New communication System

[MetalCarnage]

Actually, it's 2 years not 6 months. You should check your facts before replying. Ignorance destroys your credibility

Ignorance eh, you should take your own advice buddy

 

[exkalibur]

Well, not to knock any volunteer First Responce types out there, but if I'm ever in need of medical assistance, you can bet your a$$ I don't want some volunteer working on me, I want what I pay for - *professional* EMS providers, not someone who does it for a few hours on a saturday afternoon.

As much as I completly understand the need, this would include volunteer Fire Departments. I realize that not ever area can fund full-timers. Where I used to live it was all volunteer. Response times were HORRIBLE. 15 minutes to a fully-engulphed home with children trapped inside. I don't know if that's typical for a volly department, but in my books is totally unacceptable and I won't live in an area where that type of service exists.

First Responder groups are PERFECT for events such as community events and all that kind of thing, but they do not and CAN NOT replace proper EMS training or EMS providers. Same story for SJA. They provide a useful service, but ONLY in the capacity of first-aid providing in an event type setting - they have no place trying to be the 911 ambulance.

 

[polo_762]

Well, not to knock any volunteer First Responce types out there, but if I'm ever in need of medical assistance, you can bet your a$$ I don't want some volunteer working on me, I want what I pay for - *professional* EMS providers, not someone who does it for a few hours on a saturday afternoon.

As much as I completly understand the need, this would include volunteer Fire Departments. I realize that not ever area can fund full-timers. Where I used to live it was all volunteer. Response times were HORRIBLE. 15 minutes to a fully-engulphed home with children trapped inside. I don't know if that's typical for a volly department, but in my books is totally unacceptable and I won't live in an area where that type of service exists.

First Responder groups are PERFECT for events such as community events and all that kind of thing, but they do not and CAN NOT replace proper EMS training or EMS providers. Same story for SJA. They provide a useful service, but ONLY in the capacity of first-aid providing in an event type setting - they have no place trying to be the 911 ambulance.

I have to say, this depends on the department. Where I grew up (Petawawa) the volunteer FD had a better response time/reputation in terms of saving life and property than the nearest full time department. It all comes down to training and the dynamic of the people employed by the department. Mind you, the volunteers were paid for each hour they were training, as well as on scene for a call...

 

[phyberoptics]

Well, not to knock any volunteer First Responce types out there, but if I'm ever in need of medical assistance, you can bet your a$$ I don't want some volunteer working on me, I want what I pay for - *professional* EMS providers, not someone who does it for a few hours on a saturday afternoon.

My father passed away in October due to a severe and sudden ruptured brain anneurism, and even the Firefighters that arrived long before the ambulance had an impossible time intubating. When the ambulance crew arrived, they also could not intubate, and it took a 2nd ambulance crew (specialists from what we were told) to finally get him intubated, but only as the bus was pulling into the hospital. In all, he was down for over 45 minutes without a proper airway.

The point of my note is that even experienced, highly skilled, highly practiced professionals can run into problems. If these folks aren't doing this job 40+ hours a week, I don't want any part of it.

If I fall and break my arm / leg / a$$ at some carnival, I'll wait for the MOH reps to arrive or take my a$$ to the hospital.

 

[Jay911]

I don't want some volunteer working on me, I want (...) *professional* EMS providers

I'm disappointed. I thought RadioReference attracted the kind of people who knew that "volunteer" is not the antonym of "professional". My father was a volunteer chief in rural Pickering for 10 years and only left when we moved across the country. He's been a volunteer chief here in southern Alberta for the subsequent 16 years. I'm a senior firefighter with the same department, have been for 15 years. I'm an EMT-A and have worked countless patients over the years. I try not to brag, but our department is looked up to by many across the province and beyond, including big-city departments, as a place of excellence as far as training goes - a training program developed by volunteers using the "professional" system provided by the province. For a number of years we had kids trying to sign on with us specifically because they felt that seeing our department name in their resume would give them an edge in getting on paid, full-time, big-city departments.

We did 440 calls last year in an area that includes everything from heavy suburban type content to rugged, rural backcountry up to and including the Rocky Mountains. For my efforts this past year, my reward was a cheque for just over $900 and a $50 gift card from Safeway. Do I care about the money? No.

Do I sit around once a week and get drunk and play cards? Hell no. Do I attend training once a week and spend 3 hours drilling on a topic? Yes, 48 out of 52 weeks of the year. Over the course of the year, that covers not only the NFPA 1001 internationally-accepted guidelines for being a "professional" firefighter, but goes far beyond that into medical training, fire cause determination/arson investigation, vehicle and technical rescue, and so on. Departments all over wish their training program was as comprehensive as the one I'm lucky enough to be taught with.

Our response times last year in that above-mentioned area which is a minimum of 30 km across and 30 km wide averaged 6 minutes 32 seconds, from the time the person called 911 to the time we pulled up at their scene. Paid departments in some places would love to have that kind of average response time. Most around here can't get it done in 8-10 minutes on 95% of their calls.

I may be a volunteer, but don't ever claim that just because I don't spend my entire life at the fire station, that doesn't make me 'professional'.

As a tagline on someone's posts on firehouse.com says: The fire is just as dangerous whether you are getting paid to fight it or not.

 

[MetalCarnage]

Thank you, someone else who can open there eyes and see the light that just because u do a job 40/hrs a week doesnt make u better then someone who isnt a "paramedic"/"professional"

I would like to mention something on a personal note why this thread really hits a personal chord. Two years ago i got a call for a 21 year old who had suddenly gone unconcious. My response time was 2 mins, 38 seconds. When i arrived the patient was already unconcious and no longer had a pulse. Dissapointly enough she also had no rythym left, so the AED would not fire. Later on i was informed she had suffered a pulmonary embolism and would have had no chance to survive unless she was already at the hospital, and even then there would have only been a slim chance of survival.

Now REGARDLESS of what the final outcome was, your beloved MOH, who you all praise because you dont want any ****ty MFR working on you because we dont meet your standards, didnt show up for a awe inspiring 23 minutes (this is in downtown thunder bay, where there are 2 EMS stations within 5 km's of where this occured).

So instead of the "professionals" being prompt in coming to the aid of someone dieing, they let me and my partner bag and perform CPR for 21 minutes. By the time they got there she was already blue and well beyond expired. Had she had a chance of survival, the professionals took so damn long she would have died anyways.

So all of you above can bash me and all my volunteer colleagues who put ourselves out on the line, free of pay, to help people in need. If i really wanted to, i could easily become a paramedic myself, i know i have the skill set, and i have seen some of the program and do not find it as something i can not acheive, however, just because i have chosen a different profession does not mean i cannot have the skill set of a EMS attendant.

I am a first responder because saving ppls lives is something i do out of the goodness of my heart, which is why i would take another first responder as my first line of defence anyday. People ask me all the time, why i would do something like that without being paid, its because i dont believe going out there and trying to save someones life is something that requires me to be paid for, my pay is the feeling i get inside knowing that i made a traumatic part of someones life better, that i made a difference in someones life. Many EMS attendants no longer possess that drive, because its a job, and like all jobs, they want to get in, do their hours, get there cheque and get out so they can go home. Every call to them is a "routine" call and they lose the ability to realize that people look to them to make a situation better. As i have been witness to many times, they come to calls with the attitude of "great, another one of these calls", they have lost all credibilty to me for what they are being paid to do, treating your patient like a piece of **** is not how you do things.

So once again, for all of you who dont understand that sometimes the person with the job title isnt necasarily the best person for the job, you can all rely on MOH 100%, a government organization filled with many paramedics who treat patients and calls as numbers instead of unique individual calls, who take there time to calls because its just another routine call, and who at the end of the day have given patients a feeling of mistreatment instead of a feeling of relief.

As for me, i will stick with appreciating my fellow MFR's who i know go out there every day, with no pay and without expecting anything in return, other than a thank you.

I know they respond to calls, with all their heart and soul, and with their own lives on the line in some cases, just for the feeling of happiness when they make someones life better.

I take someone with dedication/skills over someone with skills but no dedication any day.

I'm disappointed. I thought RadioReference attracted the kind of people who knew that "volunteer" is not the antonym of "professional". My father was a volunteer chief in rural Pickering for 10 years and only left when we moved across the country. He's been a volunteer chief here in southern Alberta for the subsequent 16 years. I'm a senior firefighter with the same department, have been for 15 years. I'm an EMT-A and have worked countless patients over the years. I try not to brag, but our department is looked up to by many across the province and beyond, including big-city departments, as a place of excellence as far as training goes - a training program developed by volunteers using the "professional" system provided by the province. For a number of years we had kids trying to sign on with us specifically because they felt that seeing our department name in their resume would give them an edge in getting on paid, full-time, big-city departments.

We did 440 calls last year in an area that includes everything from heavy suburban type content to rugged, rural backcountry up to and including the Rocky Mountains. For my efforts this past year, my reward was a cheque for just over $900 and a $50 gift card from Safeway. Do I care about the money? No.

Do I sit around once a week and get drunk and play cards? Hell no. Do I attend training once a week and spend 3 hours drilling on a topic? Yes, 48 out of 52 weeks of the year. Over the course of the year, that covers not only the NFPA 1001 internationally-accepted guidelines for being a "professional" firefighter, but goes far beyond that into medical training, fire cause determination/arson investigation, vehicle and technical rescue, and so on. Departments all over wish their training program was as comprehensive as the one I'm lucky enough to be taught with.

Our response times last year in that above-mentioned area which is a minimum of 30 km across and 30 km wide averaged 6 minutes 32 seconds, from the time the person called 911 to the time we pulled up at their scene. Paid departments in some places would love to have that kind of average response time. Most around here can't get it done in 8-10 minutes on 95% of their calls.

I may be a volunteer, but don't ever claim that just because I don't spend my entire life at the fire station, that doesn't make me 'professional'.

As a tagline on someone's posts on firehouse.com says: The fire is just as dangerous whether you are getting paid to fight it or not.

 

[jellotor]

Can't we all just get along?!?!

Gaaak...I think I'm choking...bplphlll....

 

[mikewazowski]

I think this thread has pretty much run it's course.

Hey, it had pretty much run it's course when it ended back in December until somebody decided to respond to a comment made over a month ago.

Lets keep the replies to what radio system the agency chose to use.

If anybody wants to keep up the arguing, move it to the Tavern.

 

[1stresponders]

Final Post

Hello there,

Wow, there has been quite a bit of discussion. Which I am not going to comment on, yes I was checking the form to see if anyone posted anything radio related.

After doing some research and coming to a decision this is what we have set ourselves up with.

6 p1225 radios, and 12 Gp300's

We are operating on a shared UHF frequency. We also have two m1225 radios, one for our security dispatch, and one for an auto dispatch.

We tried using someone else's radios in the coverage area we needed and we where pretty sucessful, (considering there will always be whole). So we deemed it unneccasary to spend the 7-8 grand to set up a repeater.

Once again thanks for the help, and sorry to start such a debate on first responders, didn't mean to.

Chow!

 

[exkalibur]

Well I'll just interject one comment and be done.

If you think for one second that Ontario's Paramedics don't have every bit of dedication and care that any volunteer has, you're very sadly mistaken.

Being a paramedic takes a certain kind of person. I worked for Rural/Metro back when they had some services in Ontario and I can tell you from first hand observation that the people on the front lines, answering the emergency calls 24x7 are some of the most dedicated and hard working individuals around. Sure, everyone has their off days but is it really fair to brand everyone on the MOH side of things as "all skill and no dedication"?

I'm really not trying to knock volunteer first responders because they DO serve a purpose. However, they do need to realize that their place is NOT in emergency response, to replace the traditional 911 ambulance. Volunteer first responders as I said previously are a very valuable asset to the community - if utilized correctly. I've been witness to many pissing matches between Toronto EMS and St. John Ambulance - it's exactly that kind of egotripping and pissing matches that gives them a bad rep.

Bottom line: Career EMS types are called Professional Paramedics for a reason. They choose to do it for a living, and by nature have more experience (and usually) more training than any volunteer could hope to have. Sure you might be well trained, but if you don't put your training to use, what's the point?

Okay, I'm done

Thank you, someone else who can open there eyes and see the light that just because u do a job 40/hrs a week doesnt make u better then someone who isnt a "paramedic"/"professional"

I would like to mention something on a personal note why this thread really hits a personal chord. Two years ago i got a call for a 21 year old who had suddenly gone unconcious. My response time was 2 mins, 38 seconds. When i arrived the patient was already unconcious and no longer had a pulse. Dissapointly enough she also had no rythym left, so the AED would not fire. Later on i was informed she had suffered a pulmonary embolism and would have had no chance to survive unless she was already at the hospital, and even then there would have only been a slim chance of survival.

Now REGARDLESS of what the final outcome was, your beloved MOH, who you all praise because you dont want any ****ty MFR working on you because we dont meet your standards, didnt show up for a awe inspiring 23 minutes (this is in downtown thunder bay, where there are 2 EMS stations within 5 km's of where this occured).

So instead of the "professionals" being prompt in coming to the aid of someone dieing, they let me and my partner bag and perform CPR for 21 minutes. By the time they got there she was already blue and well beyond expired. Had she had a chance of survival, the professionals took so damn long she would have died anyways.

So all of you above can bash me and all my volunteer colleagues who put ourselves out on the line, free of pay, to help people in need. If i really wanted to, i could easily become a paramedic myself, i know i have the skill set, and i have seen some of the program and do not find it as something i can not acheive, however, just because i have chosen a different profession does not mean i cannot have the skill set of a EMS attendant.

I am a first responder because saving ppls lives is something i do out of the goodness of my heart, which is why i would take another first responder as my first line of defence anyday. People ask me all the time, why i would do something like that without being paid, its because i dont believe going out there and trying to save someones life is something that requires me to be paid for, my pay is the feeling i get inside knowing that i made a traumatic part of someones life better, that i made a difference in someones life. Many EMS attendants no longer possess that drive, because its a job, and like all jobs, they want to get in, do their hours, get there cheque and get out so they can go home. Every call to them is a "routine" call and they lose the ability to realize that people look to them to make a situation better. As i have been witness to many times, they come to calls with the attitude of "great, another one of these calls", they have lost all credibilty to me for what they are being paid to do, treating your patient like a piece of **** is not how you do things.

So once again, for all of you who dont understand that sometimes the person with the job title isnt necasarily the best person for the job, you can all rely on MOH 100%, a government organization filled with many paramedics who treat patients and calls as numbers instead of unique individual calls, who take there time to calls because its just another routine call, and who at the end of the day have given patients a feeling of mistreatment instead of a feeling of relief.

As for me, i will stick with appreciating my fellow MFR's who i know go out there every day, with no pay and without expecting anything in return, other than a thank you.

I know they respond to calls, with all their heart and soul, and with their own lives on the line in some cases, just for the feeling of happiness when they make someones life better.

I take someone with dedication/skills over someone with skills but no dedication any day.