New TN Statewide 700MHz P25 System

[ButchGone]

The much speculated and talked about 700MHz statewide system appears to be taking shape. The city of Chattanooga has recieved word that it will be getting a federal grant, through TEMA, in the amount of $14-million to build "Phase 1" of this system. Catoosa, Dade and Walker counties in Georgia are expecting to get a $5.8-million grant in March to pay for towers connecting them to Hamilton County's current 800MHz system (Catoosa already built their part). "Phase 1" is planned to overlay the current 800MHz systems and will provide communications from north Georgia to Knoxville. It will be a 9600 baud P25 trunked system. According to terms of the federal grant officials have two years to get this system on the air. It will pay for towers, controllers, trunking sites, etc but counties will have to provide their own radios.
More details are in this link below. Note - frequencies for each county begin at page 66.
BG..

http://region39.org/Region_39_700_MHz_ Plan_Final_Draft_12-19-07.pdf

 

[icom1020]

two years? good luck.

 

[fireSAR]

good lock, look how long it took Ohio to get the MARCS system up, we ain't done yet.

 

[Gatorman]

What is driving this? 800 MHz isn't good enough? The USG coughs up money so it has to be spent?

This is a serious question. Why the move from 800 MHz to 700 MHz?

Thanks in advance.

 

[CAPTLPOL1]

I wish they would link a UHF system with the terrain and all. Just look at the document, they do ellude to all the towers that will be necessary to construct such a system on 700 MHz.

 

[icom1020]

The prevailing or proverbial question to interoperability is , do the police/fire or other agencies want or need to talk to each other? I listen in to 800 TRS in different metro areas and have yet to hear a request to talk to a different agency within the same system. Not that the concept of having everyone in the same configuration is unnecessary, but are they willing to use this and do they know how in an emergency?( cell phone calls being made amongst each other saying "hey, which group or mode do I need to be in?) A lot of this talk came about after FDNY and 9/11 but would political bickering and fiefdoms still hamper the effort if you only build the system?

 

[SCPD]

It's the vendors

What is driving this? 800 MHz isn't good enough? The USG coughs up money so it has to be spent?

This is a serious question. Why the move from 800 MHz to 700 MHz?

Thanks in advance.

Well first off, you must understand that it's the radio vendor that stands to make millions of dollars that is writing the request for the federal grants. And they know just what to say.
And it's the radio vendor that is flying public officials to events like the "National APCO Convention" in Vegas, or the "Enhanced 9-1-1 Seminar" at Disney World, to come see the proposed radio system on display.
After all that wining and dining, are you really suprised when you hear that your public officials think the new system is the best thing since Marconi?

 

[whitstu]

This should be good to watch unfold. I wonder how many towers they will have to build in order to facilitate this new system? Wonder how many counties will cough up the money to go to this system anyway? I agree with CAPTLPOL1 we should look at a UHF or VHF linked system, like Kentucky has. I'm gonna say it'll take 3-4 years to get this built out and operational.

 

[icom1020]

Idaho built out a UHF system in the 80's and basically all PDs and State Police/DOT were and still are on this. However, they now want to go 700mhz as well. Some counties have but it is a slow process. The threat of no Federal funding is hanging over these states if they lack interop to a sexy system.

TN had a unofficial plan or at least it had a domino effect with one neighboring system converting over in the 70's from 37.26 to UHF with a statewide 460.4 or 5 calling freq. Most of the cities were already on UHF. I think it worked, I didn't see much use in the 453 band for expansion. It is the threat of non-support for 'legacy' equipment that seems to freak system managers out.

 

[iamhere300]

Lets remember, the document above is a PLAN, and it is nothing more than a frequency
allocation. It is NOT a plan for a statewide system, not even close.

Each and EVERY state was required to put forth a plan for the 700 Mhz band, TN is actually getting it done late compared to states like Missouri. Even in Missouri, they
did the plan, but they are planning for a statewide VHF system. (well, almost statewide, but that is a whole nother ball of wax)

This plan is just for allocation of spectrum.

I can recall TEMA having such a plan before, for linking all their tower sites, as well
as many state offices etc, via microwave. Back in the early 80's.....

The migration to UHF back in the 70's was funded by LEAA grants. It was basically here,
take our money. Towers, radios, etc were all funded. It was a great upgrade to our old lowband Mocoms..... But its time to upgrade again. I don't think the state even is real sure what band they will be on for a statewide system yet.

I remember departments even back then griping about leaving low band. It was very common for a user to call THP on 37.26 and have troop answer on their channel. It worked well - but UHF made that nearly useless. People were carrying on about how terrible the new UHF systems would be, how it would kill deputies....

Then there were the people who complained about having "another" radio to deal with,
when 155.370 stations got bought for departments...

Scanner listeners were complaining too. What was this new UHF band? Why do I
have to buy new crystals...

Oh, for the days of "Thanks Lawrneceburg, KIC441"

And of course, having to deal with Berry Hill covering everyone up. Is Berry Hill still
on 37.26 from time to time?

 

[iamhere300]

Idaho built out a UHF system in the 80's and basically all PDs and State Police/DOT were and still are on this. However, they now want to go 700mhz as well. Some counties have but it is a slow process. The threat of no Federal funding is hanging over these states if they lack interop to a sexy system.
.

The FEDS could care less about what band you use for interoperability - they
just want you to have it, and to have some sort of P25 interface. (Hence the
P25 gateways being planned in PA and NY for their MA/COM systems)

They do want a plan for 700 Mhz whether or not you are going to use it.

 

[icom1020]

The intercity 155.37 didn't always work, I remember we tried to encode THP Knoxville from Sevierville when their phone lines were busy. Anyway, yes all states have to have a administrator for 700 mhz. The WSP is the lead agency for Wash state even if they have no immediate plans to migrate.

Going to UHF wasn't a gripe fest to leave low-band back then, it was more "how are we going to accommodate all the others who want on board" We had portable radios, the county didn't. There were 37.26 bases in all of the LE dispatch and at Sevier Co Ambulance turned on as they relayed traffic. The tow trucks had 37.26 as well with their own numbers. Sevierville had no NCIC machine back then, Gatlinburg had the only one in the county and therefore everything was relayed to them on 460 or low-band.

Having 3 depts with 10-20 radios on one UHF freq was convenient at times and frustrating too.

 

[iamhere300]

The intercity 155.37 didn't always work, I remember we tried to encode THP Knoxville from Sevierville when their phone lines were busy.

Yep. Like every system, it did not always work. Neither did NAWAS, low band, UHF, etc.

And then, when the decoders went out, often they were just pulled, and the radio
reverted to carrier squelch - and promptly was turned down.

Going to UHF wasn't a gripe fest to leave low-band back then, it was more "how are we going to accommodate all the others who want on board" We had portable radios, the county didn't. There were 37.26 bases in all of the LE dispatch and at Sevier Co Ambulance turned on as they relayed traffic. The tow trucks had 37.26 as well with their own numbers. Sevierville had no NCIC machine back then, Gatlinburg had the only one in the county and therefore everything was relayed to them on 460 or low-band.
Having 3 depts with 10-20 radios on one UHF freq was convenient at times and frustrating too.

Maybe it was not a gripe fest there, but in many parts of the state it was (And I
know a few folks that are STILL complaining)

It was funny listening to complaints - "i can be up in parts of Jackson and still hear
our dispatcher". My response was ... "So? Are you planning on responding 150 miles
back for a wreck?"


Of course, if a statewide system of some sort does get built out, it will be full circle, they
can be anywhere in the state and still listen to domestic calls back home....

 

[cowand]

My Information

Daily interoperability between agencies does take place onlocal P25 systems - I have taken part in that.

Looks as if a statewide 7/800 system is on the way. Meetings are alreadytaking place. Possibly 10 years and $100 million to start out. 700 will possibly be used for data.

700 freqs have been allocated for each county to use, but do not have to. It is open for them to use.

Never had a problem with NAWAS. Used it many times over a period ofyears.

Intercity seems to work good as well. Have not had many dealings withthat.

I do see the need for exploring the UHF or maybe VHF P25 trunk systems
for the state for the purpose of coverage, but all your big cities arealready on 800 systems.

Just some thoughts I had, and intelligence I’ve gatheredthat I could talk about.

 

[W4EMS]

One would think with TWRA, Parks, Forestry, TDOT and THP VHF Repeater systems that they could be melded into an operable system with VHF trunking. Guess turf battles are the biggest problem there.

 

[CAPTLPOL1]

Could be a problem if TWRA does not want to get on board or Forestry. It would take an Executive Order to get all the agencies to get on board and relinqlinsh their licenses'.

 

[cowand]

The TWRA issue I agree with. I spoke with a TWRA officer a few months back, and he stated that their portables do not get out very well in the field. He described his Astro Saber as "this thing". I know most use Nextel, but what happens when a disgruntled sportsman gets stupid in the field with no coverage of any type. These folks need a quality system that works.

The most logical thing to me would be all state agencies jump on the statewide system. I would say there would be excellent coverage when it is complete. I do know that its still being "explored" but I'd put money go with 700 data/800 voice.

If the governor would rent out the convention center instead of building an underground bunker/ballroom, maybe they would not complain about how much the life saving radio system costs; no matter what band they finally go with.

Just a thought...

 

[W4EMS]

Problem with this band and somewhat so with 400 UHF is that the terrain limits range. As such the cost of a statewide 700/800 system goes up significantly especially in east TN. Then again, its only money.

 

[iamhere300]

Looks as if a statewide 7/800 system is on the way. Meetings are alreadytaking place. Possibly 10 years and $100 million to start out. 700 will possibly be used for data.
.

Some of the 700 band HAS to be used for data. It is wise not go get the different
700 MHZ allocations confused. The main area on 700 is going through auction
right now for a public safety/commercial partnership. It probably will be mired up
for many years, as they are not getting enough in bids.

Never had a problem with NAWAS. Used it many times over a period ofyears.

I threw that in as a communications option - it of course is not radio based.
I can assure you that NAWAS goes down - more than most users know. The
old days of it being bulletproofed are gone, as most of our telco people are no
longer of the old "bell" mentality. Nother story for a nother place.

Intercity seems to work good as well. Have not had many dealings withthat.

Until it gets turned down.

I do see the need for exploring the UHF or maybe VHF P25 trunk systems
for the state for the purpose of coverage, but all your big cities arealready on 800 systems.

One thing that may happen, is like some states, the state looks at building out a VHF or UHF system statewide, with gateways in the metro areas to 700/800. Missouri is looking at doing this now. Provides the rural areas with coverage much cheaper and better than 800. It basically uses the best band for the region, with gateways in between.
Just some thoughts I had, and intelligence I’ve gatheredthat I could talk about.[/QUOTE]

 

[kf4lhp]

One would think with TWRA, Parks, Forestry, TDOT and THP VHF Repeater systems that they could be melded into an operable system with VHF trunking. Guess turf battles are the biggest problem there.

Another problem is that a lot of these systems (THP, TWRA, Parks in particular) reuse frequencies all across the state by just changing PL tones. This would limit their use in a trunked environment.

On the 800 MHz front, the Department of Correction is adding more campus-type 800 trunking systems to their facilities across the state. TEMA is also building out 800 MHz conventional systems for interoperability in addition to the NPSPAC channels.

I could see 800 being built out statewide. Expensive? Yes, in the east. But not impossible. North Carolina's doing it. Colorado's done it. The biggest factor in what it'll cost is what kind of coverage is desired. 95% portable coverage is going to cost a lot more than 90% mobile coverage.

I only hope that if some big communications network rebuild occurs, that there are some very clearly defined - and realistic - goals, and some metrics to define if the goals have been met. A statewide 700/800 system shouldn't be built out just "because everyone else is doing it."