MN State Patrol

[mnrick]

Hello, I am a new user here in MN. I just purchased a PRO-652 a few days ago. I live in the south metro area and will probably be asking for advice on some things.

I am wondering about the State Police here. A few days ago I was running some scan lists on wildcard and i noticed the some State Patrol ID's were showing up in different scan lists I had.

Does anyone know how that works specifically? I assume it depends on where the unit is transmitting from or do the State Patrol ID's just automatically go out on all the talk systems?

I am just looking for some insight into this and what is the best way to monitor the State Patrol, since they do not seem to be limited to any specific site here.

Thanks,

Rick

 

[ofd8001]

Just like living in Minnesota is an education in the weather, listening to the ARMER system in the Twin Cities is an education in complex radio systems.

There are numerous "sub systems" that are part of the ARMER system in the Twin Cities. Some of these are Anoka, Hennepin East, Hennepin West, Dakota, Minneapolis City Center (the "state's"), Minneapolis N-S (city of Minneapolis'), Ramsey and Washington.

Users on the ARMER system are assigned to a "Home" sub-system. The state patrol's "Home" sub-system is the Minneapolis City Center. There are two towers for this I believe. One in downtown Minneapolis and the other in downtown St. Paul.

Users can venture outside of the coverage area for their "Home" sub-system. Sometimes it is rare (like a Minneapolis fire truck being in Bloomington), others it is very frequent (like a state trooper being in Bloomington).

When these users are roaming outside of their "Home" sub-system and do not get a clear signal from it, their radios affiliate another sub-system. That helps to keep the users in radio contact. In the case of the trooper being in Bloomington, the trooper's radio would be affiliated with the Hennepin East sub-system.

(This process is quite similar to the roaming capabilities found in cellular telephones.)

When a roaming user's radio affiliates with a "foreign" sub-system, a radio link is established between that foreign sub-system and the user's "Home" sub-system. This technology is called "Omni-linking".

In such cases, the radio traffic is carried by both the "foreign" and the "Home" sub-systems. Thus that trooper in Bloomington is on the Hennepin East sub-system and the Minneapolis City Center sub-system at the same time.

Thus if you have programmed the Minneapolis City Center and Hennepin East, and are in range of both, it's possible that you'll hear the Bloomington trooper talk on Hennepin East and find the trooper's next transmission coming in on Minneapolis City Center.

 

[ofd8001]

Also, when I'm back up in Minneapolis visiting family, I program in all the sites ("sub-systems") in the Metro area.

I program in the talkgroups I'm interested in hearing. These are Minneapolis PD, FD, State Patrol and all things fire.

From there, I pretty much let the scanner sort things out. If I'm not in range of a site, it's no "biggie" as the scanner just passes over that site.

 

[mnrick]

Thank you, I was curious about what the "Minneapolis City Center" was. I thought it might be another name for the convention center or something. Now I know.

The other night I was trying to figure things out and was scanning with wildcard ID's and I heard State Patrol transmissions (54 & 74) in the Dakota County system as well as in Hennepin County and I wondered how that worked.

Thanks for the info.

Rick

 

[ofd8001]

Yep. . . What they call "Minneapolis City Center" is actually, I believe, two sites. One is somwhere downtown Minneapolis and the other downtown St. Paul. This is the home site for state agencies - state patrol, BCA, MnDOT and some if not all, EMS providers.

The "Minneapolis N-S" is the home site for the city of Minneapolis agencies.

The naming of these two sites can be a little confusing, but that's how they chose to do it for better or worse.

Given the mobility of most public safety users, it's almost academic for the casual scanner listener.

The Minnesota system is a very robust system will all kinds of neat things.

If you haven't already programmed them in, I highly recommend including all the state interoperability talkgroups. It is quite possibly that you may hear some major incidents taking place out-state on them, but the right set of conditions has to be in place.

There's an interesting report on radio communications during the 35W bridge collapse a number of years ago. It goes into a lot of detail how the system works and performed during the incident.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...JQDyhXEf2seuvc-CMUOHghw&bvm=bv.80642063,d.eXY

 

[mnrick]

Thanks for that. I will check that out later, I just woke up and have to get ready to get on my way for the day.

Being new to this I am sure I will have some questions. I bought the scanner Thursday played with it for hours before I decided I'd better go back and get the programming cable.

I am using the Win500, that is not exactly easy for first time users but I think I got that down now.

I have three scan lists in so far, Bloomington, Eden Prairie (I live right near the border of both cities and wanted to be able to listen to them separately if need be) and then I created a 3rd list of Edina/Richfield/Golden Valley, Minnetonka and St. Louis Park.

It looks like those cities are the only ones in Hennepin County that do their own dispatching and that everything else (except Minneapolis) will be on the County system (North, East & South Main) am I correct on that?

My next list will be everything else Hennepin County and then I will do a Minneapolis list and I may combine Scott and Carver Counties into one list. I might do a separate Airport list or I could go back and combine the Airport with the list I have Richfield in, just to keep things geographic.

The State will get in there, I just have to study the database and figure out what all I want to add to it, it looks like a lot and I might make two State groups. Do you know where the FIRST trucks are at in there, I want them in with the State Patrol.

Thanks again for the help and advice, I am sure we will be talking more here.

Have a nice day and stay warm.

Rick

 

[mrmeowmittens]

TGID 338 It's under DOT District 5 (Metro)

 

[stmills]

Minneapolis City Center is a building in Downtown Minneapolis- sites 1-001, 1-009, 2-001 all have transmitters on this site- when referenced as a site most are referring to the Metro Main site that cover Minneapolis and St Paul.
State Patrol dispatch channels are forced to always be on each state site in the district- so in the west metro you will hear tg54 on city center, Hennepin East & West, Anoka, Carver Scott, Dakota sites. For police mains in the metro it seems that most have coverage in the home county and the adjacent counties- on 2-001 Hennepin East you will often hear Anoka South, Dakota County, Scott County, or on the Anoka County system you can often hear, Washington, Chisago, Ramsey, Sherburne, and Hennepin Counties

 

[mnrick]

Thanks for the info, I will eventually get a better understanding of it all.

Does anyone know where I can find a list of unit ID's for Hennepin County.

I already figured out that Bloomington is 48**, 62** is Minnetonka and 52** might be Champlin.

If there is a complete list out there somewhere please send me a link to it. Thanks

Lastly, what is L-TAC? Is that part of the Statewide Interoperability Talkgroups or is that something specific to Hennepin County. I was listening to Bloomington tonight and they had a officer attempting to stop someone who crossed the line into Edina and the officer asked for a patch to "L-TAC" with Edina.

 

[stmills]

L-Tac is law enforcement shared statewide Tac channel- part of the statewide interoperability groups.
Here is a good reference of Hennepin County agencies
http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Hennepin_County_(MN)_Radio_IDs_on_ARMER

 

[ofd8001]

"L-TAC" is a talkgroup that is used for significant events, to include pursuits. Generally speaking when a police officer is in a pursuit likely to cross jurisdictional boundaries or involve multiple agencies, a patch to this talkgroup is created. The pursuing officer's talkgroup is patched to the first available L-TAC talkgroup. Other agencies who may be assisting switch their radios to the L-TAC talkgroup so their efforts can be coordinated.

These are found in the Statewide Interoperability Talkgroups section of: Allied Radio Matrix for Emergency Response (ARMER) Trunking System, Various, Minnesota - Scanner Frequencies Programming all these is recommended as are those for the Zone 1 Interoperability. You may hear things on these talkgroups rarely, but when you do, they probably make for very interesting listening.

More good reading for background knowledge:
https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/ecn/programs/armer/Pages/Guide-Books.aspx

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...hyGX8pqyqdolXyPsNz0Ks3w&bvm=bv.80642063,d.eXY

 

[mnrick]

Thank you again for the info, it is helpful.

At this point I have built 5 scan lists. It is taking some time because I am changing the Alpha tags to things I can understand.

I want to get Scott and Carver counties in there tonight, might get to Dakota.

 

[stmills]

Since you are in the Eden Prairie area it may be worth your while to also add the City Eden Prairies P25 system too. They run there own P25 trunked system for all City services. Some of there talkgroups are on both ARMER and some are only on the City System. Eden Prairie and Bloomington have some of the must Robust talkgroup set ups because they both came to ARMER from city owned trunked networks, where all the other city's and counties were just on conventional systems.

 

[mnrick]

Steve, Thanks for the advice. I do live in Bloomington and the Bloomington system is the first one I programmed in, it is in scanlist # 1. Eden Prairie is in #2.

Do you think it would be unusual if I cannot pick up Minneapolis very good if I was in Bloomington? I got them programmed in and it is poor quality. Do you think it would work if I put the Hennepin County towers on that list?

Also, what system does metro transit run off of? I put the transit police into my Minneapolis scan list, which is the Minneapolis N-S system.

 

[ofd8001]

Minneapolis N-S is really "iffy" in Bloomington. In September I stayed at a motel on the north side of the Mall of America and was able to receive Minneapolis N-S. Previously I stayed in motels on the south side of the Mall and could not.

An outside antenna, if possible, may be helpful.

The link below will take you to a webpage which shows the coverage maps for the sites in the Twin Cities area. They should give you an idea of what to expect where you live.

ARMER Coverage Maps

Also this webpage has some excellent, but perhaps dated, information on the ARMER system. Included in that are some talkgroups showing their Home system, which they are allowed to affiliate to when roaming and which they are denied affiliation privileges.

MN Metroscan Homepage

 

[mnrick]

Thank you for the info and links, I am in the SouthWest corner of Bloomington and looking at the map it looks like I will not be picking up anything off the Minneapolis N-S system. I was getting sporadic transmissions but it was in and out. Fire seemed to come in better than the police although I presume they all have equal strength radios.

How about the Transit Police? I was looking and they appear to be on the State System (Mpls City Center).

Are there any links that might provide unit ID's, like 48-- is Bloomington and so on? I have already figured out a few of them but it would be nice to have a list.

Also, are these scanners like my Pro-652 optimized for 800mhz reception and not real good at VHF? The Bloomington Fire pagers are on 154.070 and that is a little fuzzy, Edina is worse but then I can get Minnetonka on 151.280 fairly well.

If that is the case maybe I could keep an eye out for a cheap VHF/UHF analog scanner on craiglist or something, or I have read other posts here of people finding them at Salvation Army stores for $10 and so on.

This will be a continued learning process for me and I thank you for your continued advise.

Rick

 

[ofd8001]

The link in post #10 will give all known unit IDs. For example 5800's are Maple Grove PD. (If you discover new ones, please submit them to the Wiki).

It sounds like you are just on the fringe of reception for Minneapolis N-S. If you are "smitten" with the scanning hobby, you may consider an outdoor or attic mounted antenna. That might be just what it takes to pull them in. That would also help with the VHF "stuff". (If you have Christmas lights on your roof, when take them down you might bring the scanner up on the roof and see what happens - you'll have the ladder up and power there.)

Bloomington fire uses that 154.07 for tone and voice paging of their firefighters, so you'd think it would have a storng signal in your area. I'm at a loss to explain why this comes in fuzzy for you, other than perhaps some electronic device near your scanner may be de-sensitizing your scanner. You could try moving it to another room in your home and see what happens. Also you could try taking the scanner outside around 6:00 PM and listen to BFD, as I think that's the time they do their nightly tone test. (I have a special interest in Bloomington fire. I'm a retired fire chief and my cousin was a Bloomington firefighter. He inspired me to get into the fire service).

Again, an outside or attic antenna would deal with this predicament.

I'm unfamiliar with your model scanner, so I can't speak with certainty, but I would imagine that all scanners are "equal" on all bands. That's to say they are not optimized for 800 versus VHF. You can get after-market antennas that would "pull in" a certain band better than others.

You are correct on Transit police. Their "Home" system is the Minneapolis City Center. If their units get out of range of this site, they can affilitate with the Anoka, Minneapolis N-S, and Hennepin East sites.

 

[johnmoe1]

looking at the map it looks like I will not be picking up anything off the Minneapolis N-S system. I was getting sporadic transmissions but it was in and out.

That seems strange to me. Have you tried moving your scanner a few inches?

I am way down in Farmington and get good enough reception of Anoka, Carver/Scott, Dakota, Goodhue, Hennepin East, City Center, Minneapolis N/S, Ramsey and Washington. I would like Rice and Hennepin West to be better. (I will admit to not using a traditional scanner, but that should count against me not for me. This has been my first attempt at anything involving radio and I don't really know what I am doing.)

Fire seemed to come in better than the police although I presume they all have equal strength radios.

Remember, you are not listening to a signal direct from their radios. You are listening to the signal from the tower.

 

[stmills]

I monitor transit police on Hennepin East 2-001 with good results.
Here is a link to a Google map I have that has all the tower sites for Each system in the Metro.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zpbmh9-K1KVQ.kEJGxJgeLbQU&msa=0

 

[mnrick]

Unfortunately I live in a apartment and cannot do any outside antenna. The scanner is on my desk near a computer, that could be a issue. I get good reception of all the west metro groups and scott/Carver come in good, so does Dakota but for now I may have to give up on Minneapolis.

I put the State Patrol in on city center and got nothing. Then I changed it to East and West Hennepin and got action right away. I was able to listen to a Pursuit on the 2400 main (74) that started on 94 and ended near the Wakota bridge.

I will try MTC police on E Hennepin. I want to set up a medical scan group where I might put Allina, North and whatever else I can think of. I already have HCMC in with my Hennepin County list and that comes in good with a lot of Minneapolis calls.

So, while my reception is not ideal I do have a lot to listen to. My original intent was just to listen to Bloomington. I had been a regular Broadcastify.com listener for awhile before I decided to buy my own scanner recently. I live about 3 blocks from BFD station 5 and hear sirens at least once a day, like to know what is going on.