New Jersey Interoperability Communication System (NJICS)

[richee2000]

Due to severe issues with the ICS system, the borough of Eatontown has changed their PD and Fire communications back to the old VHF system.

NJ Police comms are a mess/// no real Interop. Eatontown now on VHF in the clear. Neighbor towns on Monmouth Co P25 UHF,Encrypted. Other towns on NJICS, encrypted. Others in the clear. So many other states have their act together, everyone on one system...seamless interop..... NJ comms are disjointed.

 

[RadioDitch]

Due to severe issues with the ICS system, the borough of Eatontown has changed their PD and Fire communications back to the old VHF system.

Curious, what issues? They seemed absolutely fine over the summer.

Oh, and of course, let the whining about the NJICS begin...it's inevitable in these forums...

 

[rr60]

Curious, what issues? They seemed absolutely fine over the summer.

Oh, and of course, let the whining about the NJICS begin...it's inevitable in these forums...

My ughhh +35 yr‘s w PS radio distilled to just a few words. “Radio is political“. Always has been. Sad but true.

 

[NParkNJ]

Curious, what issues? They seemed absolutely fine over the summer.

Oh, and of course, let the whining about the NJICS begin...it's inevitable in these forums...

I would imagine like Hoboken, probably having coverage issues.

 

[K2NEC]

Due to severe issues with the ICS system, the borough of Eatontown has changed their PD and Fire communications back to the old VHF system.

Curious, what issues? They seemed absolutely fine over the summer.

I would imagine like Hoboken, probably having coverage issues.

They are referencing Eatontown not Hoboken. What changed about Eatontown that wasn't happening over the summer is the question.

 

[RadioNerd90]

They are referencing Eatontown not Hoboken. What changed about Eatontown that wasn't happening over the summer is the question.

@NParkNJ has a valid suggestion of the possible cause. I have a hard time imagining coverage issues in Eatontown considering the location and strength of the site when I was down there last.

 

[JMR3865]

I cannot speak for any agency but I can say there was coverage issues.

 

[RadioDitch]

I cannot speak for any agency but I can say there was coverage issues.

That's kind of surprising. Hoboken's issues are understandable to a degree with the high-rises, Manhattan RF chaos, and fortress-like thick walled brownstones. Most of Eatontown should have been line of sight.

 

[JMR3865]

That's kind of surprising. Hoboken's issues are understandable to a degree with the high-rises, Manhattan RF chaos, and fortress-like thick walled brownstones. Most of Eatontown should have been line of sight.

There was not coverage on the south end of town, nor inside the firehouse.

 

[RadioDitch]

There was not coverage on the south end of town, nor inside the firehouse.

Ugh... 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

[K2NEC]

@NParkNJ has a valid suggestion of the possible cause. I have a hard time imagining coverage issues in Eatontown considering the location and strength of the site when I was down there last.

I see, either way, Eatontown and Hoboken aren't near each other and therefore shouldn't be having radio issues caused by similar problems. Right?

 

[rr60]

There was not coverage on the south end of town, nor inside the firehouse.

If I am not mistaken, most systems including NJICS are spec’d out as in street coverage. The systems are delivered and field tested, measured and recorded as meeting spec.

Time and time again users are surprised the do not have 100 percent in building coverage.

Likely nothing will change. That horse has been ridden...hard.

 

[JMR3865]

If I am not mistaken, most systems including NJICS are spec’d out as in street coverage. The systems are delivered and field tested, measured and recorded as meeting spec.

Time and time again users are surprised the do not have 100 percent in building coverage.

Likely nothing will change. That horse has been ridden...hard.

When the mobile on the fire truck can't hit the system from the firehouse, its not an in the building issue.

 

[joedisp]

Public Safety Communications within buildings have and always will be an issue.

No one system can do it all.

That's why NJ and many other states have adapted fire/building codes to address public safety communications within buildings etc.

Options that are used run the gambit; bi-directional amplifiers, passive repeaters and radiating cable systems etc. to just name a few.

We have a number of these that work within the city and yes, there are design issues and unwanted RF/TX escape, but if done correctly the options do work.

Please see Section 510 of the NJ Fire Code as it pertains (URL below) in building radio system coverage for public safety.

CHAPTER 5 FIRE SERVICE FEATURES - 2015 NEW JERSEY FIRE CODE

ICC Digital Codes is the largest provider of model codes, custom codes and standards used worldwide to construct safe, sustainable, affordable and resilient structures.

codes.iccsafe.org

The issue that I have seen is this is not enforced as it should be, in additional it's was limited to new construction.

Just my 2 cents,

 

[RadioDitch]

If I am not mistaken, most systems including NJICS are spec’d out as in street coverage. The systems are delivered and field tested, measured and recorded as meeting spec.

Others can speak as to design and spec. But as to REMU and the NJICS/PSIC...

REMU may or may not fudge licenses and swap frequencies around without amendments, but when it comes to coverage they don't mess around. They don't risk public safety ever. That's their whole job. The only way Eatontown and Hoboken ever went operation for any amount of time on the NJICS was if REMU conducted, completed, and saw acceptable results in testing. In building and out. If an issue develops, they're quick to show up to fix it. If an agency elects not to continue or accept REMU's resolution, that's on them. Again, as you noted, public safety + comms = more politics.

Public Safety Communications within buildings have and always will be an issue.

No one system can do it all.

What's interesting to me is that in other states it's the case that one system does do it all. In large cities around the country, and nightmare terrain in the boondocks throughout America. Cause let me tell ya, the Alleghenies in WV are no RF cake walk and SIRN is working there fine, including in the hollers of the New and Potomac Rivers. Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit, Seattle, Minneanapolis, Toronto all have no issues with a single system.

So why is a system that has only had one hiccup in Union County, quicky resolved early complaints from Newark, and that has not failed most state agencies on it such a problem in the areas that are being complained about?

Seems like, again, politics to me.

 

[richee2000]

Speak of In building coverage issues, when Livingston PD went to NJICS, (Full Time E), they had no radio coverage inside their own Police headquarters building.

 

[ansky]

Speak of In building coverage issues, when Livingston PD went to NJICS, (Full Time E), they had no radio coverage inside their own Police headquarters building.

How is this even possible? Does anyone from these departments do any type of field testing? How can anyone switch to a new radio system and only then realize that there is no coverage in some part of town, fire headquarters, or police headquarters? I know you can't field test every building or every square foot of town, but these are pretty obvious.

 

[Markscan]

Serves them right for going encrypted😂😂

 

[joedisp]

Others can speak as to design and spec. But as to REMU and the NJICS/PSIC...

REMU may or may not fudge licenses and swap frequencies around without amendments, but when it comes to coverage they don't mess around. They don't risk public safety ever. That's their whole job. The only way Eatontown and Hoboken ever went operation for any amount of time on the NJICS was if REMU conducted, completed, and saw acceptable results in testing. In building and out. If an issue develops, they're quick to show up to fix it. If an agency elects not to continue or accept REMU's resolution, that's on them. Again, as you noted, public safety + comms = more politics.



What's interesting to me is that in other states it's the case that one system does do it all. In large cities around the country, and nightmare terrain in the boondocks throughout America. Cause let me tell ya, the Alleghenies in WV are no RF cake walk and SIRN is working there fine, including in the hollers of the New and Potomac Rivers. Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit, Seattle, Minneanapolis, Toronto all have no issues with a single system.

So why is a system that has only had one hiccup in Union County, quicky resolved early complaints from Newark, and that has not failed most state agencies on it such a problem in the areas that are being complained about?

Seems like, again, politics to me.

Radio systems are like small children, they need a lot of attention. Your building out as system for the 98%pers.

Something always will be missed, your job then is to address that issues and make it better each time.

The state has done a great job in addressing coverage issues, but with anything in government the issues always money.

Politics drive the money. In the last months of the Christie administration the funding was in place to upgrade the system, shortly after that administration left office, that funding was put on hold.

When I say one system can’t do it all, I am referring to the use of additional equipment to supplement coverage within buildings etc.

 

[RadioDitch]

Recent UIDTG's across various sites.

4591 - RID16083
4739 - RID2019485 (Union Twp.)
4741 - RID2019844 (Union Twp.)
4769 - RID2470150 (NJSP)(Enc)
4781 - RID2470046, 2470055 (NJSP)(Enc)
4785 - RID2470027 (NJSP)(Enc)
4937 - RID1320332, 1320503 (Holmdel Twp.)
4985 - RID506134 (Middle Twp.)
4987 - RID506134 (Middle Twp.)
5155 - RID2460002, 2460003, 2460170, 2460178, 2460396, 2460298 (NJSP/USMS RFTF?)(Enc)
5157 - RID2460175, 2460181 (NJSP/USMS RFTF?)(Enc)
6103 - Passaic County Sheriffs RID's.

5117-5125, 5531 Lost RID's.