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Tytera MD-UV390 Encryption not working with MD-UV390 Plus

W

W8HKR

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Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 24, 2021
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Mason, Ohio
I am working on a proof of concept for my company. We have several MD-UV390 and recently purchased three MD-UV390 Plus. Before we spend the money and effort for a business license so we can legally use encryption, I wanted to see if it was even possible. What I've learned is that MD-UV390 encryption is not working with MD-UV390 Plus. I can get encrypted comms to work between like models, but not across models. I've tried every combination of CPS MD-UV390 programming software versions between v1.30& v2.34 using the same encryption keys.

Any suggestions?

Thank you in advance.
Apex
 
L

Louie7

Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2023
Messages
44
W8HKR said:
I am working on a proof of concept for my company. We have several MD-UV390 and recently purchased three MD-UV390 Plus. Before we spend the money and effort for a business license so we can legally use encryption, I wanted to see if it was even possible. What I've learned is that MD-UV390 encryption is not working with MD-UV390 Plus. I can get encrypted comms to work between like models, but not across models. I've tried every combination of CPS MD-UV390 programming software versions between v1.30& v2.34 using the same encryption keys.

Any suggestions?

Thank you in advance.
Apex
Click to expand...
Why do you talk about a business license? There are no licenses to purchase with the MD UV390 or MDUV390 Plus. Everything is provided with no additional purchase necessary. Or are you talking about an FCC license and not a license from TYT?

The MDUV390 Plus supports TYT Basic, TYT Enhanced, RC4-40, AES-128, and AES-256 encryption (RC4-40, AES128 and AES256 are compatible with Motorola/Hytera).

The MDUV390 supports TYT Basic and TYT Enhanced encryption. If you want MDUV390 to communicate with MDUV390 Plus, you should choose Basic or Enhanced encryption.

As a side note, there is software that breaks Motorola Basic, Hytera Basic and Motorola/Hytera RC4 encryption, but no software that breaks TYT Basic and TYT Enhanced encryption, probably not because it's very secure but because it's not widespread.

So if you want to protect yourself from competitors (and not from the NSA or FBI), TYT Basic and Enhanced encryption is more reliable than Motorola Basic, Hytera Basic and RC4 encryption because there is no software to break them.

Of course, the best of the best is AES-128 or AES-256, but then you will have to replace all your MDUV390 with MDUV390 Plus.

It should also be noted that TYT Enhanced encryption does not reduce the range of radios (RC4 and AES do not reduce the range of radios either), but the TYT Basic encryption reduces the range of the radios because it is done not on 49-bit AMBE frames but on 72-bit FEC frames, so the error correction no longer works.

The advantage of TYT Basic encryption is that it can't even be displayed on software such as DSD Plus, DSD-FME, or DSD because all frames are displayed in error (because of the encryption on FEC frames), so even a DIYer won't be able to use these programs to try to figure out how TYT Basic encryption works.

Listen to the sound of a TYT Basic cipher, you will see that it is completely different from the TYT Enhanced cipher.

It should also be noted that professional decoding systems like WAVECOM don't even know about the existence of TYT Basic and TYT Enhanced encryption. (they only know the Motorola Basic, Motorola Enhanced (RC4) and AES modes).

See page 5 :

 
Last edited:
W

W8HKR

Newbie
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 24, 2021
Messages
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Location
Mason, Ohio
Louie7 said:
Why do you talk about a business license? There are no licenses to purchase with the MD UV390 or MDUV390 Plus. Everything is provided with no additional purchase necessary. Or are you talking about an FCC license and not a license from TYT?

The MDUV390 Plus supports TYT Basic, TYT Enhanced, RC4-40, AES-128, and AES-256 encryption (RC4-40, AES128 and AES256 are compatible with Motorola/Hytera).

The MDUV390 supports TYT Basic and TYT Enhanced encryption. If you want MDUV390 to communicate with MDUV390 Plus, you should choose Basic or Enhanced encryption.

As a side note, there is software that breaks Motorola Basic, Hytera Basic and Motorola/Hytera RC4 encryption, but no software that breaks TYT Basic and TYT Enhanced encryption, probably not because it's very secure but because it's not widespread.

So if you want to protect yourself from competitors (and not from the NSA or FBI), TYT Basic and Enhanced encryption is more reliable than Motorola Basic, Hytera Basic and RC4 encryption because there is no software to break them.

Of course, the best of the best is AES-128 or AES-256, but then you will have to replace all your MDUV390 with MDUV390 Plus.

It should also be noted that TYT Enhanced encryption does not reduce the range of radios (RC4 and AES do not reduce the range of radios either), but the TYT Basic encryption reduces the range of the radios because it is done not on 49-bit AMBE frames but on 72-bit FEC frames, so the error correction no longer works.

The advantage of TYT Basic encryption is that it can't even be displayed on software such as DSD Plus, DSD-FME, or DSD because all frames are displayed in error (because of the encryption on FEC frames), so even a DIYer won't be able to use these programs to try to figure out how TYT Basic encryption works.

Listen to the sound of a TYT Basic cipher, you will see that it is completely different from the TYT Enhanced cipher.

It should also be noted that professional decoding systems like WAVECOM don't even know about the existence of TYT Basic and TYT Enhanced encryption. (they only know the Motorola Basic, Motorola Enhanced (RC4) and AES modes).

See page 5 :

Click to expand...
You need a business license to use encryption not to buy the radion.
 
W

W8HKR

Newbie
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 24, 2021
Messages
4
Location
Mason, Ohio
Louie7 said:
Why do you talk about a business license? There are no licenses to purchase with the MD UV390 or MDUV390 Plus. Everything is provided with no additional purchase necessary. Or are you talking about an FCC license and not a license from TYT?

The MDUV390 Plus supports TYT Basic, TYT Enhanced, RC4-40, AES-128, and AES-256 encryption (RC4-40, AES128 and AES256 are compatible with Motorola/Hytera).

The MDUV390 supports TYT Basic and TYT Enhanced encryption. If you want MDUV390 to communicate with MDUV390 Plus, you should choose Basic or Enhanced encryption.

As a side note, there is software that breaks Motorola Basic, Hytera Basic and Motorola/Hytera RC4 encryption, but no software that breaks TYT Basic and TYT Enhanced encryption, probably not because it's very secure but because it's not widespread.

So if you want to protect yourself from competitors (and not from the NSA or FBI), TYT Basic and Enhanced encryption is more reliable than Motorola Basic, Hytera Basic and RC4 encryption because there is no software to break them.

Of course, the best of the best is AES-128 or AES-256, but then you will have to replace all your MDUV390 with MDUV390 Plus.

It should also be noted that TYT Enhanced encryption does not reduce the range of radios (RC4 and AES do not reduce the range of radios either), but the TYT Basic encryption reduces the range of the radios because it is done not on 49-bit AMBE frames but on 72-bit FEC frames, so the error correction no longer works.

The advantage of TYT Basic encryption is that it can't even be displayed on software such as DSD Plus, DSD-FME, or DSD because all frames are displayed in error (because of the encryption on FEC frames), so even a DIYer won't be able to use these programs to try to figure out how TYT Basic encryption works.

Listen to the sound of a TYT Basic cipher, you will see that it is completely different from the TYT Enhanced cipher.

It should also be noted that professional decoding systems like WAVECOM don't even know about the existence of TYT Basic and TYT Enhanced encryption. (they only know the Motorola Basic, Motorola Enhanced (RC4), and AES modes).

See page 5 :

Click to expand...
Thank you for the detailed response.
 
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