Mobile Scanner Legality Question

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mike445

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
593
Location
Hope AR USA
IS this a loophole??

rdale said:
Originally Posted by KG4LJF
Isn't there a loophole in the law somewhere that states as long as the device is able to recieve NOAA weather boradcasts, it's also exempt from the scanner law?


If you read the first post, which contains the law, I think you'll notice that loophole does not exist.

Actually it does indeed exist. the law at the beginning of this thread is not updated to ammendment 6. Here is ammendment 6:


(6) The secretary of the Finance and Administration Cabinet is hereby empowered by
issuance of a secretary's order to exempt from the prohibitions and penalties of this
section the possession and use of any and all radio communication equipment that
he finds is necessary to be owned and used by members of the general public and
other nonpolice persons for utilization in the N.O.A.A. weather radio system.

SO! What does that mean for us who have scanners installed in our vehicles and regularly drive through Kentucky? My scanners are capable of receiving NOAA stations and warnings.
Mike
 

unitcharlie

a Kentucky DB Admin...
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
2,853
Location
on the road to Nonesuch, Ky...
Mike445 said:
What does that mean for us who have scanners installed in our vehicles and regularly drive through Kentucky? My scanners are capable of receiving NOAA stations and warnings.
Mike

Unfortunately, if you don't meet one of the law's exemptions, you are illegal. The WX radios are listed only because they broadcast on freqs used by some law enforcement, hence, the only legal wx radio (in Kentucky) is one which receives only the authorized NOAA Weather Radio Freqs... unless you fal within one of the expemted groups your only safety is with a HAM ticket.
 

cbrrider06

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
85
Ham question???

I am planning on getting my ham ticket. I have looked the practice test, and I was wondering if the practice questions are the same as the actual test? Also I would like to know if there any web sites that give like a tutor on info for the test thanks. Jason
 

hankv

Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
371
Location
Raleigh, NC
cbrrider06 said:
I am planning on getting my ham ticket. I have looked the practice test, and I was wondering if the practice questions are the same as the actual test? Also I would like to know if there any web sites that give like a tutor on info for the test thanks. Jason
There are several sites that have practice tests using the actual questions. I tried several of them and found that I prefer This One.
 

W9GC

Silent Key
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
0
Location
Gulf Shores, AL
Out of band transceivers - Federal-level preemption makes it LEGAL

Below is a FEDERAL-level preemption of lower-level state and local laws which regulate the reception of public service frequencies. (PR 91-36) In most cases, licensed amateur radio operators (hams) are exempted in the laws; but not always.

The following document makes your out-of-band (OOB) capable mobile transceivers legal everywhere in the U.S.

It is a Memorandum, Opinion and ORDER, and it carries the same level of authority as actual law, and it must be obeyed.

This document has been out for nearly 15 years, and yet most people are not even aware of it's existence.

In it, the FCC holds that lower-level laws restricting the usage out-of-band-capable transceivers by licensed hams are preeempted by federal law. Should your transceiver ever be confiscated for scanning out-of-band of the ham frequencies, use this, and and it should get you out of trouble. I recommend printing out the PDF version (link provided below). The PDF version comes straight from the FCC Record. It's likely that this STILL will not prevent a ticket and/or confiscation; but now you have something to take with you to the courtroom at least.

(Note that PR 91-36 ONLY applies to the use of OOB-capable amateur transceivers, and not to actual scanners.)

LINK:
http://65.118.9.114/PR91-36.pdf
 

W9GC

Silent Key
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
0
Location
Gulf Shores, AL
Here is the text of the above-linked document:

________________________________________


  • Before the
    Federal Communications Commission,
    Washington, DC 20554

    (PR Docket 91-36)

    In the Matter of

    Federal Preemption of State
    and Local Laws Concerning Amateur
    Operator Use of Transceivers
    Capable of Reception Beyond
    Amateur Service Frequency Allocations
MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER

Adopted: August 20, 1993; | Released: September 3, 1993

By the Commission:

I. INTRODUCTION

▪ 1. On November 14, 1989, the American Radio Relay League, Incorporated (ARRL), filed a Motion for a Declaratory Ruling requesting that the Commission preempt certain state statutes and local ordinances affecting transceivers used by Amateur Radio Service Licensees. The laws referenced by the ARRL prohibit the possession of such transceivers if they are capable of the reception of communications on certain frequencies other than amateur service frequencies. On March 15, 1990, we released a public notice inviting comment on ARRL's request. In addition, on February 28, 1991, we released a Notice of Inquiry that solicited additional comment to assist us in making a decision in this matter. This Memorandum Opinion and Order grants the request to the extent indicated herein.

II. BACKGROUND

▪ 2. The ARRL motion discusses state statutes and local ordinances commonly known as "scanner laws," the violation of which may be a criminal misdemeanor with the possibility of equipment confiscation. Specifically, ARRL notes that state statutes in New Jersey and Kentucky (which have subsequently been changed --see paragraph 3, infra) prohibit the possession of a mobile short-wave radio capable of receiving frequencies assigned by the Commission for, inter alia, police use. In addition, ARRL states that local ordinances exist throughout the United States that similarly prohibit the possession of such mobile short-wave radios without a locally-issued permit. Therefore, ARRL explains, scanner laws can, inter alia, render amateur radio licensees traveling interstate by automobile vulnerable to arrest and to the seizure of their radio equipment by state or local police.

▪ 3. Since the ARRL motion was filed with the Commission, New Jersey repealed its statute and substituted a new, narrowly tailored scanner law that only applies in the criminal context. In addition, Kentucky amended its statute by adding an exemption applying to amateur radio licensees. As a result, there no longer appears to be any state scanner law with a deleterious effect on the legitimate operations of amateur radio service licensees. Nonetheless, the preemption issue raised by the ARRL motion remains timely because it appears that some local scanning ordinances remain in effect without safeguards to protect the legitimate use of such radios by our licensees.

III. MOTION, INQUIRY AND COMMENTS

A. The ARRL Motion.

▪ 4. ARRL makes two arguments in support of preemption. First, it states that the receiver sections of the majority of commercially available amateur station transceivers can be tuned slightly past the edges of the amateur service bands to facilitate adequate reception up to the end of the amateur service bands. ARRL seeks a preemption ruling that would permit amateur operators to install in vehicles transceivers that are capable of this "incidental" reception. Although ARRL's formal request is couched in terms of this first, technical point, the request focuses almost entirely on a second, broader issue of whether state and local authorities should be permitted, via the scanner laws, to prohibit the capability of radio reception by amateur operators on public safety and special emergency frequencies that are well outside the amateur service bands.

▪ 5. Concerning the broader issue, ARRL argues that amateur operators have special needs for broadscale "out-of-band" reception, and that the marketplace has long recognized these needs by offering accommodating transceivers. According to ARRL, all commercially manufactured amateur service HF transceivers and the majority of such VHF and UHF transceivers have non-amateur service frequency reception capability well beyond the "incidental" -- they can receive across a broad spectrum of frequencies, including the police and other public safety and special emergency frequencies here at issue. This additional capability, argues ARRL, permits amateur operators to participate in a variety of safety activities, some in conjunction with the military or the National Weather Service. In both cases, reception on non-amateur frequencies is necessary. Such activities benefit the public, according to ARRL, especially in times of emergency, and some require the mobile use of the amateur stations. ARRL states that, in addition, the vast majority of amateur operators take part in these mobile activities, and that the widespread enforcement of scanner laws would render illegal the possession of virtually all modern amateur mobile equipment. ARRL states that, as a result of scanner laws, "several dozen instances of radio seizure and criminal arrest [have been] suffered by licensed amateurs."

B. The Inquiry and Comments.

▪ 6. The Commission's February 28, 1991 Inquiry solicited additional information concerning the technical and financial feasibility of modifying existing amateur service mobile transceivers to render them incapable of receiving police or other public safety channels. We also asked for information concerning the current and future marketplace availability of mobile equipment meeting the restrictions of the laws and whether there is value in having an available pool of wide-band, mobile amateur equipment in the United States to meet emergency needs.

▪ 7. In response to the Inquiry, we received 115 comments and reply comments, of which the great majority are from individual amateurs who support the preemption. One commenter, the Michigan Department of State Police, states that although it cooperates with the amateur service during emergencies, it is concerned about isolated incidents of apparently unlawful actions taken by amateur licensees upon receipt of public safety communications outside of the amateur radio band. Therefore, it concludes that "there can be no beneficial need for amateur radio equipment to tune in public safety channels." Of the remaining comments received, only a few address the technical and marketplace questions described above. These comments are from individual amateur operators who state that existing wide-band transceivers cannot be modified to meet the restrictions of the scanner laws without substantial expense and that this situation will continue as new equipment becomes available. Despite our specific request in the Inquiry that manufacturers comment on these technical and financial questions, no manufacturer chose to respond on these points. We also received a few comments describing the prevalence of scanner laws nationwide. Finally, the National Communications System (NCS), of the Department of Defense, states in its comment that the federal government utilizes amateur operators in a number of programs requiring mobile, wide-band transceivers.

IV. DISCUSSION

▪ 8. There are three ways state and local laws may be preempted. First, Congress may expressly preempt the state or local law. Second, Congress may, through legislation, clearly indicate its intent to occupy the field of regulation, leaving "no room for the States to supplement." Last, and most important for this discussion,
  • [e]ven where Congress has not completely displaced state regulation in a specific area, state law [may be] nullified to the extent that it actually conflicts with federal law. Such a conflict arises when "compliance with both federal and state regulations is a physical impossibility,"...or when state law "stands as an obstacle to the accomplishment and execution of the full purposes and objectives of Congress."
Furthermore, "[f]ederal regulations have no less preemptive effect than federal statutes."

Continued...
 

W9GC

Silent Key
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
0
Location
Gulf Shores, AL
...Continued

▪ 9. The amateur service is regulated extensively under Part 97 of the Commission's Rules, 47 C.F.R. Part 97. As we have stated in the past:
  • [T]here is...a strong federal interest in promoting amateur communications. Evidence of this interest may be found in the comprehensive set of rules that the Commission has adopted to regulate the amateur service.
    Those rules set forth procedures for the licensing of stations and operators, frequency allocations, technical standards which amateur radio equipment must meet and operating practices which amateur operators must follow. We recognize the Amateur Radio Service as a voluntary, noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications. Moreover, the Amateur Radio Service provides a reservoir of trained operators, technicians and electronic experts who can be called on in times of national or local emergencies. By its nature, the Amateur Radio Service also provides the opportunity for individual operators to further international goodwill.
This federal interest in the amateur service is also reflected in Section 97.1 of our rules, 47 C.F.R. § 97.1, which provides that the amateur service exists to "continu[e] and exten[d]...the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art." This regulatory purpose is consistent with the Communications Act requirement that "t shall be the policy of the United States to encourage the provision of new technologies to the public."

▪ 10. The strong federal interest in the preservation and advancement of the amateur service is also demonstrated by Congress's recent recognition of the goals of the amateur service in a "Sense of Congress" provision in which Congress strongly encouraged and supported the amateur service. Congress therein directed all Government agencies to take into account the valuable contribution of amateurs when considering actions affecting the amateur radio service. We believe that the strong federal interest in supporting the emergency services provided by amateurs cannot be fully accomplished unless amateur operators are free to own and operate their stations to the fullest extent permitted by their licenses and are not unreasonably hampered in their ability to transport their radio transmitting stations across state and local boundaries for purposes of transmitting and receiving on authorized frequencies. Indeed, as a result of advances in technology making smaller, lighter weight radios commercially available, the Commission has expressly amended its rules to facilitate and encourage unrestricted mobile amateur operations. As we noted in a recent rule making proceeding to modify the rules governing the amateur radio service,
  • In the age of the microprocessor and the integrated circuit [amateur] equipment is highly portable. It is common for amateur operators to carry hand-held transceivers capable of accessing many local repeaters in urban areas and also capable of reasonably good line-of-sight communication. It appears that the concept of fixed station operation no longer carries with it the same connotation it did previously. For this reason, we propose to delete current rules that relate to station operation away from the authorized fixed station location.
As a consequence of these changes, the rules now expressly authorize amateur service operation "at points where the amateur service is regulated by the FCC," that is, at fixed and mobile locations throughout the United States. Furthermore, the Commission's Rules do not in any way prohibit an amateur service transceiver from having out-of-band reception capability.

▪ 11. Against this background, we conclude that certain state and local laws, as described below, conflict with the Commission's regulatory scheme designed to promote a strong amateur radio service. Scanner laws that prohibit the use of transceivers that transmit and receive amateur frequencies because they also receive public safety, special emergency or other radio service frequencies frustrate most legitimate amateur service mobile operations through the threat of penalties such as fines and the confiscation of equipment. As noted by ARRL, virtually all modern amateur service equipment in use today can receive transmissions on the public safety and special emergency frequencies at issue, and the majority of amateur stations are operated in a mobile fashion. Consequently, the mobile operations of the vast majority of amateurs are affected by such laws. In addition, the record statements by amateurs that the costs would be substantial to modify existing transceivers are unchallenged. The scanner laws, then, essentially place the amateur operator in the position of either foregoing mobile operations by simply avoiding all use of the equipment in vehicles or other locations specified in the laws, or risking fines, or equipment confiscation. This very significant limitation on amateurs operating rights runs counter to the express policies of both Congress and the Commission to encourage and support amateur service operations, including mobile operations, and impermissibly encroaches on federal authority over amateur operators. It conflicts directly with the federal interest in amateur operators being able to transmit and receive on authorized amateur service frequencies.

▪ 12. For these reasons, we find it necessary to preempt state and local laws that effectively preclude the possession in vehicles or elsewhere of amateur service transceivers by amateur operators merely on the basis that the transceivers are capable of reception on public safety, special emergency, or other radio service frequencies, the reception of which is not prohibited by federal law. We find that, under current conditions and given the types of equipment available in the market today, such laws prevent amateur operators from using their mobile stations to the full extent permitted under the Commission's Rules and thus are in clear conflict with federal objectives of facilitating and promoting the Amateur Radio Service. We recognize the state law enforcement interest present here, and we do not suggest that state regulation in this area that reasonably attempts to accommodate amateur communications is preempted. This decision does not pertain to scanner laws narrowly tailored to the use of such radios, for example, for criminal ends such as to assist flight from law enforcement personnel. We will not, however, suggest the precise language that must be contained in state and local laws. We do find that state and local laws must not restrict the possession of amateur transceivers simply because they are capable of reception of public safety, special emergency or other radio service frequencies, the reception of which is not prohibited by federal law, and that a state or local permit scheme will not save from preemption an otherwise objectionable law. Finally, we note, as stated by APCO in comments filed previously in this proceeding, that any public safety agency that desires to protect the confidentiality of its communications can do so through the use of technology such as scrambling or encryption.

V. CONCLUSION

▪ 13. We hold that state and local laws that preclude the possession in vehicles or elsewhere of amateur radio service transceivers by amateur operators merely on the basis that the transceivers are capable of the reception of public safety, special emergency, or other radio service frequencies, the reception of which is not prohibited by federal law, are inconsistent with the federal objectives of facilitating and promoting the amateur radio service and, more fundamentally, with the federal interest in amateur operator's being able to transmit and receive on authorized amateur service frequencies. We therefore hold that such state and local laws are preempted by federal law.

▪ 14. Accordingly, IT IS ORDERED that the request for a declaratory ruling filed by the ARRL IS GRANTED to the extent indicated herein and in all other respects IS DENIED.


FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

William F. Caton
Acting Secretary
 

unitcharlie

a Kentucky DB Admin...
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
2,853
Location
on the road to Nonesuch, Ky...
gc505 said:
(Note that PR 91-36 ONLY applies to the use of OOB-capable amateur transceivers, and not to actual scanners.)
This is the problem: PR 91-36 applies to TRANSCEIVERS, not scanners; one of the exemptions in the Kentucky law is possession of a HAM ticket. Kentucky law is pretty clear, outside your home unless you fall into one of the exempted classes, you are not legal. That means, unless you qualify under one of the exemptions, the law enforcement officer making a traffic stop or answering a complaint shall take your gear "...and said property may be ordered destroyed, forfeited, or escheated as above provided without a conviction of the person charged with violating this Section."

The best defense is a HAM ticket... study with a local HAM group (although not an active HAM, I will help you find a group if you like to help study or take a radio theory and construction class), study on-line, take and pass the test, carry the wallet size HAM ticket AND a copy of the most recent law with you and enjoy.
 

n4voxgill

Silent Key
Joined
Dec 15, 2000
Messages
2,588
Location
New Braunfels, TX
V. CONCLUSION

▪ 13. We hold that state and local laws that preclude the possession in vehicles or elsewhere of amateur radio service transceivers by amateur operators merely on the basis that the transceivers are capable of the reception of public safety, special emergency, or other radio service frequencies, the reception of which is not prohibited by federal law, are inconsistent with the federal objectives of facilitating and promoting the amateur radio service and, more fundamentally, with the federal interest in amateur operator's being able to transmit and receive on authorized amateur service frequencies. We therefore hold that such state and local laws are preempted by federal law.

If a ham transceiver has been modified to transmit out of band, it is no longer compliant for Part 97 preemption. It actually is not legal under any FCC rule as it is not type accepted for Part 90 either. Amateur radios can only transmit in limited band like 144 to 147.990 in VHF.
 

W9GC

Silent Key
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
0
Location
Gulf Shores, AL
NOTE:

I posted the above federal preemption as a reference for everybody; not necessarily only those in KY where an amateur license exempts a scanner user.

I would have posted the above law in a forum/thread designated for the discussion of scanner laws, but I failed to find one.
 

nashscan

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Messages
147
Location
Franklin, TN
hankv said:
There are several sites that have practice tests using the actual questions. I tried several of them and found that I prefer This One.

I second the recommendation. I used this website after he posted it and practiced for a few hours a day for a few days. I took my HAM test on Saturday and passed easily. Getting the technician ticket has never been easier. I plan on travelling through Kentucky with enough antennas to talk to E.T. soon.
 

mikepdx

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
856
Location
Corbett, OR USA
KG4LJF said:
Some states are smart... Think about it.. IF you were going to break into a jewelry store and grab some rings and necklaces, and you had access to a police scanner, why wouldn't you take it along for the heist?

Of course, who said you had to DRIVE there...

So, the burglar/thief disregards the law prohibiting burglary and theft,
but he changes his plan about carrying a scanner in the commission of
that crime out of fear of the mobile scanner law?
Uh, huh. Sure he does.

A useless law.
This law makes criminals of honest hobbyists.
Think about it.

Some states are smart?
Out of the fifty, I have a hard time naming just one.
 
Last edited:

Viper43

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
3,272
hankv said:
There are several sites that have practice tests using the actual questions. I tried several of them and found that I prefer This One.

Thanks for posting this, I took a couple tests then went out and took the real one, passed easily :)

V
 

unitcharlie

a Kentucky DB Admin...
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
2,853
Location
on the road to Nonesuch, Ky...
Just make it a habit to carry a copy of your ticket and a copy of the Kentucky Scanner law with you in the car.... I have copies of both in the same envelope as my registration and insurance card.
 

Viper43

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
3,272
unitcharlie said:
Just make it a habit to carry a copy of your ticket and a copy of the Kentucky Scanner law with you in the car.... I have copies of both in the same envelope as my registration and insurance card.


My registration and insurance cards stay with me. A buddy had his car stolen and a cop stopped the guy, the guy told the cop his name (actually my friends name) and said he left his wallet home. The cop ran the name and it came back OK and let him go. My friend didn't know the car was missing as he was sleeping (he worked nights). The guy who stole the car robbed a store an hour later. The cop remembered the license # and went straight to my friends, they broke the door down and took him out of bed. The cop then realized he wasn't the one he stopped earlier, thats when they realized the car was stolen. They found the car later burning but never have caught the guy.
Leaving your information in the car is just asking for trouble.

V
 

jerk

Active Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Messages
2,448
Location
jerkville
Viper43 said:
My registration and insurance cards stay with me. A buddy had his car stolen and a cop stopped the guy, the guy told the cop his name (actually my friends name) and said he left his wallet home. The cop ran the name and it came back OK and let him go. My friend didn't know the car was missing as he was sleeping (he worked nights). The guy who stole the car robbed a store an hour later. The cop remembered the license # and went straight to my friends, they broke the door down and took him out of bed. The cop then realized he wasn't the one he stopped earlier, thats when they realized the car was stolen. They found the car later burning but never have caught the guy.
Leaving your information in the car is just asking for trouble.

V
Most smart cops would have asked for license descriptors, in other words height and weight, hair color, race along with that to double-check the informaiton. This cops was lazy and failed at his job.

That would have caught the bad guy with the original crime.

AL
 

Viper43

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
3,272
newsalan said:
Most smart cops would have asked for license descriptors, in other words height and weight, hair color, race along with that to double-check the informaiton. This cops was lazy and failed at his job.

That would have caught the bad guy with the original crime.

AL

Very very few officers ask for discriptions off the license, although in this case it would have made sense it wasn't done. The fact is many criminals are smart enough to look at the registration papers to get the name of the owner. In one case I heard about the guy said the car was loaned to him, since the police had no phone number to call and verify they let him go. As it turned out the car was stolen and the thief gave the officer a fictitoius license. When they finally got this guy he had 15 licesnes in two states with different names and dob's. He was part of a theft ring that was chopping expensive cars. They finally caught him BECAUSE the cars owner didn't leave the registration and insurance info and he couldn't claim the car was loaned to him by the owner.
They couldn't get the real owner in the one case because he didn't have a listed phone, in fact the phone was in his business name and the only other phone was a cell phone. I guess we need cell phone books now...

V
 

squad546

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
41
Location
KY
I once got 20 questions because the cop said I was saying my last name wrong, didn't match what the dispatcher said and didn't sound the way it looked on my paperwork. He wasn't amused when I told him "that's because I'm Polish ya moron". On topic though, when I was on the FD I never had any questions about my scanner or 2 way radio. So is a firefighter exempt from the law or not? I had always thought that all "emergency workers" weren't bound by the law.
 

unitcharlie

a Kentucky DB Admin...
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
2,853
Location
on the road to Nonesuch, Ky...
TEXT IN RED HAS BEEN EDITED TO CORRECT A CONFUSING STATEMENT

Until the law is written in such a way that anything that now or in the future capable of or, possibly capable of or remotely possibly capable of receiving any transmission on a past, currrent or future frequency that may be used by, could be used by or was used by a police force then about the only safe way to carry a scanner is to have a HAM Ticket.... apparently the only safe way to carry a radio capable of transmitting on "police frequencies" is to meet one of the few exemptions or drive a vehicle with aN OFFICIAL license plate issued by the state OWNING SAID VEHICLE....
TEXT IN RED HAS BEEN EDITED TO CORRECT A CONFUSING STATEMENT

The AG's opinion (which may or may not be valid with the current law) states:


OAG-82-126 (re: KRS 453.570). There is no authority for the chief of the fire
department to permit firemen within his department to install radios in
thier private vehicles for use in performance of official duties if
those radios are capable of receiving or transmitting police messages.


 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top