Motorola APX CPS, MacOS, M1/ARM and Virtual Machines

[human8472]

In the past when I had an Intel based Mac I would run my CPS on Windows inside of a Virtual Machine (using VMWare Fusion).

Now that I have an M1 based Mac (no longer x86 but ARM based CPU), I have been unable to use CPS inside of a virtual machine as the USB connection would not work under Windows for ARM.

Has anyone been able to circumnavigate this problem? Has anyone using an M1 Mac been able to run CPS and connect to their Motorola radio?

 

[a417]

In the past when I had an Intel based Mac I would run my CPS on Windows inside of a Virtual Machine (using VMWare Fusion).

Now that I have an M1 based Mac (no longer x86 but ARM based CPU), I have been unable to use CPS inside of a virtual machine as the USB connection would not work under Windows for ARM.

Has anyone been able to circumnavigate this problem? Has anyone using an M1 Mac been able to run CPS and connect to their Motorola radio?

Have you tried any other type 2 Hypervisors? I haven't played with any M1 based hardware yet, and originally one of the big gripes was lack of type 2 support - but some casual googling shows that at least VirtualBox might support Windows 11 on M1 hardware, no idea if USB support is there yet...

 

[human8472]

Have you tried any other type 2 Hypervisors? I haven't played with any M1 based hardware yet, and originally one of the big gripes was lack of type 2 support - but some casual googling shows that at least VirtualBox might support Windows 11 on M1 hardware, no idea if USB support is there yet...

I have not tried any other virtual machines other than Fusion and Parallels. Thanks for the info on Virtual Box. I will give them a whirl.

 

[wa8pyr]

I have not tried any other virtual machines other than Fusion and Parallels. Thanks for the info on Virtual Box. I will give them a whirl.

It’s worth a try, but I’ve had very little luck getting USB devices to work properly using Parallels and Windows 11 on my M1 Mini. Typical consumer devices generally work but even then it’s hit or miss. I finally gave up and stick with the last-generation Intel Mini on the radio desk, running Win7 in VMWare Fusion.

From what I was told by our IT people at work it’s primarily a Windows issue; they said Micro$oft apparently didn’t put any effort at all into making sure USB worked properly, and for that reason they’re staying well clear of Windows 11.

I say thank God; the Win11 UI sucks swamp water, and Micro$oft has a tradition of screwing up every other release (WinXP was ok but Vista sucked, then Win7 was ok but Win8 sucked, then Win10 was mostly ok but Win11 sucks). Add to that their propensity to completely change the UI with every release, and I’m perfectly happy to stick with Windows 7 for all my programming tasks.

 

[human8472]

It’s worth a try, but I’ve had very little luck getting USB devices to work properly using Parallels and Windows 11 on my M1 Mini. Typical consumer devices generally work but even then it’s hit or miss. I finally gave up and stick with the last-generation Intel Mini on the radio desk, running Win7 in VMWare Fusion.

From what I was told by our IT people at work it’s primarily a Windows issue; they said Micro$oft apparently didn’t put any effort at all into making sure USB worked properly, and for that reason they’re staying well clear of Windows 11.

I say thank God; the Win11 UI sucks swamp water, and Micro$oft has a tradition of screwing up every other release (WinXP was ok but Vista sucked, then Win7 was ok but Win8 sucked, then Win10 was mostly ok but Win11 sucks). Add to that their propensity to completely change the UI with every release, and I’m perfectly happy to stick with Windows 7 for all my programming tasks.

I keep around my Lenovo Tablet (Windows 10) for that very reason. I was hoping to go with just one computer (the M1) but looks like the tablet hasd to stay around (for now at least).

 

[kg6nlw]

I second the VirtualBox by Oracle idea. I don't have ana M1 system but I have had ZERO issues with anything VB related.

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[DalenVigil]

I circumnavigated the issue by buying a cheap Toughbook off eBay. Loaded up all my CPS's on it and just accepted the fact that in Apple's infinite wisdom, their customers get screwed when it comes to any sort of real interoperability.

 

[marcotor]

just accepted the fact that in Apple's infinite wisdom, their customers get screwed when it comes to any sort of real interoperability.

Why is it Apple's fault that an ARM Virtual Machine, running Windows for ARM, which then needs to run an x86-64 emulator inside to make the software work at all?

 

[marcotor]

I second the VirtualBox by Oracle idea. I don't have ana M1 system but I have had ZERO issues with anything VB related.
Regards,
-Frank C.

Well, coming from someone with several Apple Silicon Macs I can tell you that VirtualBox for M1/2 Macs is alpha software at best, and a terrific way to convince yourself it's written by monkeys banging out code. VBox for Intel is great, but the Apple Si version is barely functional and requires lots of fiddling to get it to maybe work (sometimes).

VMWare Fusion will give you a license for personal use. And it's Free. Did I mention it's the SAME Fusion they sell for $79/year? And a reminder, it's Free

 

[ElroyJetson]

How many layers of emulation do you think CPS can tolerate before the whole pile of garbage becomes unstable?

I've never even given a Mac a single though with regard to using it as a platform for programming radios using Motorola software built from the ground up to operate in the PC/Windows/X86 architecture. I won't even trust USB to RS232 adapters, whether hardware or software. And neither should you, because bricking expensive radios SUCKS and that stuff is ALWAYS less than 100 percent reliable.

Just don't do it. If you're using a mac to run CPS, as far as I'm concerned you're doing it wrong and rolling the dice on bricking a radio every single time you hit the PROGRAM button.

Ge a good PC laptop running Windows 7, don't use it for the general internet, and make sure it has a hardware RS232 port. Maybe even make it a dual boot system for Windows 10 as well, for when (eventually) Win 10 will be required for support of certain new features. (Maybe even Win 11...choke.)

Don't make this harder than it has to be. Stick to the PC/Windows platform for which the CPS was developed. It's not that difficult.

 

[ProScan]

From what I was told by our IT people at work it’s primarily a Windows issue; they said Micro$oft apparently didn’t put any effort at all into making sure USB worked properly, and for that reason they’re staying well clear of Windows 11.

If you're referring to the USB Prolific PL203 driver, that's not Microsoft's fault. The driver hasn't been updated to recognize the name of the OS version. All the other drivers I've seen could care less about the name but Prolific uses the name to match the name internally and disables it if no match.

 

[wa8pyr]

How many layers of emulation do you think CPS can tolerate before the whole pile of garbage becomes unstable?

Well, we're not running emulation, we're running virtual machines, which is a horse of a completely different color. It's a proven technology that works very well; in fact, most server farms these days use it extensively.

I rarely run more than one VM at a time, but every now and again I've run (on an Intel Macbook Pro) a Windows 7 VM and a Linux Mint VM at the same time with no issues at all.

I've never even given a Mac a single though with regard to using it as a platform for programming radios using Motorola software built from the ground up to operate in the PC/Windows/X86 architecture. I won't even trust USB to RS232 adapters, whether hardware or software. And neither should you, because bricking expensive radios SUCKS and that stuff is ALWAYS less than 100 percent reliable.

Just don't do it. If you're using a mac to run CPS, as far as I'm concerned you're doing it wrong and rolling the dice on bricking a radio every single time you hit the PROGRAM button.

I've never had a lick of trouble using a VM on a Mac to program professional radios; I only use a Windows machine for that at work because they made me. I use a Windows box for programming professional radios (Motorola, Harris, etc) at home because I had one. I use a VM on my Mac for programming scanners all the time, which is (sort of) the topic of this thread.

The only caveat I can add is that the only time I've ever had an issue was when I tried using an adapter with the Prolific chipset, which was unreliable. I use a quality USB-Serial adapter with the FTDI chipset when needed, and it works flawlessly.

 

[marcotor]

I would echo all in the post above, when it comes to virtualizing any OS on a Mac with an Intel processor. Programmed many a radio, and scanners, without a single issue. VMWare Fusion, Parallels Desktop, and VirtualBox all have excellent implementations, which have been time tested.

The caveat is that this discussion is centered around Apple Silicon Macs which are a completely different architecture than Intel. The virtualization software packages are still in their infancies, and while one can make them work, there is no support coming from anywhere for Windows, much less radio and scanner manufacturers.

Microsoft maintains it's ARM Windows software is beta, and built only for Qualcomm ARM processors (likely due to an exclusive agreement with Qualcomm going back to 2016). Add to that, there is a necessary emulation layer needed to run x86-64 code in Windows for ARM, and while it is as good as it could be (MS really stepped up with this), you're asking for issues to come up.

Yes, it can work. It just might not be today.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Other people can do whatever their wish, but I've never had any desire to run Moto software on anything but a PC...and always with a real serial port as well, except for those newer radios that are designed to be programmed via USB, and bluetooth. (Though I've never yet used bluetooth for any radio programming.)

I generally try to avoid using macs. I have a fair amount of experience with them but just don't like them. Anything I can do on a Mac, I can do 5 times faster on a PC. That's just a matter of experience, I'm sure.

 

[jthorpe]

In the past when I had an Intel based Mac I would run my CPS on Windows inside of a Virtual Machine (using VMWare Fusion).

Now that I have an M1 based Mac (no longer x86 but ARM based CPU), I have been unable to use CPS inside of a virtual machine as the USB connection would not work under Windows for ARM.

Has anyone been able to circumnavigate this problem? Has anyone using an M1 Mac been able to run CPS and connect to their Motorola radio?

Do youself a favor and buy a 150 dollar laptop from Amazon. Works great, and I don't put any radios at risk. I get the question because I'm also a mac user, but not when I'm running CPS

 

[MTS2000des]

What he said. CPS is supported under Windows and Intel based PCs. Doing anything else may work, it may also become a huge time vampire and exercise in futility. x86 laptops are a dime a dozen. Micro Center sells sub $100 x86 laptops that are more than capable of running APX, TRBO and Astro 25 CPS as well as just about anyone else's Windows programming software.

 

[wa8pyr]

Anything I can do on a Mac, I can do 5 times faster on a PC. That's just a matter of experience, I'm sure.

I'm exactly the opposite; I can whiz through tasks on a Mac, but when working with Windows I spend too much time rolling my eyes and shaking my head in disgust thanks to the foibles of Windows and occasionally recalcitrant hardware.

One of my biggest pet peeves is Windows' pathological need to tell me everything, all the time; it's like a ten-year-old with a lifetime supply of chocolate-covered coffee beans.

That's one of the reasons the only time I use a Windows box is for programming commercial radios.....

 

[ElroyJetson]

I have very few issues with Windows but as long as we're scratching that itch, there is one....if I use several different programs to open and save files, I have to always pay attention to WHERE in the director structure those files are kept. A lot of software doesn't even have the option to "always read and save files in THIS directory", which to me is just plain basic common sense. Set default directories. Simple. But uncommon, these days.

 

[Anderegg]

Microsoft to support Windows 11 on Apple M1 and M2 Macs through Parallels partnership

Microsoft has partnered with Parallels to support an Arm version of Windows on M1 and M2.

www.theverge.com

Still doesn't solve the USB not working, but at least a small step forward for ARM version non-dev-beta deployment.

Paul

 

[marcotor]

Microsoft to support Windows 11 on Apple M1 and M2 Macs through Parallels partnership

Microsoft has partnered with Parallels to support an Arm version of Windows on M1 and M2.

www.theverge.com

Still doesn't solve the USB not working, but at least a small step forward for ARM version non-dev-beta deployment.

Paul

Wonder how much the Parallels extortion ("annual subscription") plan will rise in light of this development. I don't fault a developer making money, and certainly can afford it. But at $99-129/year or so, they can keep it