need help with esk/pro voice

[lavigne]

i live in edmonton alberta now edmonton police service operate on edacs ,now some of those edacs channels or talk groups are in digital but its not apco25 digital ,is this pro voice digital? can they be scanned with esk capable scanner ,please help thanks

 

[rdale]

That's ProVoice and cannot be heard now - or ever.

 

[davidbond21]

That's ProVoice and cannot be heard now - or ever.

That's only true in the case of a scanner. Depending on whether or not your intended system has ESK enabled, you have two options:

1)-No ESK--You can find a used ProVoice radio and get it programmed up as receive only for your system with the talkgroups you are interested. This will be extremely limited compared to the flexibility of a scanner, but at least you'll be able to listen to what's going on. Caveats: This is expensive, and requires access to the correct programming software, which is even way more expensive than the radio is. Worse yet, I think there are much stricter laws about having public safety systems programmed into a transmit capable radio in Canada than here in the states(I think). This might be a no go.

2)-ESK is Enabled--You're not out of luck yet, but if you proceed you will soon be out of a lot of money. In addition to purchasing a ProVoice radio, you will need two more receivers, one of them computer controllable, a computer, some free software, and a signal generator, and some other miscellaneous and not cheap parts. Follow the instructions in the Digital Voice Conversion Method and you'll be listening away. Trust me, this setup works. And it may even absolve you of the problem of having a public safety system programmed into a transmitter, as you pointedly will not.

Please don't take any of what I say to be legal advice, you must confirm that what you do will be within the scope of the law. I seem to recall a thread a while back about a guy(also in Canada) trying to get a ProVoice radio programmed up to no avail, and sold the radio(so he claimed) upon finding out it'd be illegal to program it up there anyways, so that's why I make any reference to legalities.

I'm also posting the information I did to show that it's not impossible to listen to ProVoice, it's just variably expensive. In my case the sheer volume of public safety on the one ProVoice system near me equals and/or exceeds the amount of public safety listening I can listen to otherwise with my scanner. If you're only trying to listen to one or two talkgroups, it's likely not going to be worth the expense.

 

[SCPD]

Edmonton .. has 3 types of communications.

First .. analog. This is used by EFR (Fire), EMS (Ambulance) and at present EPS (Police).

EFR and EMS use exclusively analog, which you can pick up on an Edacs scanner. You can pick up many models that will enable you to pick them up. Check the database here at RR for information.

Second and Third. There is ProVoice and Encrypted. This is what is used by EPS. This is a totally different ball of wax. The ONLY thing that you can pick up is the 5 dispatch channels. This would be Downtown, North, West, South East and South West areas.

You CANNOT pick up anything else .. as they are ProVoice or Encrypted.

You can forget anything else .. just these 5 talkgroups.

There is at present no ESK being used in Edmonton on the Edacs system as far as I know. Will this change in the future .. well it is anyone's guess.

ESK cannot be monitored as it is designed to prevent scanner listeners from monitoring.

I would suggest you check the database for information on the local Edacs system. But anything but what I have listed above, you are pretty much SOL. But look at it this way ... at least we can monitor what we can, some places like Vancouver with ESK are really SOL.

As to the posting above from "DavidBond21" ... yes he does make some valid points but really unless you want the long arm of the law to smack you on the side of the head attempting to program a radio for ProVoice is not only pretty much impossible but would be very very expensive.

Considering that I have been listening to the local public services for over 30 years, I can confirm that the dispatch channels are by far the only thing worth listening to anyways. A relatively recent scanner will give you what you need.

 

[ka3jjz]

Not quite true - the newer firmware for the Uniden 396 and 996 allows for ESK decoding, as I think the XT versions also have this. I'm pretty sure the PSR-500/600 also has this.

However, ESK with Pro-Voice or encryption is a no go. 73 Mike

 

[SCPD]

Not quite true - the newer firmware for the Uniden 396 and 996 allows for ESK decoding, as I think the XT versions also have this. I'm pretty sure the PSR-500/600 also has this.

However, ESK with Pro-Voice or encryption is a no go. 73 Mike

Yes Sorry, I should have made that clear.

But when you think about it .. it would make no sense for anyone to go from ProVoice to just analog with ESK. This would allow someone to use the above noted scanners. I am pretty sure that if we ever see ESK it would be like in Vancouver where I understand it is ProVoice with ESK. As is noted above .. this is not able to be monitored.

 

[electricsheep]

...And if you want the groups that are currently digital but not encrypted to go encrypted, this is a good forum to spur that on, as I know the services in Edmonton monitor this site to keep tabs on developments in monitoring.

Not that it really matters as they are not monitorable anyhow, but even though it is TECHNICALLY possible to do this, is it feasible or even reasonable to do so? Consider what you are taking on. You will be spending a LOT of money (if you are lucky, plan on the low end of costs being in the range of $1,500 to $2,000 if starting from nothing), a hard to find programming cable, a suitable radio with the exact options sourced on the grey market, the almost impossible to find without spending a fortune programming software (which will not be a legal version anyhow), and then just the knowledge alone on how to then do what you want to do without causing a whole raft of problems (for you and those you are monitoring) or bricking your very expensive grey market radio. That's even without considering ESK... or DES/AES encryption.

If you are successful and then make it known that you are successful, count on all the digital non encrypted groups to then go encrypted, making all of your expenditures and efforts moot...

So is it possible? Sure. Is it practical? For what you will get for your money, absolutely not. The groups that are digital and not encrypted DEFINITELY DO NOT warrant this expenditure.

Just my informed opinion. If anyone wants to, they are more than welcome to contact me privately to discuss this.

 

[jets1961]

at least you can get the 5 dispatch channels.

With a lot of PD's going digital and encoded it's nice to hear Edmonton took the high road, no general dispatch channel should ever be encrypted in any city in a free country. All the IV com's have good reason to encrypt.

Joe

Edmonton .. has 3 types of communications.

First .. analog. This is used by EFR (Fire), EMS (Ambulance) and at present EPS (Police).

EFR and EMS use exclusively analog, which you can pick up on an Edacs scanner. You can pick up many models that will enable you to pick them up. Check the database here at RR for information.

Second and Third. There is ProVoice and Encrypted. This is what is used by EPS. This is a totally different ball of wax. The ONLY thing that you can pick up is the 5 dispatch channels. This would be Downtown, North, West, South East and South West areas.

You CANNOT pick up anything else .. as they are ProVoice or Encrypted.

You can forget anything else .. just these 5 talkgroups.

There is at present no ESK being used in Edmonton on the Edacs system as far as I know. Will this change in the future .. well it is anyone's guess.

ESK cannot be monitored as it is designed to prevent scanner listeners from monitoring.

I would suggest you check the database for information on the local Edacs system. But anything but what I have listed above, you are pretty much SOL. But look at it this way ... at least we can monitor what we can, some places like Vancouver with ESK are really SOL.

As to the posting above from "DavidBond21" ... yes he does make some valid points but really unless you want the long arm of the law to smack you on the side of the head attempting to program a radio for ProVoice is not only pretty much impossible but would be very very expensive.

Considering that I have been listening to the local public services for over 30 years, I can confirm that the dispatch channels are by far the only thing worth listening to anyways. A relatively recent scanner will give you what you need.

 

[jbuchy]

Jim

And there is really nothing to complain about with monitoring the dispatch channels. There is plenty to listen to!! In fact, the only things digital are tactical, special event, tactical training, document inquiries and traffic channels. Combined with fire and ambulance, the chatter is pretty constant.

Sometimes, for kicks and giggles, I'll listen to drive-thru restaurant radios, if I am close enough. There really are a lot of stupid and rude people out there. You really gotta feel for the staff at times.

Edmonton .. has 3 types of communications.

First .. analog. This is used by EFR (Fire), EMS (Ambulance) and at present EPS (Police).

EFR and EMS use exclusively analog, which you can pick up on an Edacs scanner. You can pick up many models that will enable you to pick them up. Check the database here at RR for information.

Second and Third. There is ProVoice and Encrypted. This is what is used by EPS. This is a totally different ball of wax. The ONLY thing that you can pick up is the 5 dispatch channels. This would be Downtown, North, West, South East and South West areas.

You CANNOT pick up anything else .. as they are ProVoice or Encrypted.

You can forget anything else .. just these 5 talkgroups.

There is at present no ESK being used in Edmonton on the Edacs system as far as I know. Will this change in the future .. well it is anyone's guess.

ESK cannot be monitored as it is designed to prevent scanner listeners from monitoring.

I would suggest you check the database for information on the local Edacs system. But anything but what I have listed above, you are pretty much SOL. But look at it this way ... at least we can monitor what we can, some places like Vancouver with ESK are really SOL.

As to the posting above from "DavidBond21" ... yes he does make some valid points but really unless you want the long arm of the law to smack you on the side of the head attempting to program a radio for ProVoice is not only pretty much impossible but would be very very expensive.

Considering that I have been listening to the local public services for over 30 years, I can confirm that the dispatch channels are by far the only thing worth listening to anyways. A relatively recent scanner will give you what you need.