Maricopa County new P25 system

p19997

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Do you have an early release model or a newer one? Have you experimented with the VHF reception, I have heard several users saying their reception on the VHF was poor?
I tested two versions of the pre-release model and now have the same released model being sold. I tested VHF and UHF reception.

Because there isn't much VHF in the Phoenix area, I tested that in rural areas of the state where VHF is used heavily. There, VHF performance was better than the 436's. This was both on repeater frequencies and simplex frequencies.

UHF performance is also good in the Phoenix area, but I found that IFX is needed on certain frequencies. In a lesser amount of cases, filtering is also needed. Perhaps in the metro area, IFX and filtering might be necessary for VHF as well.
 

hulka

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I get a really strong signal by the Durango tower but it shows it as the Downtown simulcast.
 

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N9JIG

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Have you experimented with the VHF reception, I have heard several users saying their reception on the VHF was poor?
I have noticed tht the VHF reception with the latest firmware version (1.10.00) is much better than earlier ones on the SDS's, more in line with the performance of the 996XT the SDS200 sits on top of on my desk. With older versions VHF and UHF analog performance was less stellar but now it is pretty similar to other radios.
 

hulka

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The Durango transmitter is part of the “Downtown Simulcast” site. Below is a map of the 3 transmitters that make up this site.

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?action=siteFCCMap&siteId=30284

I’m considering renaming the site to “Central Phoenix” as the description is a little misleading since there are transmitters outside of downtown.

Or Metro

So is that the same for the Lakes also? Like out towards canyon, Apache and so forth?

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KR7CQ

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I personally feel that terrain does play a role with simulcast issues. If you are in an area with tall buildings and more rolling terrain, and you don't have simulcast sites located high above mountains (like North Mountain for example), you will have less interference because more signals will be blocked. The valley is very different than Chicago and many other places in that regard. I've personally tested digital scanners in 26 states during my travels over the last few years, and have found that Phoenix is one of the more challenging areas I've scanned simulcast in, but that's just one mans' experience.

In terms of the meetup in my office, I recall that a bit differently. I don't recall the issue going away until we went outside of the building, not just a few feet away, and I don't recall having confirmed that my computer was the source of interference. Also, very important to note in my view, is that the second SDS100 I bought this year, did not suffer the same interference while sitting in the exact same spot as the first unit, with the same computer running in the same spot. I was not using any filtering or attenuation on the second unit either, so conditions were identical, meaning that there was a difference in performance between the first and second SDS100, unless the actual source of interference was no longer present. However, it should be noted that the first SDS100 also could not lock Simulcast G from anywhere in my home, whereas the new SDS100 can easily monitor that simulcast from anywhere in my house, again, no filters used on the new scanner for comparison purposes. All signs point to a performance difference between the pre-order SDS100 and the new one in my situation.

Still, in the end, I agree with the overall sentiments in both of the posts after mine above. I own and (now) enjoy both the SDS100 and SDS200, and they have earned permanent spots in my collection. They are the best digital scanners ever made, regardless of their faults or weaknesses. There are no other scanners that do as well, and even though the Unication G4/5 devices are superior overall for simulcast, and far more resistant to interference, have a far greater receive range, and more consistent in their results, they have limitations including: inability to scan multiple systems at the same time, no nuisance lockout, no talk group hold button, and the fact that it's sometimes hard to get into the menu as you get interrupted by transmissions. They are not scanners, and cannot totally replace scanners. Whistler scanners are still "last generation" technology and have been left behind completely (wish this weren't true but it is - competition is good indeed).
 

KR7CQ

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I have noticed tht the VHF reception with the latest firmware version (1.10.00) is much better than earlier ones on the SDS's, more in line with the performance of the 996XT the SDS200 sits on top of on my desk. With older versions VHF and UHF analog performance was less stellar but now it is pretty similar to other radios.

I've never seen any lack of sensitivity on the SDS scanners in VHF / UHF as some have claimed to see. Sensitivity isn't the issue, interference and white noise on weaker transmissions are the issues that I and others seem to be seeing.

On a quiet Sunday morning when the DPS airwaves are relatively still, UHF reception of my SDS200, sitting on the same multicoupler, is similar to my other scanners. Weak signals are received and audio is pretty good with the rooftop antenna overall. However, monitor DPS during a busy time, and when a nearby frequency keys up, say 460.3, when listening to 460.325, you can clearly hear a lot of interference when the the other station keys up. You can monitor the other frequency on another scanner to easily confirm that this is happening. As member Ubbe has pointed out, this is a hardware limitation and will not be totally eliminated with firmware, because the filtering on the SDR chip used in the SDS is relatively wide.

With the SDS100 I find good sensitivity on UHF, so much so that even the weakest stations, with squelch cranked all the way up, hold squelch open for all of the audio. The problem there though, is that the white noise levels on weaker signals is very high. I like some other SDS users on RR simply avoid scanning UHF because of this white noise. Some stations have the same issue on the SDS200 with outdoor antenna, but those frequencies have so many issues with interference that I don't even monitor them, so I don't hear as much white noise for that reason with the SDS200 when scanning. I've tried every combination of attenuation, filters, and IFX, and nothing resolves these issues. Others on RR have posted results that mirror my findings so I know that I'm not alone, but for whatever reasons, none of the beta testers ever seem to experience these issues. All of them unanimously find that VHF and UHF analog are "similar" to other scanners, and make no mention of white noise, or of the interference by nearby frequencies. The same interference is even more noticeable with heavy bleed-over on AM air, but again, I've never seen any beta tester mention that. I guess they don't see that problem either.

Only individual testing will confirm whether or not an SDS will work out well for any given person in any given situation, but there is definitely a difference in opinion among people who have spent time with these devices when it comes to how they perform, confirming the old saying, YMMV.
 

KR7CQ

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Or Metro

So is that the same for the Lakes also? Like out towards canyon, Apache and so forth?

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Totally agreed. "Downtown" doesn't seem like the best description.

Also: ***I'm hearing heavy testing of TG's in the 16xx range today, probably 20 TG's, so we may be getting closer to actually hearing some MCSO...fingers crossed for no E on dispatch TG's.
 

hulka

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Tomorrow morning might be busy then.

I did pick up 3001 a few times on white tanks this afternoon.


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KR7CQ

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Tomorrow morning might be busy then.

I did pick up 3001 a few times on white tanks this afternoon.


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Yeah, I keep seeing key-ups on that TG but have only heard voice a time or two.
 

hulka

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All the jails are switching over right now. Lots of activity on downtown site.

I did see something interesting though. I saw 2 talk groups pop up at the same time. I guess they are patched.


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hulka

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Here is what I have so far this morning with the 100 & 200 going: (I will submit them later to the DB)

4th ave: 1601
Central Intake: 1602
Durango: 1614
Towers: 1625
Estrella: 1617
LBJF: 1620
Food Services: 1645

04d9587b1a421ce05d8c04da77d44118.jpg
 

hulka

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4th ave: 1601
Central Intake: 1602
Durango Main: 1614
Durango 2: 1615
Towers Main: 1625
Towers 2: 1625
Estrella Main: 1617
Estrella 2: 1618
LBJF: 1620
Food Services: 1645
Distribution: 1647
Chain Gang-A: 1628
MASH: 1605
 

KB7MIB

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Peoria, AZ.
I heard what sounded like "Probation" mentioned several times on 1633.
Can anyone confirm?

I've also seen double talk groups pop up on the RWC while in search mode, BTW.

John
Peoria
 

hulka

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I heard the radio techs talking about if everyone was switched over so they can turn off the old talk groups. So I guess the 800 side of things are done for the jails.


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KB7MIB

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I'm pretty sure that 2701 is Lake Pleasant. I heard mention of the 10-lane boat ramp, and the marina earlier today.
Unless one of the other lakes also has a 10-lane boat ramp.

John
Peoria
 

N9JIG

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4th ave: 1601
Central Intake: 1602
Durango Main: 1614
Durango 2: 1615
Towers Main: 1625
Towers 2: 1625
Estrella Main: 1617
Estrella 2: 1618
LBJF: 1620
Food Services: 1645
Distribution: 1647
Chain Gang-A: 1628
MASH: 1605


You have 1625 listed as both Towers Main and Towers 2. Can you clarify which is correct and the TGID for the other please?

Thanks!
 
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