Mammoth Mtn. Ski Area Identifying Talkgroups

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
One more talkgroup I forgot to submit is 9005. I think the 9000 group is for subscribers and one fairly active talkgroup on it is 9005, which appears to be a company in town called "Doorstep Deliveries." I've also received some hits on Talkgroup 9008, but haven't IDed the business.
 

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
One more talkgroup I forgot to submit is 9005. I think the 9000 group is for subscribers and one fairly active talkgroup on it is 9005, which appears to be a company in town called "Doorstep Deliveries." I've also received some hits on Talkgroup 9008, but haven't IDed the business.

This is not a food delivery service as I first thought. It is a ski renter and ski service (including tuning) delivery service. I made a database submission reflecting such. I suspect which business this is, but won't submit it until I know for sure.
 

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
Just thought I would attempt to post this for those who listen to the Mammoth Mountain Ski Area radio system. It is a list of terms and slang you will hear on this system. Many of these are used ski industry wide, but as always, there can be local uses unique to a single ski area. Disregard any notations to a "Scanner Reference," as this refers to a unpublished document of mine, which will never be published or released. The era of paper guides ended a couple of decades ago.

Ski Area Terminology, Slang, and Lingo (used almost industry wide)

These terms are shown in this section, rather than the Scanner Reference for convenience. They are unique to monitoring ski areas. Lift terminology included is only that which is heard on the radio and has been simplified as much as possible. Avalanche terminology is contained in the Scanner Reference, as it applies to more than just ski areas.

AED: Automatic External Defibrillator (See Scanner Reference page xx)

Alpine: Refers to skiing done at developed ski areas on groomed slopes using skis equipped with bindings in which the entire boot is locked down on the ski. Also known as downhill skiing.

Anti-rollback: A mechanical system, which prevents the weight of passengers from making the lift roll backwards in case the engine or gearbox fails.

APU: Auxiliary Power Unit. A backup power system to run lifts in the event of a power failure.

Beeper: See “AVALANCHE BEACON” on Scanner Reference page xx.

Boo: Bamboo sticks. Used to hold hand charge explosives for avalanche triggering, and for many other uses such as holding up fences, marking hazards, placing signs, etc.

Bull Wheel: The large diameter sheave (pulley) at the ends of lift, one of which is powered (usually the lower called a drive bull wheel) and one which may be a tension sheave or bull wheel [adding the proper amount of tension to the rope (cable)], or may be just a return for the rope (a fixed return bull wheel). People who do not off-load the chair when they are supposed to are referred to as “going around the bull wheel”.

Bump: Moving ski patrol personnel from one station to another to provide variety.

Bump(s) Mogul(s):. See “MOGUL”

Burrito: A waterproof blanket/tarp which is folded into a rescue sled. The burrito may contain some or all of the following items: first aid kit, splints, backboard, oxygen, or an AED.

Cable: See “WIRE ROPE”

Circuit(s), bypass: A circuit(s) that partially or entirely circumvents monitoring and remote signal inputs of a malfunctioning operating circuit to allow operation of the system under specific conditions.

Circuit(s), control power: The control power circuit(s) is a normally a de-energized circuit(s). When energized this circuit provides power to the operating control circuit.

Circuit(s), operating control: When energized these circuits provide power to all electrical control functions which start, stop, run, and control speed for the lift. If it is de-energized, the lift system will stop or remain at rest.

Cross-country Skiing: Uses relatively narrow, light skis, and light boots (usually leather), equipped with a binding that allows for heel lift. A forward kick and glide motion, which is very much like walking, is facilitated, and travel over flat, uphill, and downhill terrain is possible.

Counterweight: A weight used to maintain tension in the rope or a moving part.

Death Cookie: Compact, icy, chunks of snow often develop on a cats track and can be thrown off the cat’s route of travel. If it is not run over on subsequent passes of the cat, and broken up by the tiller, it will remain on the snow surface. Whether this happens on a downhill slope or on a groomed cross-country ski trail, when a ski hits this chunk, the resulting loss of control earns this object its name.

Deropement: When a wire rope leaves its intended position in the groove of a sheave or saddle.

Detachable: A lift where the chair or gondola car detaches from the rope by means of an automatic clamp. Enables slow loading and unloading at the terminals, while running the lift at a high speed.

Diagonal Stride: The traditional form of cross-country skiing where one ski and the opposite hand and pole are moved forward simultaneously, weight is placed on the ski and kicked backwards while the pole is thrust to the rear, providing a forward pushing force. As the pushed ski moves to the rear, the opposite unweighted ski glides forward, while the opposite hand and pole are lifted up and forward. As the opposite ski moves forward, both skis glide, thus the diagonal stride is often called “kick and glide”. Once the opposite ski is fully moved forward, the process is then completed for the other side of the body. The tip of the front ski and tail of the back ski form a diagonal line, thus the name of the technique.

Drive: The electronic circuitry that controls the amount of voltage sent to the primary motor of the lift and controls its speed. It is also connected to all of the lift’s safety devices, which shuts down the lift automatically if a problem occurs on the line or at the terminals.

Drive Terminal: Houses the motor gearbox, auxiliary engine, and drive and safety circuitry. It can either be on top or at the bottom of a lift (“top drive”, “bottom drive”). Top drive is a bit more energy efficient, but requires the expense of providing electrical service to the top of the lift, which is costly.

Fall Line: A line drawn down a slope in the direction of its maximum steepness.

First Aid Refusal: Skier or rider who declines to have first aid or an evaluation done.

Freshies: New powder snow fallen on a slope, or transported there by the wind from non-groomed areas.

Gearbox: The lift’s transmission, which transfers power from the motor to the bull wheel at the drive terminal.

Gill Net: Refers to the orange plastic fence which is placed to channel skiers and riders, slow them down, or to catch them or their equipment at the bottom of a slope, protecting those in line or in base facility areas.

Grip: Attaches the chair or car to the rope. They can be fixed or detachable.

Haul Rope: See “WIRE ROPE”.

Lift: Used here to refer to both chair lifts and gondolas.

Manual Reset Switch: Used to start the lift after it stops, due to a fault, and must be activated by the lift operator.

Magic Carpet: A brand name for a surface lift that is similar to a conveyor belt. Guests step into the surface, which is a continuous surface. Typically used in children’s instruction areas and located on very gentle slopes.

Magic Wand: Refers to the safety device, which is triggered by people who remain on the chair after passing the unloading ramp. When triggered it stops the lift as most chair lifts are not designed or built for people to ride downhill.

Maze: The area in which the guests gather waiting to get on a lift. Optimizes lift loading. More commonly known as a lift line.

Mogul: Bumps on a ski hill are formed when many skiers make turns, throwing loose snow up on the side of each turn. As additional skiers follow the tracks of the previous skier, these deposits eventually harden into a series of fairly evenly spaced, steep bumps, which make skiing a little more difficult. Grooming equipment smoothes these off at night, and they are reformed the next day. Some steep runs are left with moguls, for those who like the challenge of the bumps.

NNN: “New Nordic Norm” (Normal) A cross country ski binding where a rod on the front of the boot clips into a spring tensioned portion of the binding. This has largely replaced the older style three pin Nordic binding for cross country skis.

Nordic: Refers to cross-country skiing.

Over (his/her) Head: Indicates that a skier or rider has found himself or herself on a ski trail that is too steep or hard packed for the individual’s skill level to handle.

Over Speed Device: An electric or mechanical device that automatically detects lift speed in excess of that intended by the designer or operator.

Packer Bar: Mounted aft of the tiller across the rear of a snow cat. On the outside it resembles a metal culvert, but with parallel ridges and it turns as the cat moves forward, compacting the snow loosened by the tiller, using its own weight. The ridges form the “corduroy” appearance of freshly groomed snow.

Pieps: A brand of avalanche beacon. See “AVALANCHE BEACON” Scanner Reference, page xx.

Pinhead: Slang for a cross country or telemark skier. Refers to the three pin binding that used to be the standard on all cross country skis. See “THREE PINNER.”

Piston Bully: A brand of snow cat and groomer.

PSIA: Professional Ski Instructors of America. Among other functions certifies teaching methods, qualifications of instructors, and provides training curriculum.

Randonee (Ran-doe-ney): Refers to skis or skiing with skis that are, or almost are, downhill or alpine in design. The heel portion of the binding can be released for cross country travel and locked down for downhill skiing. Also known as “Alpine Touring.” A common joke among telemarkers is that “Randonee” is a French word for “can’t Telemark”.

Rider: Snowboarder.

Rope: See “WIRE ROPE”. Very few “rope tows” exist at ski areas anymore.

RPD: Rope Position Detector. A safety device, which ensures the rope, is properly aligned. It is essentially a metal detector, which can sense very small (but out of specifications) movements in the rope.

RPD Fault: When the wire rope is out of alignment the control station of the lift will indicate this.

Runaway: A loose ski or snowboard traveling downhill.

Safety Gate: A device that will automatically stop a lift when tripped by a passenger’s weight, contact, or passage. Is usually a light beam or fiberglass wand. Keeps the passenger from going all the way “around the bull wheel”.

SCR Silicone Controlled Rectifier: Converts the commercial AC (alternating current) for use by a DC (direct current) motor that provides power for the lift.

Sheaves: Pulleys or wheels grooved for rope. Weight bearing and guidance sheaves are most noticeable on lift towers, where some can make a distinctive noise. They are lined with a special type of rubber when the sheave wheel supports or depresses the rope.

Shot, Cut, and Cleared: Indicates that ski patrol personnel have used explosives on a slope, ski cut it, and the slope is ready for grooming, maintenance personnel, and/or guests. Ski cutting consists of long, slope wide traverses, in which the patroller jumps up and down on their skis to place a force in the snowpack and releasing any potential avalanches. “Cut and cleared” refers to avalanche evaluation and control without the use of explosives.

Skating: A method of cross-country skiing used primarily for racing that developed in the late 1970’s. The motion of the skis resembles ice-skating, uses shorter, stiffer skis, stiffer boots, and much longer poles than used in light touring skiing.

Skating Lane: A smooth, flat, groomed area, adjacent to the twin track grooming used for diagonal stride skiing.

Skier: A person using skis.

Skinny Skis: Cross-country skis, which are used for touring or mountaineering.

Sled: A plastic sled designed for carrying an injured person in a prone position, with or without a backboard. Towed behind a ski patroller using two handles at the end of poles that are attached to the top of the sled, resembling a tow bar. These handles can be chained together; enabling the patroller to place the sled in front on steep slopes, hands free, where sidestepping, or handing the sled to another down slope patroller, may be necessary. The bottom of the sled has fins, 3-4 inches in depth, enabling the sled to be controlled.

Slider: A skier who falls on a slope of sufficient steepness and does not stop immediately or shortly after the fall.

Snowplow(ing): Pushing skis into a V shape, with the tips narrow and the tails wide and rotating the ankles inwardly. This forces the inner edge of the skis to push into the snow harder. This is a beginning skier’s best method for controlling speed and stopping. It is an effective technique for both cross-country and downhill skiing.

Telemarking: A turn used by cross-country skiers when skiing down slope. This turn provides stability for cross-country skiers who are using a binding where the heel does not lock down. A Telemark turn is somewhat difficult to complete using light touring gear, due to the flexibility of the skis and the low cut boots. Advanced Telemarking occurs on the steepest slopes both in the backcountry and at developed ski areas. Often the boots are plastic and are well up the calf of the leg. The skis are often as wide as downhill or alpine skis.

Three Pinner: A person using cross-country skis. Refers to the 3-pin binding where the toe of the boot has 3 holes that fit over 3 bins on the binding, to provide additional grip. This term is used in spite of the variety of bindings available for cross country skiing, including cable bindings (mostly used for backcountry skiing), specialized Telemark bindings and the NNN (New Nordic Norm - as in normal) binding.

Tiller: A round cylinder mounted across and at the rear of a snow cat, equipped with Rota-tiller type prongs. The cylinder is hydraulically driven by power from the cat’s engine and independently controlled (both speed and height) by the driver. The tiller uncompacts and breaks the snow into small, loose particles. See “PACKER BAR” in this section.

Toboggan: Injured skiers used to be carried down the hill on these. Because they are so difficult to control, plastic sleds are now being used. See “SLED”

Wire Rope: Commonly known as a cable, but actually consists of lengths of wire twisted around a core to form strands. These strands are then twisted around a core in a rope like fashion to form a “wire rope”.

Yard Sale: When a skier or rider falls and loses equipment, such as released skis, poles, gloves, hat, goggles, sunglasses, etc., and the equipment slides down the slope.




I hope all of this is helpful for someone. We all tend to know most of the terms, slang and codes used on radio systems. However, ski area terminology is unique to this industry and the above may be helpful for listeners.
 

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
The latest update is to place the nighttime ski trail grooming at Tamarack Lodge and Cross County Ski Center with the same talkgroup as this lodge's housekeeping. All the trail grooming occurs overnight when housekeeping is not active so there is no conflict between these two completely different functions. The use of this talkgroup for trail grooming is between the two snowcats used, one large cat for the wide and main trails of the resort and the smaller one for the more narrow side trails. These cats have the ability to use the Slope Maintenance and Garage Calling (which I haven't found yet) talkgroups should any problems be encountered. There is very little traffic between the two cross country trail grooming cats as everything is fairly straight forward. However, this does explain why I occasionally log the Tamarack housekeeping talkgroup in the middle of the night.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
25,682
Location
United States
All the trail grooming occurs overnight when housekeeping is not active so there is no conflict between these two completely different functions.

That's an interesting approach, especially with a trunked system where programming a new talkgroup is easy and doesn't really use any resources.
I probably add 2-3 talkgroups a year to my system, and don't see any reason to share existing users.

I wonder if their radios are just programmed with all talkgroups and it's easier to just use an existing/unused/underutilized one after hours, rather than having to touch all the radios again.
 

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
That's an interesting approach, especially with a trunked system where programming a new talkgroup is easy and doesn't really use any resources.
I probably add 2-3 talkgroups a year to my system, and don't see any reason to share existing users.

I wonder if their radios are just programmed with all talkgroups and it's easier to just use an existing/unused/underutilized one after hours, rather than having to touch all the radios again.

It surprised me as well. Without talking with their radio tech and/or the cat drivers, which I don't plan to do, I would have no idea of the whys and why nots. They have the potential for a lot of talkgroups, especially for lodging, that is for sure.
 

553Eng

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
11
Location
Mammoth Lakes,CA
Hello, It is my understanding that the old radio system for MMSA is still in the top of the mountain. I can not hit it with my radio, so I am guessing they are keeping it as a back up (probably unplugged). I have not been to the top radio room in many months, but I heard it was still setup.
Tamarack had it's own RPT setup about 5-6 years ago between Lake Mamie and Lake Mary. It was manly used by the groomers and during avalanche control on Lake Mary RD. We were not able to get to any of the other RPT's on the mountain so that one was installed. I don't know if that RPT is still used. Yes there radio's are programed the same as all other radio's on the hill. It might be a problem when the groomer's are out during the day, in a snow storm and housekeeping is talking about towels...
I am picking up most of the radio traffic from MMSA on my discone antenna, differently an improvement from what was there before.
 

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
I've gotten to the point where I've identified the 30 or so talkgroups that carry 98% of the traffic on this radio system. I have a number of talkgroups that I've logged, but was not near the radio at the time or the conversation did not have the content for me to be able to ID what the function of the channel was. These are those talkgroups with the possible function they might have (just my speculation).

1001 Never logged.
1002 Admin, the higher up managers.
1005 Could also be admin, but it could also be the garage calling channel. The old system had a channel like this.
1007 Never logged.
1008 Logged only. No theories.
1011 Logged infrequently. Traffic of "you should be set for the night" heard. There is a resident at the lift station at the top of the mountain, wonder if it could be him.
1029 Logged. Sounded like lift maintenance during the fall, unknown what it is used for in the winter.
1030 Logged only.
1034 Logged only.
1037 Logged only. Unbound events?
1038 Logged only.
1039 Heard traffic with individuals using their first names. Traffic content did not point to a channel identification.
1040 Never logged.
1999 I think this is the operations announcement talkgroup.
2001 Traffic on this one concerns cats grooming a June Mtn. Ski Area.
2004 Logged only. June Mtn.?
5999 Logged only.
9008. Logged only. Likely a subscriber, but traffic has been very infrequent.

The only talkgroup number series where traffic has not been monitored or identified:

7000
8000

Functions listed on the old system, but not verified on the new system:

Telecommunications
Catering/Restaurants
"544" Garage
Junior Race Teams
Staff Accommodations (Employee housing)
Mountain Operations (Management Employees)
Talk Around - simplex frequency used if computers/trunked system fails.

I hope someone who has skied there, monitored the radio system and have any observations can help.

Thanks, ex Exsmokey and currently es93546.
 

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
Hello, It is my understanding that the old radio system for MMSA is still in the top of the mountain. I can not hit it with my radio, so I am guessing they are keeping it as a back up (probably unplugged). I have not been to the top radio room in many months, but I heard it was still setup.
Tamarack had it's own RPT setup about 5-6 years ago between Lake Mamie and Lake Mary. It was manly used by the groomers and during avalanche control on Lake Mary RD. We were not able to get to any of the other RPT's on the mountain so that one was installed. I don't know if that RPT is still used. Yes there radio's are programed the same as all other radio's on the hill. It might be a problem when the groomer's are out during the day, in a snow storm and housekeeping is talking about towels...
I am picking up most of the radio traffic from MMSA on my discone antenna, differently an improvement from what was there before.

The new trunking system has 3 sites, the top of Mammoth Mtn., Lincoln Mtn. and the top of Chair 12. They have better coverage than the old trunking system, which only had the top of the mountain site. I never hear Tamarack having any coverage problems, all of what I hear have solid signals. Since they have very few units as compared with the other lodging properties their radio traffic has a smaller volume.

I have no knowledge of the repeater between Mary and Mamie. Such a location should have given them good coverage of the Upper Basin, Twin Lakes and on Lake Mary Road below Twin Lakes. I don't think that repeater was ever licensed, but I could be in error given the state of my cognitive functioning. I was thorough in my license searches however. The old system still has a current license for the top of the mountain and over in June Lake as well. The current license for the old system is a result of some recent actions by MMSA, so it is not merely an oversight of old licenses being left until they expire. Someone at the Mountain did a lot of work to get all the old, now inapplicable, licenses cancelled.

I agree with you that having the groomers on the housekeeping talkgroup is not a very good idea. Grooming there occurs well after dark, so there is no conflict, until there is due to the reasons you listed. If it would ever snow this winter, I will be listening to see how they handle their radio traffic.

Good to hear from someone local, who has some knowledge of MMSA's operations, especially in regard to Tamarack X County Ski Center. I assume you have figured out how to program the new system. I had a very hard time with it, until someone pointed out how to program the system. I have a 325P2 and had never programmed a system like MMSA now uses. I can't get anything from the Chair 12 site. I get traffic from both the Summit site and the Lincoln Mtn. site quite well. I don't need anything but the rubber ducky on the handheld to do so. Very solid copy all the time. Not a surprise as both the Summit and Lincoln Mtn. are very visible from most of town, at least the east and south sides of town.
 

553Eng

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
11
Location
Mammoth Lakes,CA
I worked at Tamarack for 9 seasons and when I started we had the Nextel push to talk, drove me crazy not having communication with the rest of the mountain. My guess is the mountain put an extra rpt up so I would stop bothering the radio tech and it probably was never licensed. It was low power, on a 2' mast. Covered most everything we needed in the upper/lower basin. I had the frequency and LCN written down for the rpt and I cant find it in my notes.
I have a 996P2 running at the house, with the new system running. I had most of the old system programed on a BCT8. Are you using Unitrunker to find the LCN's? or going off the info on Radio Reference?
I cant reach Chair 12 or June, Summit and Lincoln are clear at the house. Planning on adding another 5' to 8' of mast to my antenna to get better coverage of Mono/Inyo Counties and MMSA.
 

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
I used the Radio Reference database to program my 325P2. I programmed in the Chair 12 site and will take a trip to the mountain at some point to see how it works. From Main Lodge I should be able to pick up all 3 sites. The Chair 12 site must be there for the Chair 14 area.

Was that Upper Lakes Basin repeater a stand alone repeater or was it a relay to the trunked site at the Summit? Did all the talkgroups on the Mountain's system track through this little repeater?

I need someone with the right software to provide the LCN's for the top of Chair 6 (Rainbow Summit) and Chalet radio sites. I plan to go to June to see what I can hear at some point this month, but when I did a conventional scan of Lincoln Mtn. on the new system from home each reception was covered with trunking data noise. I don't have a laptop computer to run the software that will find the LCNs for each site. I think the software has to be run on a computer, so a laptop in June Lake would be necessary.

I wish I could get a hold of a mountain handheld. There are a few talkgroups I would try to transmit on and match the talkgroup numbers with how the channel is labeled. I spoke to a mountain employee that said as you scroll through the channels the radio has a simulated voice announcement of the channels name. I wouldn't take me too long to get the system nailed down.
 

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
I got the question, why is a channel called snow placement? How does snow plowing relate to snow making? It all boils down to: if it isn't snowing, snow has to be made. Snowplows, mostly large loaders with buckets mounted to the front, require some people with experience running heavy equipment. These experienced people would not have any workload if it isn't snowing. So what do you do with these people when it isn't snowing? If it isn't snowing, snow has to be made to keep the ski area open. So you use your snowplowing workforce to make snow at that time. It's called placement as you are either placing snow on the slopes by making it or you are taking snow off the roads and parking areas and placing it out of the way. I hope this answers the question.

When it is snowing a couple of times a week there is always snow to plow or snow needs to be moved around into storage areas. If the the ski area runs out of places to store snow plowed from the paved surfaces of roads and parking lots then they have to move it to areas that are typically called "snow pits." These are areas off of paved roads where snow is dumped and placed into huge piles that can be 50 or more feet deep. It is ramped so that snow cats kept at these "pits" can be moved from where large trucks dump it at the edge of the piles and it is pushed up toward the top of the pile. Managing what to do with snow, even in an average winter, is time consuming.

Keep in mind, that on the east side of town, which receives the least snowfall of any part of town, the average snowfall is 204" or 17 feet. The western portions of town, closer to the Sierra crest get up to twice that amount. This in just a couple of miles of east to west distance. So this is easily 300-400 inches of snow, again, during an average year. By the time you push snow off of streets, driveways and parking lots where to place this snow becomes a challenge. That is why the town has a large area snow pit where these piles of snow take up nearly 360 degrees of an open area. 10-15 degrees is a gap where trucks enter the snow pit. They then unload the trucks (large end dump trailers with tractor or semi, if you will) at the base of the pile. Again this snow is plowed up to a high end of a pile and the pile advances away from the center of the pile area. Thus the pile grows all winter long away from the snow pit's center. The trailer's have to be treated with a material that keeps the snow from sticking to the bottom otherwise the snow won't slide out. This material is similar to what comes in a spray bottle from the auto parts store to keep your windshield from building up with ice overnight.

Living in mountain regions with snowfall measured in feet rather than inches, requires some skills to be developed and a different way of screwing your head on.
 
Last edited:

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
7,005
Location
Sector 001
Snow placement could also be related to shaping and building features in terrain parks as well.
 

553Eng

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
11
Location
Mammoth Lakes,CA
Snow placement is a term that i think Dave McCoy came up with. I was told Dave said if they needed snow on a trail they would "Place it" (snow making) The name has stuck for many years. When snow making is not in use the crew plows the mtn parking lots or works on the grooming crew.

kayn1n32008- shaping and features is done by the Unbound Cat Crew, that crew does all the terrain parks on the mtn.
 

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
Snow placement could also be related to shaping and building features in terrain parks as well.

Snow placement does not include terrain parks. They have their own organization and talkgroups. They are labeled the "Unbound" function or department. They do their own grooming. The only functions of the "Snow Placement" organization is making and plowing of paved surfaces.
 

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
Snow placement is a term that i think Dave McCoy came up with. I was told Dave said if they needed snow on a trail they would "Place it" (snow making) The name has stuck for many years. When snow making is not in use the crew plows the mtn parking lots or works on the grooming crew.

kayn1n32008- shaping and features is done by the Unbound Cat Crew, that crew does all the terrain parks on the mtn.

Thanks, I typed up my reply prior to seeing yours. I have an old channel (talkgroup) list that a mountain employee provided so I could program her scanner. This list showed most of the departments on the mountain, at least those departments that used radios. That and a lot of listening on active ski days and during storms did a lot to familiarize with mountain operations. I also have a couple of friends that have answered my questions about the mountain. Lastly, I administered the U.S. Forest Service special use permit for MMSA's operation of the Reds Meadow bus system. Personnel I interacted with answered a lot of my questions about the Mountain's organization and operations. I not only administered this permit, but administering the entrance stations was in my job description as part of my "Frontcountry Recreation Supervisor" duties. An employee who worked for me did the day to day admin. of these entrance stations. From time to time I worked in the entrance stations when kids, sickness, doctor's appointments, etc. created staffing shortages for a day or two. Thus I interacted with bus drivers and their supervisors and managers.
 
Last edited:

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
Having plowing snow and making snow is a method of keeping a group of employees busy no matter how heavy the winter is. Otherwise they would lose their skilled snow removal personnel due to a lack of work during long periods without snowfall. Snow making keeps them busy during slow times for plowing. Once it starts snowing, even if it is just an average winter, there is always snow to move. I tried to explain this in my initial post on the topic.
 

es93546

A Member Twice
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,315
Location
Right Side of CA on maps
I also administered the portion of the special use permit for Tamarack Lodge's operation of the cross country ski center. I would patrol the basin a day or two per week. I had winter Nordic volunteers who I supervised to provide patrolling on most of the other days. I interfaced with the ski patrol on the Mountain for the avalanche control on Lake Mary Road. I was responsible for writing the annual avalanche "control" plan, with signatures required from the town, the Mountain, Tamarack Lodge and the District Ranger. This was long before the Mountain bought Tamarack. I became a munitions loader trainee figuring I could increase my avalanche experience while I worked the Mammoth Ranger District, that might help me in future work assignments if I transferred away. All of this required I know the Mountain more than the average U.S. Forest Service employee on the Inyo National Forest.
 

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
7,005
Location
Sector 001
I also administered the portion of the special use permit for Tamarack Lodge's operation of the cross country ski center. I would patrol the basin a day or two per week. I had winter Nordic volunteers who I supervised to provide patrolling on most of the other days. I interfaced with the ski patrol on the Mountain for the avalanche control on Lake Mary Road. I was responsible for writing the annual avalanche "control" plan, with signatures required from the town, the Mountain, Tamarack Lodge and the District Ranger. This was long before the Mountain bought Tamarack. I became a munitions loader trainee figuring I could increase my avalanche experience while I worked the Mammoth Ranger District, that might help me in future work assignments if I transferred away. All of this required I know the Mountain more than the average U.S. Forest Service employee on the Inyo National Forest.
I really wish I could have put myself on a different career trajectory. But I was lazy in school and had no focus. If I could go back and do it again, I think I would have gotten into resort lift operations/grooming, then went to Europe and did the work/travel thing, maybe tried to do winters in the northern hemisphere and summers in the southern hemisphere chasing snow.
 

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
7,005
Location
Sector 001
I also administered the portion of the special use permit for Tamarack Lodge's operation of the cross country ski center. I would patrol the basin a day or two per week. I had winter Nordic volunteers who I supervised to provide patrolling on most of the other days. I interfaced with the ski patrol on the Mountain for the avalanche control on Lake Mary Road. I was responsible for writing the annual avalanche "control" plan, with signatures required from the town, the Mountain, Tamarack Lodge and the District Ranger. This was long before the Mountain bought Tamarack. I became a munitions loader trainee figuring I could increase my avalanche experience while I worked the Mammoth Ranger District, that might help me in future work assignments if I transferred away. All of this required I know the Mountain more than the average U.S. Forest Service employee on the Inyo National Forest.
It sounds like you had an absolutely fascinating career. Thank you for sharing this.
 
Top