Mesa PD considers switch to full encryption.

[PVPD730]

I'll leave this here.

‘Phoneslingers’ haunt and taunt Mesa cops

Emergency dispatchers typically communicate calls they receive so police officers can respond to them over radio frequencies that can be picked up by “scanners.”

www.eastvalleytribune.com

 

[Giddyuptd]

Several are considering due to this. Nothing new.

 

[drdeputy]

I will only add that we are pooping our own nest. I'll let you decide who 'we' are.

 

[Ravenfalls]

The valley codes are not difficult to get if you know the right bad people in AZ. What's stopping these idiots from not buying the codes from media or other sources? Current codes have been shared with FD & other agencies, they are floating around for some local agencies.

Alot of work for very little result. Idiots will also follow officers all night, to their calls.

 

[E5911]

I think if the problem is as bad as they claim, encryption will not stop it, the "copwatchers" will just follow the cops around after the cars are seen on the street.

 

[cfsimmont]

I'll leave this here.

‘Phoneslingers’ haunt and taunt Mesa cops

Emergency dispatchers typically communicate calls they receive so police officers can respond to them over radio frequencies that can be picked up by “scanners.”

www.eastvalleytribune.com

I have seen this bs on Youtube while looking for various scanning related videos. While these "copwatchers" are a nuisance there is a more prevalent problem at hand. These little snots are violating a law that is present on in every city, "interfering with a law enforcement investigation" and should be arrested for such. I am a big fan of the media and them doing their job (as long as they are actually reporting the facts), but these twits aren't the media they are just they are just a menace. Encrypting radio traffic will only solve part of the problem, as someone else stated on here they can just follow any random PD vehicle until they happen upon something they want to see. Encrypting police radio traffic will only add to the lack of transparency that already is perceived by the public and make the local law enforcement less trustworthy. Arresting these individuals at an active scene and charging them with interfering with a law enforcement investigation and disturbing the peace each time will be the only solution that will stick. Would also be helpful if Youtube and other social media platforms would censor this type of activity and stop giving them a platform to post their antics.

 

[cfsimmont]

The valley codes are not difficult to get if you know the right bad people in AZ. What's stopping these idiots from not buying the codes from media or other sources? Current codes have been shared with FD & other agencies, they are floating around for some local agencies.

Alot of work for very little result. Idiots will also follow officers all night, to their calls.

The "codes" being the encryption codes are only useful to them if they have a commercial grade radio, having a scanner app on their phone or a scanner won't allow them to use the encryption codes. Most of these goofs don't have the knowledge to program a scanner never less a commercial radio.

 

[Thunderknight]

The valley codes are not difficult to get if you know the right bad people in AZ. What's stopping these idiots from not buying the codes from media or other sources? Current codes have been shared with FD & other agencies, they are floating around for some local agencies.

Use AES-256 (not ADP) and keyloaders kept in a safe or OTAR and if the keys still leak, then you have an internal problem with the trusted people who generated the keys. You can't extract an AES key out of a radio. So if any agency provides a pre-programmed radio (or keyloads an approved radio owned by the media), the keys can't be read back out.
Just like any secret, if you start sharing it, you've lost control of it. If you keyload the outside radio yourself, you've kept the key secret.

 

[Foresigt]

I think streaming is our biggest enemy. With the streaming and apps anyone can listen. As scanner hobbyists, we have invested hundreds of dollars to buy scanners to listen and not a $5 or even free app on the phone to listen. If you think public safety isn't aware about streaming and the fact that now anyone can listen easily, you are fooling yourself. I don't get why people want to stream anyways. You spend $700 on a scanner and then you are going to stream it so many people can listen to it for free? Think about it. Wopuld you buy a Porche and then let everyone drive it for free?

 

[K7MFC]

I think streaming is our biggest enemy.

I also believe streaming is accelerating the end of the scanning hobby as we all know (knew?) It. I've always been uncomfortable with the notion of profiting from public safety radio transmissions by putting advertisements on top of them and rebroadcasting via the internet.

 

[AB5ID]

I think streaming is our biggest enemy. With the streaming and apps anyone can listen. As scanner hobbyists, we have invested hundreds of dollars to buy scanners to listen and not a $5 or even free app on the phone to listen. If you think public safety isn't aware about streaming and the fact that now anyone can listen easily, you are fooling yourself. I don't get why people want to stream anyways. You spend $700 on a scanner and then you are going to stream it so many people can listen to it for free? Think about it. Wopuld you buy a Porche and then let everyone drive it for free?

There is no reversing it at this point, and I am a feed provider.

 

[mmckenna]

The need to go encrypted is coming from a couple of different directions.

Yeah, ass-hats like these guys are part of it. I'm sure the agency is aware and has ways of dealing with this.
Streaming isn't helping, but it's not the main cause, it just made it easier for others to listen (reference said ass-hattery above).
The FBI has rules regarding the broadcast of CJI/PII in the clear, but it's not been well enforced. That's starting to change. California has adopted the FBI/CaDOJ requirements to keep CJI/PII encrypted, much to the frustration of some hobbyists. The FBI will likely be starting to push this more, as well state justice departments.

I agree with AB5ID, there's really no reversing it a this point, the drivers are there and they are based on sound principals. Banning streaming, adding delays, etc. are not going to stop this as none of them fix the core issue.

 

[PVPD730]

I have seen this bs on Youtube while looking for various scanning related videos. While these "copwatchers" are a nuisance there is a more prevalent problem at hand. These little snots are violating a law that is present on in every city, "interfering with a law enforcement investigation" and should be arrested for such. I am a big fan of the media and them doing their job (as long as they are actually reporting the facts), but these twits aren't the media they are just they are just a menace. Encrypting radio traffic will only solve part of the problem, as someone else stated on here they can just follow any random PD vehicle until they happen upon something they want to see. Encrypting police radio traffic will only add to the lack of transparency that already is perceived by the public and make the local law enforcement less trustworthy. Arresting these individuals at an active scene and charging them with interfering with a law enforcement investigation and disturbing the peace each time will be the only solution that will stick. Would also be helpful if Youtube and other social media platforms would censor this type of activity and stop giving them a platform to post their antics.

After I came across the article, I searched youtube and found some of the agitator videos. What Mesa PD and others have started doing is surrounding the "auditor" idiots with crime scene tape (even on routine traffic stops). Said idiots get one warning to leave. Of course they refuse then they end up in cuffs. Problem solved by creative policing. Generally I don't agree with censorship on social media, however, in this case I agree wholeheartedly with what you said. Youtube won't do it because they support this type of stupidity. I know of officers and even ordinary citizens who have filed privacy complaints. The frauditors appeal and their videos get reinstated.

 

[PVPD730]

The need to go encrypted is coming from a couple of different directions.

Yeah, ass-hats like these guys are part of it. I'm sure the agency is aware and has ways of dealing with this.
Streaming isn't helping, but it's not the main cause, it just made it easier for others to listen (reference said ass-hattery above).
The FBI has rules regarding the broadcast of CJI/PII in the clear, but it's not been well enforced. That's starting to change. California has adopted the FBI/CaDOJ requirements to keep CJI/PII encrypted, much to the frustration of some hobbyists. The FBI will likely be starting to push this more, as well state justice departments.

I agree with AB5ID, there's really no reversing it a this point, the drivers are there and they are based on sound principals. Banning streaming, adding delays, etc. are not going to stop this as none of them fix the core issue.

Agreed. On the California topic, some of the agencies aren't encrypting they day-to-day dispatch channels/talkgroups. They're just disseminating the CJI/PII to the officers' laptops or using a secondary encrypted talkgroup for that purpose. More states need to wake up and start creating legislation aimed at stopping youtubers from portraying themselves as media. Washington State and Oklahoma have already passed laws that make it a crime for non-credentialed journalists (i.e, "citizen youtube media") to use their camera equipment for the sole purpose of agitating/harassing law enforcement.

 

[KevinC]

The valley codes are not difficult to get if you know the right bad people in AZ. What's stopping these idiots from not buying the codes from media or other sources? Current codes have been shared with FD & other agencies, they are floating around for some local agencies.

Alot of work for very little result. Idiots will also follow officers all night, to their calls.

So the actual key variable is out in the wild? That's on the agency for lack of security of the keyloader (assuming it's not ADP/RC4 loaded via SW, but that's still on them).

Just curious, why would the "media" have the codes? Did the agency give it to them to load in radios themselves?

 

[GlobalNorth]

The media has no access to the cryptography or the ciphers used in the Motorola APX system. Even access to the actual radios does not impart access.

The people that assert this fallacy are the same people who claimed that they could decode MDC transmissions from 1978 given frequency access and a simple BASIC language computer terminal or who claim that they can get onto the Internet and get access to NCIC / NLETS.

 

[mmckenna]

Agreed. On the California topic, some of the agencies aren't encrypting they day-to-day dispatch channels/talkgroups. They're just disseminating the CJI/PII to the officers' laptops or using a secondary encrypted talkgroup for that purpose.

Right, that's one approach.
But small agencies that only have one channel don't have that luxury. And typing in info while in pursuit isn't an option. Some small agencies are going 100% encrypted because they have no other reasonable options. Easier to encrypt their single channel that build out a second channel for this stuff.

More states need to wake up and start creating legislation aimed at stopping youtubers from portraying themselves as media. Washington State and Oklahoma have already passed laws that make it a crime for non-credentialed journalists (i.e, "citizen youtube media") to use their camera equipment for the sole purpose of agitating/harassing law enforcement.

This I like.
Too many self appointed 'watchdog' groups, wanna be media, etc.

 

[PVPD730]

Right, that's one approach.
But small agencies that only have one channel don't have that luxury. And typing in info while in pursuit isn't an option. Some small agencies are going 100% encrypted because they have no other reasonable options. Easier to encrypt their single channel that build out a second channel for this stuff.

That's true with the smaller agencies. My home city has a population of 500,000, and the PD doesn't have any secondary talkgroups. All of the routine dispatch talkgroups have the user-select encrypt option enabled. Dispatchers/Officers can turn the encryption on/off at will. Dispatch is short-staffed and they don't have the personnel to run a secondary talkgroup (many other agencies all over the USA are dealing with the same issue). We don't have a huge problem with 'copwatchers' here, but it happens occasionally. When it becomes a problem, everyone just hits the Ø switch and the morons crawl back under their rocks.

 

[Ravenfalls]

The media has no access to the cryptography or the ciphers used in the Motorola APX system. Even access to the actual radios does not impart access.

The people that assert this fallacy are the same people who claimed that they could decode MDC transmissions from 1978 given frequency access and a simple BASIC language computer terminal or who claim that they can get onto the Internet and get access to NCIC / NLETS.

Using the Unication radios now supports AES256 that a end user can configure. Many agencies allow the Unication for personel to use at home.

 

[Ravenfalls]

Use AES-256 (not ADP) and keyloaders kept in a safe or OTAR and if the keys still leak, then you have an internal problem with the trusted people who generated the keys. You can't extract an AES key out of a radio. So if any agency provides a pre-programmed radio (or keyloads an approved radio owned by the media), the keys can't be read back out.
Just like any secret, if you start sharing it, you've lost control of it. If you keyload the outside radio yourself, you've kept the key secret.

Maybe possible they are using ADP?

Is AJ & Gilbert considering switching at the same time?