Newington Encryption

[radiomanNJ1]

Greenwich went full time encrypted last winter. The police chief cited online feeds being used in the commission of crime(s) and privacy concerns. Privacy was a new one for me. Privacy for whom exactly? Especially when we're talking about a police department that has a bit of a checkered past. When called out on it, the police chief said it doesn't matter anyway because they're switching to a new radio system that can't be monitored so it was moot. To me it's all BS. The police just don't want to be monitored. They should just say that instead of making up excuses. I wonder why they can't just say that and why they have to dance around the real reason? It's interesting that the state police seem OK operating in the clear (the whole dirt bike/ATV sting at the I-91/95 split was in the clear on the state police channels), but the town clowns can't? Why? Even if they need to disseminate confidential info, they've had a way to easily do so the day the Nextel chirp was invented, and now they can do it via e-mail/chat on their in car computers. You go to a town meeting and to hear the police talk, it's as if they can't possibly do their jobs without computers in their cars, automated license plate readers, vehicles with less than 30 strobe lights, and a new radio system every decade. Makes you wonder how crimes were ever solved 10 or 20 years ago never mind 40 years ago. I know one can go down to their local department and request radio tapes for a small fee, but how would you ever know if they were edited or not? How could anyone ever prove it? I'm not against cops, it just feels like what was once squarely a civilian service has turned into something that operates in an increasingly secretive and aggressive fashion, and lacks accountability, transparency, and an us vs. them mentality.

Just wondering why you call the local officers town clowns? Been ticketed by them? State Police are what then supermen?
BTW if you are out of the car how do YOU see the mdt? 30-40 years ago Broadcastify did not exist. Really sound like you don't like your local police. BTW all the tapes are time stamped so that is how you would know.

 

[jdanon]

Just wondering why you call the local officers town clowns? Been ticketed by them? State Police are what then supermen?
BTW if you are out of the car how do YOU see the mdt? 30-40 years ago Broadcastify did not exist. Really sound like you don't like your local police. BTW all the tapes are time stamped so that is how you would know.

Town clowns is just a nickname for local cops. No offense meant, I have family members who are town clowns and another who is a state trooper, and I love them all equally . A lot of the state's 169 towns are too small for their own full fledged department, so in many places you basically have a state trooper that covers it, and then a handful of town clowns or constables depending on the time of day and year. There are many towns with no police presence at night, and many municipalities lean heavily on the state police as the de facto local police force. We don't have counties or unincorporated areas in Connecticut, so there's no county sheriff like you see in other parts of the country.

I don't have an issue with the police. I've never received so much as a speeding ticket nor had a bad encounter with an officer. Maybe the occasional parking ticket, but those are not issued by police here anyway. I'm too old to really have any ill will towards anyone anyway. I've only got so many go arounds left on this crazy blue marble we call earth. I just don't like the direction the police are heading as a civilian organization, and you rarely hear valid reasoning for why they need this or that, just that they need money to do it and we should just trust them. The local police department here was caught with their pants down (literally) and tried to prevent the news from getting out, so they are the last ones that should be allowed to operate under the cloak of encryption. I like listening to the police mostly because I can hear where there are accidents so if I'm going out, I know how to avoid the ensuing traffic jam.

At the end of the day, Broadcastify is not preventing or interfering with law enforcement from doing their job. Until someone can quantify it, I will not believe it no matter how many department heads say so. It still doesn't answer why a large agency like the state police seems OK doing their job in the clear while small towns with low crime need total communications privacy. Just because 0.000001% of crimes might be committed by someone using a scanner or cell phone application, does not justify switching to a secret communications system. That is very un-American. The only thing Broadcastify is guilty of is providing police departments cover for doing what they've always wanted long before Broadcastify existed.

As I posited in my original post, why can't the police just come out and tell us they want encryption because they don't want to be monitored? We all know why they can't.

 

[Ranger0034]

I agree there is NO excuse for full time encryption. Manchester PD went digital with the capability to switch to encryption on their channel 1 but full time encryption on their channel 2. .Guess what happened ?? More and more officers are using encryption on channel 1 for routine radio traffic. Their traffic officers, designated 31,32,33 seem to use full time encryption on their radios with dispatch in the clear. Why ?? who knows other than they can. Full time encryption also opens up the door for less than professional radio behavior, swearing, non police related conversations,unsavory comments about citizens they just stopped, and who's going to know ? No one except the officers themselves. They're certainly not going to tell on each other. No accountability and that's not what law enforcement needs right now. It's like putting black tape over the body cams. NO VALID excuse for full time encryption in my opinion

 

[jdanon]

I agree there is NO excuse for full time encryption. Manchester PD went digital with the capability to switch to encryption on their channel 1 but full time encryption on their channel 2. .Guess what happened ?? More and more officers are using encryption on channel 1 for routine radio traffic. Their traffic officers, designated 31,32,33 seem to use full time encryption on their radios with dispatch in the clear. Why ?? who knows other than they can. Full time encryption also opens up the door for less than professional radio behavior, swearing, non police related conversations,unsavory comments about citizens they just stopped, and who's going to know ? No one except the officers themselves. They're certainly not going to tell on each other. No accountability and that's not what law enforcement needs right now. It's like putting black tape over the body cams. NO VALID excuse for full time encryption in my opinion

One of my biggest concerns is that local police departments are now operating "above the law" because there is no way to reign them in now that they can't be monitored plus all the federal grants that make them paramilitary units. I've asked my kids who are cops (trust me I tried making them go into the family business!) if they cared if the public could listen in on their communications and they said no. One is a state trooper @Montville that said that no one at the troop cares if they can be heard by scannerland, and that net net they gain from having people listen to their radio calls and helping out. It really is amazing the difference in attitude between the state and local level, and I think that is what we need to look at.

If there's very little benefit to allowing local law enforcement to encrypt their communications, why allow them to do so?

 

[N1SQB]

Like it or not encryption is coming more and more. That is all I'm going to say on this matter so as not to rob the OP of his point!
Does encryption serve a purpose to Law Enforcement officers in some cases,or situations?

Happens every day in one form or another

Enough said!

Manny

 

[GKENY044]

I said it years back, the online feed stuff was going to be the catalyst to make more depts. go encrypted and with the advent of the smart phone app's, even more so now and that comes from every cop I know. they're not going to type back and forth on MDT's. unfortunately, many with these feeds will also broadcast the transmissions of every secondary channel, tac channel what have you and anyone can monitor them without even buying a scanner.

 

[APX7500X2]

Give me a real life actual example of this. I'm not interested in your thoughts or opinions. Just give me an actual example or incident where encryption has helped the police.

How about the truth, We have no NEED to hear what the police are doing, We have a WANT but no NEED. If the police are encrypted we have the RIGHT to get the recordings at a later date to listen to what they did, but no NEED to hear it live as it happens. If we have a genuine need to hear what they are doing they will issue us a radio with the encryption
Just the facts!

 

[GKENY044]

Encryption has its place. But from first hand experience I can also tell you, many questionable and illegal actions by a police dept.were uncovered because citizens heard these or pieced things together. And this was in the clear, full time encryption kills any transparency a dept. may have. It also allows the dept. to control what you know, i.e. what they want you to know.

How about the truth, We have no NEED to hear what the police are doing, We have a WANT but no NEED. If the police are encrypted we have the RIGHT to get the recordings at a later date to listen to what they did, but no NEED to hear it live as it happens. If we have a genuine need to hear what they are doing they will issue us a radio with the encryption
Just the facts!

 

[N1SQB]

Encryption has its place. But from first hand experience I can also tell you, many questionable and illegal actions by a police dept.were uncovered because citizens heard these or pieced things together. And this was in the clear, full time encryption kills any transparency a dept. may have. It also allows the dept. to control what you know, i.e. what they want you to know.

You make a valid and very interesting point!

Manny

 

[JoeyC]

Encryption has its place. But from first hand experience I can also tell you, many questionable and illegal actions by a police dept.were uncovered because citizens heard these or pieced things together. And this was in the clear, full time encryption kills any transparency a dept. may have. It also allows the dept. to control what you know, i.e. what they want you to know.

Nonsense. Police have long been aware of the publics ability to overhear unencrypted radio traffic. No cop discusses their illegal or questionable practices over the air. Not just because the public might overhear, but because the whole department would as well including supervisors, not to mention the fact that the exchanges are often recorded and timestamped. Anything "uncovered" because "citizens heard or pieced things together" would quickly be discredited as random opinion when all the facts are put on the table, most of which were never spoken about over the radio in the first place.

People are free to dream up whatever conspiracy theory they wish, based on what limited information they think they hear, but APX stated it correctly in post #27. Citizens have a WANT to hear. There is no NEED. Encryption is what it is in this day and age for many reasons. Take your pick. Its here to stay, its legal and it sucks for the hobbyist but as in everything in life, you must respect your priviledges. Unfortunately many have not, and here we are.

 

[GKENY044]

Don't count on it.

As I said, I speak from experience. Also, most depts. including the one I speak of have the ability of talking car to car on their main frequency and dispatch where these recordings take place cant even hear it.

Nonsense. Police have long been aware of the publics ability to overhear unencrypted radio traffic. No cop discusses their illegal or questionable practices over the air. Not just because the public might overhear, but because the whole department would as well including supervisors, not to mention the fact that the exchanges are often recorded and timestamped. Anything "uncovered" because "citizens heard or pieced things together" would quickly be discredited as random opinion when all the facts are put on the table, most of which were never spoken about over the radio in the first place.

People are free to dream up whatever conspiracy theory they wish, based on what limited information they think they hear, but APX stated it correctly in post #27. Citizens have a WANT to hear. There is no NEED. Encryption is what it is in this day and age for many reasons. Take your pick. Its here to stay, its legal and it sucks for the hobbyist but as in everything in life, you must respect your priviledges. Unfortunately many have not, and here we are.

 

[GKENY044]

I think you may even know which dept. I'm speaking about Manny. As JoeyC said, supervisors would be aware, in many cases they were involved!

You make a valid and very interesting point!

Manny

 

[scottct1]

I am the one who broadcasts the Newington Fire Police and EMS to the internet via Broadcastify and MyNewington.COM. I have been broadcasting it for a few years now.

When Chief Clark took over this summer I made him fully aware that I was the one who broadcasts the scanner feed.

The town knows that they are being rebroadcast which is why in sensitive issues they use their cell phones instead of their radios.

The Newington Radio system has a lot of problems and is need of an upgrade. Many of their portables have trouble getting out from different parts around town.

I have not heard the encryption, and it appears when they use it, it is using a different talkgroup which I do not not pickup or rebroadcast.

I do hope they keep the main broadcasts open as there have been a few times I personally used it to help the police find who they were looking for. The citizens in the town should know whats going on around them as well.

 

[ansky]

If I remember correctly, the town of Wolcott used encryption at one point, but then decided to stop after residents complained that they had the right to know what was going on with the department. I believe the argument was that the police dept. is funded by taxpayers, so as taxpayers they wanted that transparency. I remember this from a few years ago but can't seem to find the story anywhere right now.

 

[firerick100]

If I remember correctly, the town of Wolcott used encryption at one point, but then decided to stop after residents complained that they had the right to know what was going on with the department. I believe the argument was that the police dept. is funded by taxpayers, so as taxpayers they wanted that transparency. I remember this from a few years ago but can't seem to find the story anywhere right now.

You are correct and another reason was the members of the volunteer fire department (in which i was a member of at the time of the new radio system installation) listen to the police to get info from the first arriving police unit of the situation of a scene we were responding to and to get a heads up about a potential call.just about everyone on the department has a scanner and its a pretty tight knit community.

 

[MFCJR]

scottct1, It must be a new TG. I found it doing a search. I have not heard it in a few weeks but I don't monitor them all the time. The rest of Newington is in the clear.

 

[GKENY044]

And of course theres this..

I do hope they keep the main broadcasts open as there have been a few times I personally used it to help the police find who they were looking for. The citizens in the town should know whats going on around them as well.

 

[wesct]

scottct1, It must be a new TG. I found it doing a search. I have not heard it in a few weeks but I don't monitor them all the time. The rest of Newington is in the clear.

No, it is an old talk group, just not published.

Speech inversion is mostly used by the school system, and on occasion by the pd.

 

[radiomanNJ1]

Please feel free to explain the many questionable and illegal actions you personally know about because of encrypted radio.

I am sure many would like to know about them first hand.

Encryption has its place. But from first hand experience I can also tell you, many questionable and illegal actions by a police dept.were uncovered because citizens heard these or pieced things together. And this was in the clear, full time encryption kills any transparency a dept. may have. It also allows the dept. to control what you know, i.e. what they want you to know.

 

[radiomanNJ1]

Sounds like a man who wants to prove a point. That point being?

If the radio is not trunked then it would not be a different talkgroup.

What would you do if they went MotoTrbo or NXDN? Stamp your feet and jump up and down in front of city hall?

Have you ever thought that there might be a reason and it's not to do with the law abiding public but the press that shows up before the call is even sorted out. The tapes are available when they are not necessary in a criminal investigation.

What you and I and others do is listen to the public safety spectrum as a hobby it's nothing more.

I am the one who broadcasts the Newington Fire Police and EMS to the internet via Broadcastify and MyNewington.COM. I have been broadcasting it for a few years now.

When Chief Clark took over this summer I made him fully aware that I was the one who broadcasts the scanner feed.

The town knows that they are being rebroadcast which is why in sensitive issues they use their cell phones instead of their radios.

The Newington Radio system has a lot of problems and is need of an upgrade. Many of their portables have trouble getting out from different parts around town.

I have not heard the encryption, and it appears when they use it, it is using a different talkgroup which I do not not pickup or rebroadcast.

I do hope they keep the main broadcasts open as there have been a few times I personally used it to help the police find who they were looking for. The citizens in the town should know whats going on around them as well.