Model suggestions for Colorado State DTRS (Media Access)

[tcarro15]

I am an assignment manager at a local TV news station in Colorado Springs and we are working to upgrade our news desk. We have an agreement with Pueblo PD/FD to provide us access to their encrypted radio channels (they will program the radios for us) if we provide the radios. We had a couple of older XTS1500 model I radios that were programmed onto the encrypted channels, however one of them went MIA with a former photog, and they were not programmed to the cheyenne mountain site, only the pueblo simulcast so we couldn't hear anything from colorado springs anyway due to being out of range. I have agreed to allow PPD to deactive those radios as we will aquire some more radios that they can in-turn program for us so that we will have access to their encrypted channels from up here.

That said, I'm looking at specific model # suggestions for XTS and XTL model radios that will work on the DTRS with encryption, more specifically ones that are affordable refurbished so I can get an authorization to expense them.

Any help with knowing specifically which models will work on Colorado DTRS / Pueblo encrypted city PD and FD would be very helpful!

Thanks!

 

[K2NEC]

The best answer I can give you is to contact your local radio shop and they will help you or provide guidance. A radio hobby website isn't exactly the best place to be asking about finding subscriber radios to put on a system.

But since I'm here, get an APX and ditch the XTS.

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah, buying your own radios is a bad idea.

You need to know what they are willing to program. They usually won't program just any radio you show up with. They have codeplugs that are ready that they just dump into the radio with minor changes. That codeplug will be for a specific model radio.

Motorola radios also have a thing called Flash Codes. The Flash Code is the thing that activates the features in the radio. You need to know what Flash Code the radio must have to work on their system.

In other words, they should be telling you exactly which radio to buy, or selling/renting you one of theirs.

 

[MTS2000des]

Public Safety Communications Network | Office of Information Technology

oit.colorado.gov

All you need to do is reach out to them and ask. They are the ones who operate the network and should be the first "go to".

 

[ElroyJetson]

Two best options: Have them assign radios to you out of their own fleet, and pay a subscriber/maintenance fee, or at least have them give you a letter telling the local radio shop to provide you with radios that meet their specs. You will need to keep in mind that the radio will require yearly periodic maintenance and alignment if it's going to be on their system. That will probably be built into the agreement.

As for the radio type, APX series. No reason at this point to go looking for obsolete, no longer supported XTS/XTL radios.
APX6000 if you only need a single RF band. (Or 700/800 dual band.) If you need other bands as well, an APX8000 is the answer.

 

[DougG]

I know it’s probably sacrilege on the Motorola forum, but for this application a Unication G4/G5 will fit the bill perfectly, save you on the order of $5k-7k per radio vs a new APX, and do everything you need.

 

[ElroyJetson]

An excellent suggestion. One we often fail to think of. It checks every box. Including encryption support.

Harris has partnered up with Unication, as a matter of fact. I'm surprising Harris didn't just buy up Unication outright.

 

[KevinC]

I know it’s probably sacrilege on the Motorola forum, but for this application a Unication G4/G5 will fit the bill perfectly, save you on the order of $5k-7k per radio vs a new APX, and do everything you need.

Except it can't be inhibited if "lost". Since it will be keyloaded I'm sure they will want that capability.

 

[MississippiPI]

A couple of stations here in Mississippi went thru the same thing, bought the radios from the state and allowed the radio shop to program talkgroups with certain talkgroups in them for the newsrooms..good idea.

Btw, I just got back from COS and had a great time, picked up traffic fine

Be safe

 

[tcarro15]

For all those suggesting harris / unication stuff, there's no way on Earth any of these PDs I work with on a daily basis, are going to allow me to have a loaded radio that they can't deactivitate in the event they are lost or stolen, which is precisely the reason I'm having to get new radios for Pueblo PD, one of the two we purchased externally and had PPD program in 2018 onto their encrypted channels went missing with a photog that departed from our employment, and I personally authorized both of them to be deactivated for the time being because the one I have in my posession has a shot battery and needs a new charging dock. I will have them reprogram it once I figure out the others I want. This is an H66Uxxxxxxx XTS1500 (model 1 with just a screen, no dtmf or menu buttons).

I looked at the Unication G5 option to eliminate my simulcast reception issues with CSFD (I have an XTS5000 encrypted CSPD HT on my desk with an agreement from the city but it doesn't have FD in it) but now I'm going to just request a second radio with FD in it to avoid the simulcast chop I get on my WS1065 scanner, instead of spending $700 on an SDS200 or similar cost of a G5. It'll be far more cost effective for our station than purchasing a simulcast capable receiver.

As for pueblo PD, I'm going to reach out to their radio shop contact tomorrow to discuss possibly having them assign us radios from their fleet and us paying a rental agreement, or giving us a letter of authorization to purchase externally and have programmed by their radio shop with an periodic alignment agreement.

I've been playing radio since I was 4, licensed ham since 2007, fire/ems, 20yrs news photog, and a few years in emergency management / SAR, but my acuity with commercial radios is somewhat limited. I used to do a lot of programming back in the MTS2000 / HT1000 days but all this new stuff left me behind. Once everything went P25, my whole knowledgebase was jsut obsolete and I never caught myself up on the tech other than the basic knowledge needed to understand P25's operational function.

 

[K2NEC]

Just for clarification, Harris radios can be deactivated. They respond to commands, whereas Unications don't.

 

[wa8pyr]

Just for clarification, Harris radios can be deactivated. They respond to commands, whereas Unications don't.

Any P25-compliant two-way radio can be deactivated, it's part of the standard: Moneyrola, Harris, Tait, RELM, EF Kenwood, etc.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

For all those suggesting harris / unication stuff, there's no way on Earth any of these PDs I work with on a daily basis, are going to allow me to have a loaded radio that they can't deactivitate in the event they are lost or stolen, which is precisely the reason I'm having to get new radios for Pueblo PD, one of the two we purchased externally and had PPD program in 2018 onto their encrypted channels went missing with a photog that departed from our employment, and I personally authorized both of them to be deactivated for the time being because the one I have in my posession has a shot battery and needs a new charging dock. I will have them reprogram it once I figure out the others I want. This is an H66Uxxxxxxx XTS1500 (model 1 with just a screen, no dtmf or menu buttons).

I looked at the Unication G5 option to eliminate my simulcast reception issues with CSFD (I have an XTS5000 encrypted CSPD HT on my desk with an agreement from the city but it doesn't have FD in it) but now I'm going to just request a second radio with FD in it to avoid the simulcast chop I get on my WS1065 scanner, instead of spending $700 on an SDS200 or similar cost of a G5. It'll be far more cost effective for our station than purchasing a simulcast capable receiver.

As for pueblo PD, I'm going to reach out to their radio shop contact tomorrow to discuss possibly having them assign us radios from their fleet and us paying a rental agreement, or giving us a letter of authorization to purchase externally and have programmed by their radio shop with an periodic alignment agreement.

I've been playing radio since I was 4, licensed ham since 2007, fire/ems, 20yrs news photog, and a few years in emergency management / SAR, but my acuity with commercial radios is somewhat limited. I used to do a lot of programming back in the MTS2000 / HT1000 days but all this new stuff left me behind. Once everything went P25, my whole knowledgebase was jsut obsolete and I never caught myself up on the tech other than the basic knowledge needed to understand P25's operational function.

P25 conventional works just like analog conventional. Swap the tone for a NAC and understand there are some added functions like group IDs, radio IDs, and signaling (not all unusual if you have ever messed with MDC1200/Fleetsync/GE-STAR).

P25 trunking works just like SmartNet trunking (as it is loosely based off of it).

There isn't really anything fancy to how it all works now versus how it did with the preceeding technologies with some things added in here and there.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Going to get kind of technical here. Yes it is possible in theory to adjust practically any trunking radio so that it can NOT be deactivated remotely.

All inhibit/stun/kill/disable transactions that I am aware of require the radio to interact with the system controller and acknowledge the shutdown command and without the acknowledgement, the process won't complete. If the radio's transmitter is aligned in such a way as to make its signal unintelligible to the central controller, this will result in an incomplete transaction. If the technician who works on the radio were to put the deviation parameters totally out of bounds, and also drop TX output to as close to zero as is possible, then this would do it.

However, a lot of modern radios don't give TX deviation and audio balance control features to the technician using the normal maintenance and adjustment software. In the case of Harris XL radios, there are no adjustable parameters other than reference oscillator and TX output,
and even those are very limited adjustments that don't actually use the radio maintenance tools to perform the adjustments.

It's been years since I adjusted even an XTS5000 but I don't recall that I could adjust very many parameters in the transmitter. Not even general deviation.

I've never yet had the opportunity to adjust an APX, and I suspect they are similarly locked down. Either they're in spec or they go to higher level service at the factory.

 

[junior71]

APX is your best bet.

 

[N1XDS]

Would be better if you could talk to couple of Motorola radio dealers in your area and see what they can recommend for you guys and ladies to use for yourself if needed and listen to Police/Sheriff/Fire/EMS and everything else. The dealer may recommend a Motorola APX radio since it's one of the best radios out on today's radio market.

Can always what APX radio they sale the most of and see how the user of the radio likes the radio as well to get feedback from so when you guys and ladies pull the punch to get the recommended radio you all choose to use and listen to you all will be happy with it. Always good once received the radio ask questions about the radio, how does it perform (just incase someone who never used/operated a radio like the one you guys and ladies are wanting to get ideas what to get).

 

[rescuecomm]

The OP said the PD would provide encryption keys? Unications can do that?

 

[jeepsandradios]

The OP said the PD would provide encryption keys? Unications can do that?

My Unication has my secure keys.

 

[MTS2000des]

Absolutely. Unication will send the system owner documentation to complete and provide the tool to load encryption keys.

 

[otobmark]

Absolutely. Unication will send the system owner documentation to complete and provide the tool to load encryption keys.

Does this work with key server systems? Our statewide system requires a KVL loaded key (no software key).