a lot of good hams, guess I'm fortunate but I've met some not so good ones too.
Spider255
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We as Hams are very lucky to have all those bands and modes and Ham radio used to be an experimental hobby so different frequencies were needed to experiment with but now days Ham radio has changed quite a bit with only a few HF bands that get used while other bands are dying or have died a death.
There aren't many of us left that still use simplex past HF sadly.
I guess what could happen if US hams want the use of 4 meters "although not quite the same" is to make use of the 6 meter band and have a simplex gateway that comes out onto the 4 meter band in the UK/Europe. Keep the gateway separate from 2/70 so that its unique to 4 & 6 meters only.
I heard that the 1.25 meter band in the US never gets used. The UK don't have that band.
Many of us grew up in the days of walkie talkies, general radio when nobody had mobile phones. These days phones and internet devices has replaced most radio communications unfortunately and new Hams that come into the hobby lose interest very quickly with simplex unless its HF many just go for phone apps like zello to use freestar.
There aren't many of us left that still use simplex past HF sadly.
I guess what could happen if US hams want the use of 4 meters "although not quite the same" is to make use of the 6 meter band and have a simplex gateway that comes out onto the 4 meter band in the UK/Europe. Keep the gateway separate from 2/70 so that its unique to 4 & 6 meters only.
I heard that the 1.25 meter band in the US never gets used. The UK don't have that band.
Many of us grew up in the days of walkie talkies, general radio when nobody had mobile phones. These days phones and internet devices has replaced most radio communications unfortunately and new Hams that come into the hobby lose interest very quickly with simplex unless its HF many just go for phone apps like zello to use freestar.
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The title of this thread seems like a poke in the ribs. Like 2m, 1.25, 70Cm, 33 CM are going down the drain.
I don't think so. These bands have been around as long as ham and not going anywhere.
They are changing, what with new technology and operators. I have seen digital modes come to being. I go to ham swap meets and see these
CCRs in peoples pockets.
Here in my town, there are only 45 hams in a 50 mile radius, 2 I know of now silent key. Not much activity save for the clubs roll call and some chatter.
I think the global amateur down turn here is getting people interested in ham radio. this generation age 7 and up everyone has cell phnes now.
Domestic ham markets are going under for Japanese and Chinese import. Is Henry radio still around, I know they had 2 huge stores in SoCal.
HRO, how many left. I saw the demise of JJ Glass Electronics, 10,000 sq/ft warehouse of surplus radio and equipment.
I often wonder where the experimenters, DIYers have gone, not a peep about "hey, I am biasing some new RF transistors" or "Bill, can I use your break and puch for this new chassis?"
Just my thoughts.
I don't think so. These bands have been around as long as ham and not going anywhere.
They are changing, what with new technology and operators. I have seen digital modes come to being. I go to ham swap meets and see these
CCRs in peoples pockets.
Here in my town, there are only 45 hams in a 50 mile radius, 2 I know of now silent key. Not much activity save for the clubs roll call and some chatter.
I think the global amateur down turn here is getting people interested in ham radio. this generation age 7 and up everyone has cell phnes now.
Domestic ham markets are going under for Japanese and Chinese import. Is Henry radio still around, I know they had 2 huge stores in SoCal.
HRO, how many left. I saw the demise of JJ Glass Electronics, 10,000 sq/ft warehouse of surplus radio and equipment.
I often wonder where the experimenters, DIYers have gone, not a peep about "hey, I am biasing some new RF transistors" or "Bill, can I use your break and puch for this new chassis?"
Just my thoughts.
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Yea, but we don't have 4 or 8 meters either. You get around the large metropolis, there is considerable activity on 1.25. Some VARA, packet.
Tune up 6 meters, you may get some FT8 your way.
KF0NYL
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Here in the US, the military still uses 30 MHz to 88 MHz. Amateur radio is secondary to the military and other government agencies. Plus the analog TV stations in that section too.
The older analog military radios had a low band and a high band. Low band was from 30 MHz to 50 MHz and high band was 51 MHz to 70 MHz.
We had to be really careful when teaching basic trainees how to use the PRC-77 radios. We had to keep them on the low band as the local TV stations were in the high band. We had a trainee key up one time on the high band and interfered with a local TV station. Needless to say we received a not so nice phone call from the TV station manager.
There was a discussion about giving 46 MHz and 49 MHz to GMRS over on the MYGMRS forum. Again those frequencies are allocated to military use. I know there were old wireless consumer products that worked on those frequencies but they were secondary.
And now we have a company wanting the 70cm band for commercial use. And not too long ago there was another company wanting a portion of the 900 MHz band that covers LORA/Meshtastic. Let's see if we lose 70cm and 900 MHz like we did with a portion of the 1.25m band.
We need to start using what bands we currently have before losing them. Adding new bands is not going to happen in my opinion.
The older analog military radios had a low band and a high band. Low band was from 30 MHz to 50 MHz and high band was 51 MHz to 70 MHz.
We had to be really careful when teaching basic trainees how to use the PRC-77 radios. We had to keep them on the low band as the local TV stations were in the high band. We had a trainee key up one time on the high band and interfered with a local TV station. Needless to say we received a not so nice phone call from the TV station manager.
There was a discussion about giving 46 MHz and 49 MHz to GMRS over on the MYGMRS forum. Again those frequencies are allocated to military use. I know there were old wireless consumer products that worked on those frequencies but they were secondary.
And now we have a company wanting the 70cm band for commercial use. And not too long ago there was another company wanting a portion of the 900 MHz band that covers LORA/Meshtastic. Let's see if we lose 70cm and 900 MHz like we did with a portion of the 1.25m band.
We need to start using what bands we currently have before losing them. Adding new bands is not going to happen in my opinion.
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