Marion County AR

Status
Not open for further replies.

iamhere300

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
1,299
Location
Chappell Hill TX
Has anyone had an update on their Fire Dispatch digital project?

They got an Assistance to Firefighters grant, but then realized they could not use that for MotoTrbo, so last I heard were trying to go P25 but could not figure out how to afford it. (They can't with Motorola equipment, they would have to use another dealer and manufacturer)
 

milf

Careful, I CAN hear you!
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
13,089
Location
Indianapolis, IN
They could use ANY Vendor's P25 subscriber units. Kenwod, EFJ, Harris, Tait etc for AWIN access, or they could even set up their own conventional P25 system for not too much if they shop around, and get the best contract bids. Just depends on if politics gets involved and kills anything good.


And why in the name of Sam Hill can't they use Motorola? Too expensive?
 

chudson584

Member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
54
Location
Jasper, AR
IMHO MotoTrbo is a very bad idea for public safety. Counties seem to be switching to trbo for cost. Playing on risk because of cost. Audio is horrible. I don't like it. Plus no AGC. Some of my deputies in Newton co tell me that they have to turn there radios up because another deputy is talking to low but when I get on the radio I "blast them out of the car." P25, most at least, have AGC. Aside from that, i'll be scanning for a P25 system coming from Marion county. Maybe they'll give us a radio for our Raytheon ACU bridging system and I can get the freqs to submit here.
 

iamhere300

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
1,299
Location
Chappell Hill TX
They could use ANY Vendor's P25 subscriber units. Kenwod, EFJ, Harris, Tait etc for AWIN access, or they could even set up their own conventional P25 system for not too much if they shop around, and get the best contract bids. Just depends on if politics gets involved and kills anything good.


And why in the name of Sam Hill can't they use Motorola? Too expensive?
AWIN will not give them the coverage they want/need.

Motorola just plain old too expensive.

They have been taken to the cleaners last time they upgraded their communications, it will probably happen again.
 

JRayfield

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
791
Location
Springfield, MO
Yes, some public safety agencies have switched to MOTOTRBO because they couldn't afford P25 systems (notice, I did not say "P25 radios", I said "P25 systems". Just because someone can get enough grant money to pay for "P25 radios" doesn't mean that they can get enough money to pay for "P25 systems". The cost for mobiles and portables is a small part of the total cost for a "complete P25 system", in many cases).

As to MOTOTRBO audio being "horrible", that is not necessarily true in all cases, and it shouldn't be true in any case. Some systems have been installed that were not set up properly or that used non-Motorola accessories, resulting in bad-sounding audio. Systems that are installed/set up properly, and that use Motorola accessories (such as the IMPRES speaker/microphones) sound very good, with much better audio than some analog systems (especially in weak-signal conditions). All MOTOTRBO radios have AGC. In some cases, it works well to have it enabled. In other cases, the audio on a MOTOTRBO system will sound better with AGC disabled. It tends to depend somewhat on which specific model of microphone is being used on a particular radio.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM

IMHO MotoTrbo is a very bad idea for public safety. Counties seem to be switching to trbo for cost. Playing on risk because of cost. Audio is horrible. I don't like it. Plus no AGC. Some of my deputies in Newton co tell me that they have to turn there radios up because another deputy is talking to low but when I get on the radio I "blast them out of the car." P25, most at least, have AGC. Aside from that, i'll be scanning for a P25 system coming from Marion county. Maybe they'll give us a radio for our Raytheon ACU bridging system and I can get the freqs to submit here.
 

milf

Careful, I CAN hear you!
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
13,089
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Also note that DMR conventional does not mean Motorola every time. There are multiple Vendors that supply DMR systems, not just radios. Now with trunking, yes only Motorola's MotoTRBO Solutions exist currently.
 

RRSINC

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Messages
47
Location
Woburn, MA
Low audio can also be caused by the user not holding the radio correctly on the xpr6350 & xpr6550 the microphone is on the bottom of the radio.

Often times we find user who complain of low audio have tier hand over the mic port when using it hence the low muffled audio.

Bad radio or end user error?

I know all of my public safety customer who have Mototrbo and have been probably trained on them love them.
 

iamhere300

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
1,299
Location
Chappell Hill TX
Also note that DMR conventional does not mean Motorola every time. There are multiple Vendors that supply DMR systems, not just radios. Now with trunking, yes only Motorola's MotoTRBO Solutions exist currently.
Nope. DMR standard trunking is available through a number of vendors, but TRBO is not DMR standard trunking.
 

03msc

RF is RF
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
2,689
Location
Arkansas
Nope. DMR standard trunking is available through a number of vendors, but TRBO is not DMR standard trunking.
Care to share more details on this? Because milf is pretty knowledgeable (read: Very knowledgeable) when it comes to these things and you are basically saying he is wrong. Please explain.
 

iamhere300

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
1,299
Location
Chappell Hill TX
Care to share more details on this? Because milf is pretty knowledgeable (read: Very knowledgeable) when it comes to these things and you are basically saying he is wrong. Please explain.
LOL. There ARE other knowlegdable people on this board however. Not to detract from his knowledge, but take a look at these pages.

https://www.taitradio.com/products-and-services/technologies-products/dmr/dmr-products

Hytera DMR Trunking Pro - System - Hytera Communications Corporation Limited

The DMR Standard | DMR Association

http://www.simocogroup.com/resources/brochures/dmr/emea/Simoco-Xd-Tier-III-trunked-radio-solution_EMEA-AUS.pdf

One of the purposes of the forum here is to EXCHANGE knowledge, that is how we all learn. No one has a lock on knowing everything.
 

iamhere300

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
1,299
Location
Chappell Hill TX
There are no AWIN sites there? How do the State police talk? Ive been up there several times, and see no reason one or two well located sites couldnt cover the whole county.
AWIN is a mobile solution. Not a portable solution. Coverage is designed for mobile coverage, while VFD's rely a LOT on portable radios.

If I am correct, and I may be wrong - the county has one site, and relies on coverage from towers in adjoining counties, to give it the mobile coverage. Portable coverage, in the terrain of the county, will be difficult.
 

davenlr

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
637
Location
North Little Rock, Ar
AWIN is a mobile solution. Not a portable solution. Coverage is designed for mobile coverage, while VFD's rely a LOT on portable radios.

If I am correct, and I may be wrong - the county has one site, and relies on coverage from towers in adjoining counties, to give it the mobile coverage. Portable coverage, in the terrain of the county, will be difficult.
It would be no different than using any other system would it? What system are they using now? Now, Im no expert on P25, believe me, but I see no reason why they could not use some sort of mobile repeater on the fire truck to communicate with portables on a fire scene. Does P25 not offer a simplex channel availability for close in, portable to portable comm?
 

milf

Careful, I CAN hear you!
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
13,089
Location
Indianapolis, IN
For the kind of HT coverage an FD really needs to be fully functional in any situation would need the kind of coverage like LWIN, or MSWIN has. (Up to 97% HT on hip coverage) AWIN does give excellent Mobile Radio coverage for most areas, but indeed is lacking in large regions for HT coverage. There are areas that have the 97%ish coverage due to multiple sites in compact reagion... (Little Rock, and several other areas.) But to give Marion the 97% HT on hip would mean building at least on more site in the county, which would also add to the excellent mobile coverage from the one there, and 3/4 others surrounding the county. So yes, cost wise, currently that is not completely feasible unless they get the clout of the politicians singing the scare tactic song to do it, which gives them a tad too much power with little background in the field, and we see time and again where this goes.

As for the DMR trunking, apparently my data is again dated on it, though the only serious bidder for larger and wide area trunking using DMR is the big dog, and you could call them hogs a lot of the time due to the huge market shares they suck up with "barely ethical" sales/deals techniques is Motorola for most of the United States. This may start changing with a couple of the other Vendors stepping up their games. But the pie charts still have mother M with the by far biggest slicing. It is no secret that I am not a fan of Public Safety using DMR in its current format as it is NOT specifically designed for PS usage. It is designed for Business/SMR use, as is NXDN/iDAS. Just like LTR, and all its variations. But that is another rant for another forum,

Yes, I am knowledgeable, and am also just an human being, I am by no means an comms god. I do make mistakes, and am not always 100% correct. If I was a comms god, I would be driving around all 4 of my states in my 10 wheeler with an mobile antenna farm on a trailer, with enough gear to nuke a slice of French Toast in 10 seconds flat... And be giving myself and everyone in a 50 mile radius brain tumors rom the sheer almighty power of my RF footprint. NASA, NSA, CIA, etc etc etc.. Would contract under me for info.


:lol:
 

iamhere300

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
1,299
Location
Chappell Hill TX
It would be no different than using any other system would it? What system are they using now? Now, Im no expert on P25, believe me, but I see no reason why they could not use some sort of mobile repeater on the fire truck to communicate with portables on a fire scene. Does P25 not offer a simplex channel availability for close in, portable to portable comm?
Troopers almost always have a car with them, as do most police officers in rural areas. Vehicular repeaters work well then.

Fire Departments are often far from their vehicle, or the apparatus often does not make a call. Medical calls are a great example, many departments in northern AR just respond POV to medical calls. SAR work is often far from FD vehicles, as are woods fires, etc.

Yes, simplex comms for a close range can be P25 (although I prefer to see them using analog - espicially for fireground comms) but that still does not get the signal from dispatch to the unit, and with 700/800 range is less than VHF.
 

milf

Careful, I CAN hear you!
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
13,089
Location
Indianapolis, IN
LOL, man.. in my dreams... In my dreams. I may have a nice collection again by this time next year.. But the kind of gear and power I want.... I would have to have my email addies, and website ending in a (.gov or .mil) lol.
 

iamhere300

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
1,299
Location
Chappell Hill TX
AWIN is a mobile solution. Not a portable solution. Coverage is designed for mobile coverage, while VFD's rely a LOT on portable radios.
Just to further the coverage issue - I talked with a couple of agencies on the Baxter county / Marion county line today, who stated their portable coverage was so lacking in their area that they dropped their AWIN usage and went back to VHF. Again, it is a mobile coverage system.
 

davenlr

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
637
Location
North Little Rock, Ar
Just to further the coverage issue - I talked with a couple of agencies on the Baxter county / Marion county line today, who stated their portable coverage was so lacking in their area that they dropped their AWIN usage and went back to VHF. Again, it is a mobile coverage system.
Couldnt AWIN put in a VHF site simulcast with their 800 site? Is there a law saying they HAVE to use 700/800?

I know Hams have repeaters with inputs on just about every band, and outputs to match, all tied in together. Use whatever band works best for you, and everyone else can still talk to you.
 

iamhere300

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
1,299
Location
Chappell Hill TX
Couldnt AWIN put in a VHF site simulcast with their 800 site? Is there a law saying they HAVE to use 700/800?

I know Hams have repeaters with inputs on just about every band, and outputs to match, all tied in together. Use whatever band works best for you, and everyone else can still talk to you.
Cost is prohibitive. Throws off the whole interop standard when users are out of the VHF area. You would have to still have multiple sites to cover the county. Now, they could use a bridge, but you still have to have an effective VHF system to bridge AWIN to.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top