Mobile Scanner Legality Question

[benjaminfs733]

How would one go about trying to get that law changed in KY? Other than writing a member of the General Assembly, or is that the way? I would love to make a proposal.

 

[Tech-Anthony]

Since I know what county you live in you will have to contact either Jody Richards you can find how to contact him by clicking here or Jim DeCesare by clicking here depending on what district you live in. Since it would have to first start in the house before being sent to the senate. Let them know the statue you are wanting to have changed. Explain the reasons for which you think it would be a good idea to change it. Let them know you are not alone on this statue I for one will contact my representative.

 

[unitcharlie]

I will be writing soon....

 

[benjaminfs733]

Excellent, sounds like we are going to start a movement. I will get a recommendation together over the next several days and see what you all think. Then we can let our Reps. know what we think.

 

[Stick0413]

Since Expedia and Delta messed my flight back from Reno up (in May) I will be going through the Cincinnati airport. This is the only place I will have a problem with my scanner durning the whole trip. Guess I will have to go ahead and get my Ham ticket before then. Was thinking about it and now this gives me a real good reason to do it.

 

[unitcharlie]

Hi Stick0413..... this is the site I used to hone my test skills HAM TEST ... I had my new ticket in hand in a about a month from the first practice session. One side effect of the new legality is your ability now to HAM and even get into things like storm spotting, etc.... Be sure, if you get your ticket, and travel thru Kentucky, to carry a copy of the law with you and a miniature of your license (after you are licensed go to the ULS site and request a duplicate of your license so you can keep a large and small one with you when you are mobile... I have a mini-ticket in my ID holder that I wear at work, it has saved me a few times already!)

 

[Stick0413]

Thanks for the help! I've always been a good test taker so that is a plus too. I think I would be intrested in eventually getting into storm spotting because weather has always been something that I have always been interested in.

 

[n1das]

How does KY's law get around the "it shall NOT be unlawful..." clause in Public Law 99-508, the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 (ECPA '86)?

ECPA '86 specifically says among other things "...It shall NOT be unlawful to intercept radio transmissions made by police..." ECPA'86 doesn't specify WHICH radio transmissions made by police shall not be unlawful to monitor or WHERE they can be monitored with WHAT equipment. ECPA'86 simply states that it SHALL NOT BE UNLAWFUL to monitor them, period.

States can prohibit operating a motor vehicle if it's equipped with a scanner (i.e., "mobile scanner") but KY's law appears to also prohibit POSSESSION, even if not in a vehicle. And it prohibits possession for what purpose?...to outright prohibit RECEPTION...something that ECPA'86 (federal law) specifically states SHALL NOT be prohibited!

How does KY get around the "it shall not be unlawful" clause in ECPA'86? Looks like there's grounds for federal preemption of KY's law!

 

[mastr]

Nice try. The actual wording is,

" (4)Section 2511(2) of title 18, United
States Code, is amended by adding at the
end the following:
"(g)it shall not be unlawful under (HERE IT IS) this
chapter or chapter 121 this title for
Post p. 1860 any person(END)---
"(i)to intercept or access an
electronic communication made through
an electronic communication system
that is configured so that such
electronic communication is readily
accessible to the general public...

In simple terms, the FEDS don't mind if you listen to KY police,
but nothing prohibits the Commonwealth of KY from making it illegal.

 

[n1das]

In simple terms, the FEDS don't mind if you listen to KY police,
but nothing prohibits the Commonwealth of KY from making it illegal.

That's not how I read it...


(4)Section 2511(2) of title 18, United
States Code, is amended by adding at the
end the following:
"(g)it shall not be unlawful under this
chapter or chapter 121 this title for
Post p. 1860 any person---
"(i)to intercept or access an
electronic communication made through
an electronic communication system
that is configured so that such
electronic communication is readily
accessible to the general public;
"(ii) to intercept any radio
communication which is transmitted--
"(I) by any station for the use
of the general public, or that
relates to ships, aircraft, vehicles,
or persons in distress;
"(II)by any governmental, law
enforcement, civil defense, private
land mobile, or public safety
communications system, including
police and fire, readily accessible
to the general public;
"(III) by a station operating on
an authorized frequency within the
bands allocated to the amateur,
citizens band, or general mobile
radio services; or
"(IV) by any marine or
aeronautical communications system;
"(iii) to engage in any conduct
which--
"(I) is prohibited by section 633
47 USC 553. of the Communications Act of 1934;or
"(II) is excepted from the
application of section 705(a) of the
47 USC 605. Communications Act of 1934 by section
705(b) of that Act;
"(iv) to intercept any wire or
electronic communication the
transmission of which is causing
harmful interference to any lawfully
operating station or consumer
electronic equipment, to the extent
necessary to identify the source of
such interference; or
"(v) for other users of the same
frequency to intercept any radio
communication made through a system that
utilizes frequencies monitored by
individuals engaged in the provision or
the use of such system,, if such
communication is not scrambled or
encrypted


Since I'm also ham, if I'm ever in KY, I'll do all of my monitoring in KY on my portable and mobile ham equipment instead of my scanners. For monitoring APCO-25 stuff, I'll use my APCO-25 portables (programmed as RECEIVE ONLY on all non-ham freqs) and also use the same equipment on the ham bands. My APCO-25 equipment technically counts as Ham equipment since I've got ham freqs I use programmed into it.

 

[benjaminfs733]

The exception in the statue reads as follows:

"An individual who possesses such a radio, provided it is
capable of receiving radio transmissions only and is not
capable of sending or transmitting radio messages, at his
place of residence..."

So basically the law is really only aimed at mobile usage. However, I do see where it could be enforced in locations other than at a residence, although I doubt it ever has been done. Please don't interpret this as any type of approval of the law.

 

[k9rzz]

So ... when I'm visiting relatives this spring, as long as I have a copy of my ham license along, I can keep my scanner in the car?

John K9RZZ
Milwaukee, WI

 

[unitcharlie]

Hi John:
i'd keep a copy of the law with me as well, kinda tuck everything in the same envelope with your registration and insurance papers..... This law is kinda like a sieve because even if you are in the right, as a licensed HAM, your gear can still be taken and escheated to the Commonwealth of Kentucky...

 

[mastr]

Now I know why they say, "you can lead a horse to water..."

 

[Stick0413]

Just a question. Doesn't look like I am going to have time before May to get my ham ticket. Well I stated on my scanner website www.scantheair.com saying that I was just going to keep it in my bag when I was at the Cincinnati airport. Well I posted a topic in the Tavern about the website and someone from Kentucky said that it would not be illegal to have in the airport. That it only applies when you are in a vehicle, etc. I am just making sure this is right. Better to be safe than sorry

 

[benjaminfs733]

As far as I (and others I work with) read the law it only applies to a vehicles.

 

[N4AOF]

As far as I (and others I work with) read the law it only applies to a vehicles.

Actually the law applies anywhere the police feel like enforcing it. Our beloved Commonwealth Attorney Generals have issued decisions that the law covers any radio that COULD BE programmed for police channels even if it was not so programmed at the time; and that it covers base station radios in a car even if not connected and not capable of mobile operation. Note also that the law does not make any mention of scanners - it covers any radio or other aparatus that can receive police signals - which would include any TV or radio that tunes the UHF TV band with analog tuning.

The exemptions are worded in a way that defies grammar and logic, but as mentioned by others, any attempt to fix this law is vigorously opposed by the law enforcement lobby.

Bottom line, in Kentucky, if you manage to annoy a cop while in possession of anything even vaguely resembling a radio, you stand a very good chance of being prosecuted. You may be convicted even if you can clearly demonstrate that you are covered under one (or more) of the exemptions or if you can demonstrate that your radio does NOT violate the law (Yes, it happened to a particularly annoying twit despite being a licensed ham radio operator, in possession of his license, and carrying a radio shack HT that cannot function out of band!). Eventually this law might be overturned if it is ever used against someone with more money than sense, but until then just keep a copy of the law AND your ham license with you and try to avoid unnecessarily annoying the cops.

Also note that Kentucky law authorizes confication of the equipment regardless of whether or not charges are even brought, much less needing a conviction.

 

[Stick0413]

Actually the law applies anywhere the police feel like enforcing it. Our beloved Commonwealth Attorney Generals have issued decisions that the law covers any radio that COULD BE programmed for police channels even if it was not so programmed at the time; and that it covers base station radios in a car even if not connected and not capable of mobile operation. Note also that the law does not make any mention of scanners - it covers any radio or other aparatus that can receive police signals - which would include any TV or radio that tunes the UHF TV band with analog tuning.

The exemptions are worded in a way that defies grammar and logic, but as mentioned by others, any attempt to fix this law is vigorously opposed by the law enforcement lobby.

Bottom line, in Kentucky, if you manage to annoy a cop while in possession of anything even vaguely resembling a radio, you stand a very good chance of being prosecuted. You may be convicted even if you can clearly demonstrate that you are covered under one (or more) of the exemptions or if you can demonstrate that your radio does NOT violate the law (Yes, it happened to a particularly annoying twit despite being a licensed ham radio operator, in possession of his license, and carrying a radio shack HT that cannot function out of band!). Eventually this law might be overturned if it is ever used against someone with more money than sense, but until then just keep a copy of the law AND your ham license with you and try to avoid unnecessarily annoying the cops.

Also note that Kentucky law authorizes confication of the equipment regardless of whether or not charges are even brought, much less needing a conviction.

I know it applies to vehicles. My question is does it apply in public when you are not in a vehicle?

 

[unitcharlie]

Possession outside one's domicle is illegal per the law except as noted in the exemptions section.... although the first section says they are illegal to possess (but that is the beauty of this law, concise and to the point!) the fourth section says it is ok in one's home.... go figure!

A HAM Ticket is the safest way to get around the law as written... pass the test, keep the wallet sized ticket with the scanner.

432.570 Possession or use of radio capable of sending or receiving
police messages restricted; Penalty; Enforcement

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person except a member of a police department or police force or an official with written authorization from the head of a department which regularly maintains a police radio system authorized or licensed by the Federal Communications Commission, to have in his or her possession...any mobile
radio set or apparatus capable of either receiving or transmitting radio or other messages or signals within the wavelength or channel now or which may hereafter be allocated by the Federal Communications Commission, or its successor, for the purpose of police radios...

4(c) An individual who possesses such a radio, provided it is capable of receiving radio transmissions only and is not capable of sending or transmitting radio messages, at his
place of residence...

 

[Stick0413]

Possession outside one's domicle is illegal per the law except as noted in the exemptions section.... although the first section says they are illegal to possess (but that is the beauty of this law, concise and to the point!) the fourth section says it is ok in one's home.... go figure!

A HAM Ticket is the safest way to get around the law as written... pass the test, keep the wallet sized ticket with the scanner.

That is how I read the law too but have had a few people from KY say that it applies just to cars. I was going to get my HAM ticket before I go out there but it doesnt look like I will be able to until after I get back.