• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

Motorola APCO P25 phase 2 handheld radios

Status
Not open for further replies.

Forts

Mentor
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
6,895
Location
Ontario, Canada
I prefer my G5 on MPSCS.... Being able to use the wildcard option and seamlessly roam around is SOOOOOO much easier than manually programming in handfuls of groups for different counties. And it never fails, there will be something happening on a group that you didn't program in. SDS200 is a good option too... mine performs quite well in Michigan. Any other scanner... not so much.
 

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
6,940
Location
Sector 001
Could the shop that programs the radios for first responders be able to program a transmit disabled system key into Northstar's radio, without being noticed by the system?
A system key either software or hardware, simply unlocks the trunking fields with in the CPS. As others have stated, there is no such thing as a TX Disabled system key.

No shop, that possesses system keys for a client trunk system, will program an unauthorized radio for some random off the street that wants to listen with a real radio. Even for NAS.

They would be risking losing that agencies business if it came to light that they had done that.

Op just needs to stick to scanners or Unication pagers.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
25,446
Location
United States
They would be risking losing that agencies business if it came to light that they had done that.

Which is -exactly- what I went through years ago with a Motorola shop. They started programming radios on our system without telling us. I found many radios on our system that were not authorized, duplicate ID's, probably more that we never found.

New system: No one gets a key outside my team, no shops, no one.

Op just needs to stick to scanners or Unication pagers.

Exactly.
 

Golay

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 28, 2016
Messages
540
.... No shop, that possesses system keys for a client trunk system, will program an unauthorized radio for some random off the street that wants to listen with a real radio. Even for NAS.

They would be risking losing that agencies business if it came to light that they had done that ....

Okay fine. First off one thing I said in my first post is I don't want to get into would they or should they. And of course someone had to go there.

And by using the term "system key " I phrased my question wrong. So here's my question again. Read carefully because this is all I'm curious about:

Let's say someone had in their grubby little paws a brand new in the box Motorola handheld that they got Bearcom or Commsource to sell to them. Could the same shop that programs the first responders radios also program Grubby Paw's radio for receive only without being detected by the system. Once again just to reiterate Kaitlyn, I'm not interested in would they or should they. Just if they did, would the sys ops see the radio.

Thanks.
 

MTS2000des

5B2_BEE00 Czar
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
5,696
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
Let's say someone had in their grubby little paws a brand new in the box Motorola handheld that they got Bearcom or Commsource to sell to them. Could the same shop that programs the first responders radios also program Grubby Paw's radio for receive only without being detected by the system. Once again just to reiterate Kaitlyn, I'm not interested in would they or should they. Just if they did, would the sys ops see the radio.

.
That shop would be putting their contracts at risk. As system key holders, they agree to NO UNAUTHORIZED PROGRAMMING of customer's trunking system, RX only or not- they signed agreements stating so. If they did and it was discovered, it would be hell fire for them, to endure. Anyone CAN do whatever they wish, the question is SHOULD they?
 

Golay

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 28, 2016
Messages
540
Which is -exactly- what I went through years ago with a Motorola shop. They started programming radios on our system without telling us. I found many radios on our system that were not authorized, duplicate ID's, probably more that we never found ...
So another hypothetical question. A volunteer fireman carries a radio issued to him. It's been programmed by the state to receive and transmit on fire channels for his area. It's issued to him in his name to carry. Could a buddy who's a radio tech for the state program other receive only channels into his friends radio without the state knowing he's listening?

Like in my previous post, not asking would or should. Simply could. Thanks.
 

Asunakiyori

Lurker
Joined
May 2, 2024
Messages
240
Location
Hiding in a Shed somewhere
......Now we are going into some touchy territory.... If you are not authorized to modify your DEPARTMENTS RADIO with out authorization, Don't.... You can and WILL lose your position Volunteer or not

and it wouldn't just be you... your buddy.. gets the axe and no shop will touch him after that
 
Last edited:

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
6,940
Location
Sector 001
Let's say someone had in their grubby little paws a brand new in the box Motorola handheld that they got Bearcom or Commsource to sell to them. Could the same shop that programs the first responders radios also program Grubby Paw's radio for receive only without being detected by the system.
Frankly, I doubt anyone at Bearcomm is intelligent enough to program a Motorola subscriber for NAS. Locally, they can't even program a Cap+ system, with RC4 encryption, to work, and their programming of subscribers on our provincial trunking system is absolutely atrocious.
Yea, that's not my name bud.
I'm not interested in would they or should they. Just if they did, would the sys ops see the radio.

Thanks.
The answer is: depends.
 

mbnv992

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
644
Location
AZ
I see where this thread is going. Just stop. Keep your “volunteer issue radio” with the STOCK programming. I wouldn’t even THINK of reading my department issued portable with CPS, let alone ADDING anything to it.
You can “hypothetical” all you want - I can clearly see where this is going. If you want other stuff added - just carry a G5 and be done with it.
 

chrismol1

P25 TruCking!
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
1,317
Which is -exactly- what I went through years ago with a Motorola shop. They started programming radios on our system without telling us. I found many radios on our system that were not authorized, duplicate ID's, probably more that we never found.

New system: No one gets a key outside my team, no shops, no one.



Exactly.
I know had a little issue like that. Chief has new radios for the FD. Chief brings them to the shop. Shop programs them. Chief keeps the old ones as spares. Of course with the same trunking IDs. Spares get out there, oops.

So another hypothetical question. A volunteer fireman carries a radio issued to him. It's been programmed by the state to receive and transmit on fire channels for his area. It's issued to him in his name to carry. Could a buddy who's a radio tech for the state program other receive only channels into his friends radio without the state knowing he's listening?

Like in my previous post, not asking would or should. Simply could. Thanks.
How long did it take for the Ohio MARCS thing to get exposed, a year? I think it was a volly that "borrowed" some IDs. Why is ID over there on site xx when it should be over there on site xx. I think it was duplicate that showed up across state that did them in. They will find out. I think it was the I35 bridge collapse, wasn't there the issue of people out of area tuned their radios to the statewide talkgroups and overloaded the system, there can be issues.
 
Last edited:

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
6,940
Location
Sector 001
I think it was the I35 bridge collapse, wasn't there the issue of people out of area tuned their radios to the statewide talkgroups and overloaded the system, there can be issues.
The problem with out of area people listening listening in, was on low RF channel sites(outside the disaster) dragging the talkgroups and busying the site, preventing local users access. It didn't 'over load the system per-say, just sites that didn't have adequate RF resources to carry the disaster comms AND local user comms.

Many systems use that learning lesson to limit talkgroups to geographic areas, to prevent that exact problem from happening. My provincial trunking system limits local users to their county sites, plus each surrounding county, specifically because of that learning lesson from that specific disaster.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
25,446
Location
United States
So another hypothetical question. A volunteer fireman carries a radio issued to him. It's been programmed by the state to receive and transmit on fire channels for his area. It's issued to him in his name to carry. Could a buddy who's a radio tech for the state program other receive only channels into his friends radio without the state knowing he's listening?

Not on a trunked system. They would still need the system key.

If I recall correctly, some radios won't let you mess with anything if you don't have a system key.
Other radios will let you change the non-trunked channels.

Also, remember that on a multisite system, NAS isn't going to work very well since the trunked system doesn't know that the radio is there and won't send traffic to the site. No public safety agency/employee should ever be relying on NAS to do their job. That's just idiotic. Any agency that needs access to a system/talkgroup needs to go through the proper procedures.

Like in my previous post, not asking would or should. Simply could. Thanks.

There's a lot of variables here and hypothetical questions that don't provide details are going to be difficult to answer accurately.

"Buddy" or not, there's some FCC rules that get in the way, and as suggested above, a -real- radio tech that wants to keep their job would probably not do stupid @$$ stuff like try to do NAS on an agency radio, add channels, or change anything without approval.
You will sometimes see wannabees/YouTubes experts try to mess with agency radios and often it doesn't go well.

This is one of the reasons why I password lock the read and write access to the radios. No one outside needs to be messing with the radios.
 

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
6,940
Location
Sector 001
Once again just to reiterate Kaitlyn, I'm not interested in would they or should they. Just if they did, would the sys ops see the radio.

Thanks.
If the tech knows how to program a Motorola subscriber to NAS, then the answer is no, the system operator would not know the radio is is listening.

However, if the tech screwed up and did not program the subscriber correctly, and the radio attempted to register and affiliate, then yes, they would know there is an unauthorized radio.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top