Correct, in trunking mode the radio HAS to register with the system AND affiliate before it will unmute.
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Motorola XTS5000 question
- Thread starter firechaser97
- Start date
- Status
firefighter47
Member
Is there any way around that?
Sounds like all these "non-affiliated set up" videos and instructions are just setting people up for failure. Sounds like no matter what people do, if they want to hear anything it must affiliate which defeats the whole purpose.
Sounds like the only way to use these without affiliating is to set up receive only conventional scan channels that scan the voice channels and NOT utilize the trunking at all.
Yes, there is a proper way to set up a motorola radio to do what you want without any TX at all. I think someone (Elroy?) wrote a guide on how to do it.
firefighter47
Member
Interesting. Where can I find this guide?
Do you want to monitor a Trunked system with a Moto? Read This!
Here are the key facts that you need to know about monitoring a TRS with your /\/\otorola radio: Programming of Motorola Radios is done with software called CPS - see the sticky in this forum for info on how to legally obtain it - it's actually quite easy; Motorola is glad to sell it to you...
What an idiot. When programmed properly NAS works great. The key is to double, then double, then double check again to make sure nothing is missed. When properly done it’s fairly safe. Moto could have made our lives less difficult by make a receive only trunking setup, but they didn’t so we have to do a workaround to make it work. Other radio manufacturers allow for true receive only for trunked systems, but mother M chose not to.
firefighter47
Member
I'll read up on it. Thank you. I'm probably done messing with it to be honest but I'm always in favor of learning.
I would be surprised if meeting the admin is just only a talk with both parties present involved in it. Consider selves very lucky if so. If a cat has 9 lives I'd say they were all spent in that slap on hand talk.
firefighter47
Member
What's this all about?
Legality issues with trunked systems.
Most sysadmins will cause the perpetrators of this kind of shenanigans to be fired (at least) and in most cases if this is a problem will prefer criminal charges.
Given that the 'tech' did not have permission to add the radio to the system, is a huge red flag for dealing with this guy EVER AGAIN.
As was stated, this guy is lucky that he wasn't fired on the spot AND fitted with a set of shiny bracelets. The OP should be VERY careful in dealing with this guy. IF he gets fired or arrested he may very well finger the other parties to get a plea bargain.
We are serious when we tell people that NAS is very tricky with Moto radios and requires extreme precision.
Given that the 'tech' did not have permission to add the radio to the system, is a huge red flag for dealing with this guy EVER AGAIN.
As was stated, this guy is lucky that he wasn't fired on the spot AND fitted with a set of shiny bracelets. The OP should be VERY careful in dealing with this guy. IF he gets fired or arrested he may very well finger the other parties to get a plea bargain.
We are serious when we tell people that NAS is very tricky with Moto radios and requires extreme precision.
18bravo
Member
I can do it the right way for you. Whoever did it didn’t know what they were doing. I see this a lot when I’m fixing peoples radios and settling it up the correct way for NAS. Lucky you’re radio didn’t get bricked.
clbsquared
Member
You have something wrong somewhere. Even if you leave the offset alone and your radio is parked on a conventional channel, the radio will not affiliate to the system.
firefighter47
Member
I decided just to leave it alone LOL too much to talk about angry people and handcuffs and other scary words like that. I'm sure I can do it if I really tried but I didn't realize it was such a frowned upon thing to do. I'll just stick with scanners 👍
chrismol1
P25 TruCking!
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
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The problem with OPs original story is the radio was not setup for non-affiliate scan, it was setup as a regular trunked radio with an unauthorized radio ID while sitting on an actual trunked talkgroup affiliating
The deal with NAS is a scan list containing trunked talkgroups, with that scan list set to a conventional personality, and scan settings to Selected Channel and NOT Talkback. Then when you turn to the conventional channel it will monitor the trunked control channel looking for channel grants instead, as the scan list is set to trunked talkgroups. The zones setup with the conventional channel first and typically talkgroups are set way down the line, usually ch 17 and beyond so if the channel selector is moved it won't ever sit on the trunked talkgroup because than it will affiliate as normal. I believe the majority of NAS issues are people that sit on the talkgroup instead of the conventional channel and say OMG its affiliating. Yea no ****. Or the Channel ID is wrong or typically the big one is no idea how to use the programming software to begin with, with no concept of zones, personalities, scan list, trying to do NAS when its their first time ever using CPS. Or setting up the trunked system, inputting the channel ID, control channels, talkgroups
The deal with NAS is a scan list containing trunked talkgroups, with that scan list set to a conventional personality, and scan settings to Selected Channel and NOT Talkback. Then when you turn to the conventional channel it will monitor the trunked control channel looking for channel grants instead, as the scan list is set to trunked talkgroups. The zones setup with the conventional channel first and typically talkgroups are set way down the line, usually ch 17 and beyond so if the channel selector is moved it won't ever sit on the trunked talkgroup because than it will affiliate as normal. I believe the majority of NAS issues are people that sit on the talkgroup instead of the conventional channel and say OMG its affiliating. Yea no ****. Or the Channel ID is wrong or typically the big one is no idea how to use the programming software to begin with, with no concept of zones, personalities, scan list, trying to do NAS when its their first time ever using CPS. Or setting up the trunked system, inputting the channel ID, control channels, talkgroups
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chrismol1
P25 TruCking!
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
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You can totally do that while learning how the trunked programming works. Scan all the voice channels Digital CSQ. On a trunked system with not much traffic it can work "okay" scanning all the voice channels but don't always expect back to back conversations every single time. As long as the system has 16 voice freqs or less, the scan list limitation including the channel you sit on
You can mostly get back to back conversations as long as only one conversation is going at a time or the voice channel doesn't change frequency for that specific transmission, otherwise it can become a mess. You could fiddle with the rx voice hold times if a conversation tends to stay on one frequency otherwise typically set it to 0 to get everything if it changes freq quickly, other than the default of 3sec. You'll see what I mean in action. If its a P25 simulcast system be sure to change the digital modulator type in personality to CQPSK
I suppose you could do conventional astro talkgroup list and change to a specific Selectable talkgroup by the keypad. Or by using the channel selector, it'd be time consuming and bloated to setup but imagine setting up to 16 channels in a zone(as long as the system only has 16 voice freqs or less) to one Strapped talkgroup per personality, you could probably do this for each talkgroup across zones each zone channels strapped with its own personality, and changing the channel selector switch to Zone instead of channel so it'd be like selecting an individual talkgroups, renaming the first in a zone to the name of the talkgroup. Whew a whole lot of work in the meantime without NAS but an option, and of course using cps copy function to save time
You can also while setup scanning all voice freqs digital CSQ and block annoying encrypted transmissions using Selective Squelch digital rx unmute rule instead of digital CSQ with the NAC of the system on each channel in the zone, and talkgroup to all call 65535
You can't beat NAS tho because its listening to the control channel and instantaneously switches to the talkgroup and can hold that talkgroup if you desire a longer scan rx hold time. All my NAS radio personally have a 0 hold time, with nuisance delete enabled, I like it that way, works well for my case. I also have some channels setup to monitor 1 nas talkgroup (1 pers, 1 scan list) via the channel selector instead of a whole scan list to monitor individual talkgroups
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After reading all this i am more confused, lol. Whether it can, will, won't just scan and not affiliate and all. Way above my pay grade. It appears that sometimes people have questions and some folks bash them because of it. I have learned alot from these forums, how else will I or anyone else learn unless questions are asked?
Be safe
Be safe
chrismol1
P25 TruCking!
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- Mar 15, 2008
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- 1,341
Anything your're referring to Ask away. Don't be confused. In my opinion, most of bashing is to scare away those, if theres a whiff that specifically those who seem to not have the basics, who show to not understand the very real repercussions of screwing up NAS, because of obvious reasons of affiliating if you screw up the programming such as putting the trunked talkgroups first instead of conventional in the zone, if one has underlying knowledge of programming and more importantly the drive to learn and succeed properly without error, its not difficult, which was the basis for the original NAS instructions, it was not a complete guide for beginners whose touched a radio the first time the day before
It's all really confusing. I can program my scanner and that's about it.
If you're the type of person who has trouble programming a scanner, then NAS with a real radio is definitely not for you. Some folks are like that, and it is a pretty complex subject. In some ways I miss the days when all we had to do was plug a few frequencies into the scanner and that was it.
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