New antenna install

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KB0VWG

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I have purchased a newer truck and need to find out what kind of mount I can use for HF, I know the first thing I should do is drill holes but I dont want to do that at this time, maybe later when the Newness wears off.
Here is a few pics where I want to mount the antenna if possible using one of these 2 mounts that I have listed here, Will one of these 2 mounts work, I was thinking about the rail mount but not sure if that would fit under ther rail, The other mount I can mount that to the tail gate lid if needed. I know what kind of mount I can use for the hood for vhf/uhf.
Looking for some advice.
Thanks
Michael
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kb2vxa

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You don't need to drill holes or use clamping devices in which set screws need to bite through paint to make contact and can work loose, just install a trailer hitch and replace the ball with a stud mount. Then you can drill a hole in it to connect the coax braid with a terminal lug, bolt, lock washer and nut without messing up anything, just securely tape the coax to prevent water ingress. The antenna doesn't need to be mounted high up or be centered on the vehicle since it's invisible to RF at those frequencies and does not serve as a ground counterpoise. Rather it capacitance couples to ground using the Earth itself as a ground plane... but you knew that didn't you?
 

KC9AXZ

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This all depends on what you want to use for antennas. The V/UHF antenna will be quick and simple. The HF antenna will be another story.
 

Kennrth

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Consumer beware. Many car warrantees are null and void after you install a > 100W transmitting device in your vehicle. If your vehicles computer fails or electrical system fails they may fight you on warrantee repair. If something goes wrong better remove all traces of installation. Should talk to a service manager or maybe not LOL. Sorry to be a spoil sport but better to know now before you get caught with your pants down. Many vehicles have sensors and multiple computers even in the transmission that can be disturbed by power glitches and High RF poor grounding which could cause an accident. How would you like it if you accidently triggered your antilock brakes when traveling down the road at 70mph. Most none computerized old cars were never so sensitive as they are today. Blowing the main computer could be a $2000+ repair job.
Check here for different manufacturers policy on transmitting devices installed in their vehicles.
Most of the time there are no problems since the vehicle mfg's test their vehicles for EMI and RFI problems do to Amatuer radio installations. But you should follow their recommendations for power distribution,grounding and power capability of your mfg. Check Nissan Section - very explicit about installation methods.
Check Here on ARRL's WEB SITE !
Auto Manufacturer’s Policies

QRZ thread on subject
MOBILE RADIO VOIDS AUTO WARRANTY? - QRZ Forums
 
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davidgcet

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lol, speaking of vehicle interference we installed some 110W maratracs on 40-46mhz in some undercover vehicles back in the early '90's. every time they keyed on 45.05 the windshield wipers would cut on and run until you turned the wiper switch on fast and then back off! turned out the controller was near the AM/FM factory antenna. they were using STI-CO hidden antennas and the low band was diplexed into the AM/FM. we had to get mag mounts for a couple of the vehicles! talk about a tuning nightmare, try matching 6mhz of low band on a mag mount!
 

KB0VWG

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Vhf is no issue

This all depends on what you want to use for antennas. The V/UHF antenna will be quick and simple. The HF antenna will be another story.

vhf will be easy, I see the clamps online and they do conenct to the rails but i dont want to take the topper off to have an antenna mounted. Dont want to use magnet mounts ethier. i live where the humidity is high almost all the time and you know what that can create under a magnet mount.
Thanks
Mchael
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prcguy

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Contrary to another post, using the vehicle body as a counterpoise is very important for HF performance and the surrounding dirt or asphalt has little to due with anything.

The same antenna mounted on a Smart Car and Ford Expedition will probably have 10dB or more difference on lower bands like 40 and 80m. You also want to keep the antenna up and in the clear and a trailer hitch would not be a first choice location depending on the type and size of antnena. There are mounts that clamp inside stake holes which will hold up a fairly good size antenna if you can work that into your bed cover arrangement.

The mounts shown in the first post will not handle a very big antenna and that's another key point for good performance. Short HF antennas like the horrible little Yaesu ATS series do not radiate much on the lower bands and don't work that well even on 10m. You should see what's inside them, little thin wire tightly would on a little fiberglass rod, its amazing they don't burn up with 100w and a $20 hamstick blows them away in performance.

If your serious about mobile HF go big and proud on the antenna. I do HF mobile 7 days a week and progressed through just about every antenna combination imaginable (about 25yrs of testing) and finally settled on a Tarheel 100HP screwdriver mounted inside the upper bed wall of my pickup about a foot behind the cab. There are bigger and better antennas but the 100HP is my compromise on size vs performance.

Most every evening I talk coast to coast on a 40m net on the drive home from work and the net control guy usually scolds me for being the strongest station on the net. The radio is an Icom 706MKIIG with an occasional 500w SGC amplifier behind it.
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kb2vxa

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"Contrary to another post, using the vehicle body as a counterpoise is very important for HF performance and the surrounding dirt or asphalt has little to due with anything."

Not to start a squabble or anything, consider the fact that a ground counterpoise be it a radial system or vehicle body, in order to be effective must extend at least 1/4 wave around the radiator. With the possible exception of 10M please explain (to yourself) how a vehicle body makes this possible.

This is rhetorical, I'm not looking for debate but only that you give it some considerable thought.
 

KB0VWG

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While we are on this subject

I havent had a chance yet to see an easy way thru the firewall to run the power cables thru my 2005 Ford F150, Is there an easy location to run thru or do i need to run the cables thru the same hole that the rest of the wires are run thru.
Thanks in advance.
Michael
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DannB

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Worked for me

I dont Have a ford but I did just as you suggested. If you can see and get to the rubber boot that the various wire harnesses run in, use them it made it easy for me in my GMC. Just use caution not to "poke" through the existing wires. I actually had to cut a small hole on the side of the rubber boot to get my wires to go from engine compartment to inside of the car . give it a shot let us know how ya make out....Dan
 

prcguy

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Hey Warren, no squabble and I'm happy you asked for an explanation

With a vertical antenna over an ideal sheet metal ground plane of 1/4 wavelength all around in free space, the ground plane makes up the other half of the antenna with equal and opposite currents flowing between the vertical element and ground plane. If everything is perfect all the current supplied to the antenna will flow equally in both halves of the antenna and there will be no loss. In this case the ground plane doesn't radiate because of equal and opposite currents flowing within the ground plane itself between the center and outer edges.

Place the same antenna close to the earth (dirt) and reduce the size of the ground plane to something insufficient like a car body with a 40m antenna and most of the other half of the antenna is missing. The car now becomes loosely coupled (capacitive) to the earth beneath it and you now have large ground losses and much less current will flow due to the missing antenna half and very lossy earth under the car.

(Ok Warren, the dirt does come into play here, I apologize for 5% of my snappy response.)

All this ground loss is kinda like placing a resistor in line with the ground connection of your coax and limiting RF current to half the antenna causing the antenna to not radiate all the energy fed to it. Smaller car, more half of the antenna missing, more dependent on lossy earth, more ground loss, less radiated power, etc.

This is one reason not to attach an HF mobile antenna to a trailer hitch, its closer to the ground and will incur more ground loss than mounted up higher with some sheet metal beneath it. The car body, albeit small, is a much better conductor than the lossy resistive dirt or asphalt under the car.

One test you can do to see the ground resistance effects on a short loaded HF mobile antenna is check the antenna VSWR at resonance on a high spot on the vehicle with lots of sheet metal under it. Without some matching at the feedpoint the VSWR will be lousy because a short loaded HF antenna has a very low feedpoint impedance, probably well under 20ohms on 40/80m and a poor match to a 50 ohm system. Move the same antenna to the trailer hitch and the VSWR at resonance on 40/80m will get much better. Why? Because the additional ground loss from being closer to the dirt raises the feedpoint impedance and makes it appear to be a better antenna. In reality it has more loss and is less efficient.

Anyway there are a lot of things to consider in an effective HF mobile install and you can turn a decent antenna into a dummy load if you don't take everything into consideration. There are web sites that cover all this and I'm sure will explain it much better than I have here. If I find a good one I'll attach a link.
prcguy


"Contrary to another post, using the vehicle body as a counterpoise is very important for HF performance and the surrounding dirt or asphalt has little to due with anything."

Not to start a squabble or anything, consider the fact that a ground counterpoise be it a radial system or vehicle body, in order to be effective must extend at least 1/4 wave around the radiator. With the possible exception of 10M please explain (to yourself) how a vehicle body makes this possible.

This is rhetorical, I'm not looking for debate but only that you give it some considerable thought.
 
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