Newington Encryption
- Thread starter MFCJR
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Actually anyone that broadcast feeds can only broadcast dispatch channels and not any secondary channels used for survellance,swat,drug enforcement according to the rules posted on radio reference and broadcastify
Here is the rule i copied and pasted
1) If an agency has a dedicated frequency or talkgroup for SWAT operations - it is not allowed to be on the feed. If the agency's SWAT team operates on the PD regular
PJH
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Meh - another enc thread.
I'll leave this here before its locked (Which will prob happen shortly from the forum mods)...
I've used encryption at work (and both sides of the radio in many cases) and it's never been used to be "above the law".
Encryption has been around since the 70's from Motorola using DVP and DES and its varients. It was not used as widely due to the analog/digital converstion and technical limitations at the time. It sounded scratchy - and needed to be a good signal area for its not to drop all the 0's and 1's to reproduce the voice with good results.
Small town USA used it for coffee orders and when you had to speak freely on a call. This could have been medical information, weapon information or whatever you needed to say "as if you were on the phone". <-That was usually the case.
It wasn't "Bob Jones is an *** hole and make his life harder by...."
With the advent of P25 standards and the IMBE/AMBE codec, the digital conversion was already done, and DVP/DES/AES/ADP simply now just encrypted the data transmission - so the voice quality was the same. The cost of it also dropped and made if more affordable (ADP software from Motorola can be had as low as $10 per new radio - still $$ for DES/AES with hardware boards).
For the land of scanners - there is no "right" to listen to emergency services or the tow company. There is no federal law that says you can't either - unless its cell or encrypted.
Have people using scanners been able to help the police? Sure.
Have people using scanners been able to elude the police? Sure.
Have people using scanner apps been able to do both above? Sure.
You also have to remember (for those complaining about part time ENC on dispatch channels) is that most of the time, the radio is programmed to have ENC selectable. With P25 audio, there is NO audio difference. If its left on, the user may not know it. Only by looking at the radio head (which may or may not be in a good visual location in the vehicle) will they know. There are alert tones that may or may not be enabled. Again, comes down to the programming from the radio shop - who may or may not have informed the powers that be at the PD that its an option(s) to use.
With all the new style displays, the secure symbol can easily be missed with all the other icons. With the older Motorola style heads you had an indicator light that was a [i[ little[/i] more obvious.
More often than not, encryption is generally limited to channels/talkgroups that would be used to transmit personal information that can be used by the less than desirable people and take advantage of such information (DL numbers, SSN, etc).
But also keep in mind, as radio technology was changing, the internet also was - and ways we use the information:
From the 1920's to the 1990's - most everything was analog transmissions. Background information/records checks were over the radio. The public internet was still in its infancy. Personal data wasn't being stolen/used like it is now. Cell phones were far and few and expensive. We operated on pagers and used 911 from payphones to call into the dept (why pay a quarter?)
Late 90's early 2000's - MDT's came to Connecticut. This information could be obtained via the computer (if working/equipped/in range) and such information wasn't over the radio as often as it was. Cell phone prices were coming down, we used the Motorola Alphamate to send alpha messages to cops with data - and then Nextel was a godsend. We all carried them.
Mid 2000's - present - Identity theft is rampet, the internet is fairly matured and easily accessed, radio technology is flexible and quite a bit of anti law enforcement.
You are just seeing another revolution of technology and society.
Now - that's the public side.
On the responder side, I have no problem with ENC. On dispatch channels, I do. As stated above, for records channels or tactical situations, ENC is perfectly acceptable due to the nature of the information.
When someone is arriving on a scene - we want to hear what is going on - no matter if you are LE/EMS/FD. Interop is the word still of the day and we in the field find that hearing the actual person saying what is going on much better than from another dispatcher/CAD message.
I work in a system now that is annoying. CAD heavy - and every service has its own dispatcher. Things get lost in translation all the time.
Once on scene and requires tactical communications - then a common ENC key is perfectly acceptable for all the services, if needed.
And along with my 5am rambling - not all of this applies everywhere. Different areas of the country operate differently. Listen to radio feeds from NJ, and compare with Denver, LAPD, Chicago, Ohio, and Texas. Just listen to the dispatches on how they are sent out and how officers and dispatcher speak (other than accents). You'd be surprised how similar but different all at the same time.
The yelling of the NYPD dispatchers would get them fire in LA. The dispatchers in LA would be fired in a second in NY. The amount of information given and the way its given (for the same call) is typically night and day.
This little O with the slash is what you see when in the secure mode on the current displays. If using AES it will say AES. The older 9 series heads just had a little red light, and the 4/5/7 heads had a green triangle that popped up under whatever button was active - and several could have been.
I'll leave this here before its locked (Which will prob happen shortly from the forum mods)...
I've used encryption at work (and both sides of the radio in many cases) and it's never been used to be "above the law".
Encryption has been around since the 70's from Motorola using DVP and DES and its varients. It was not used as widely due to the analog/digital converstion and technical limitations at the time. It sounded scratchy - and needed to be a good signal area for its not to drop all the 0's and 1's to reproduce the voice with good results.
Small town USA used it for coffee orders and when you had to speak freely on a call. This could have been medical information, weapon information or whatever you needed to say "as if you were on the phone". <-That was usually the case.
It wasn't "Bob Jones is an *** hole and make his life harder by...."
With the advent of P25 standards and the IMBE/AMBE codec, the digital conversion was already done, and DVP/DES/AES/ADP simply now just encrypted the data transmission - so the voice quality was the same. The cost of it also dropped and made if more affordable (ADP software from Motorola can be had as low as $10 per new radio - still $$ for DES/AES with hardware boards).
For the land of scanners - there is no "right" to listen to emergency services or the tow company. There is no federal law that says you can't either - unless its cell or encrypted.
Have people using scanners been able to help the police? Sure.
Have people using scanners been able to elude the police? Sure.
Have people using scanner apps been able to do both above? Sure.
You also have to remember (for those complaining about part time ENC on dispatch channels) is that most of the time, the radio is programmed to have ENC selectable. With P25 audio, there is NO audio difference. If its left on, the user may not know it. Only by looking at the radio head (which may or may not be in a good visual location in the vehicle) will they know. There are alert tones that may or may not be enabled. Again, comes down to the programming from the radio shop - who may or may not have informed the powers that be at the PD that its an option(s) to use.
With all the new style displays, the secure symbol can easily be missed with all the other icons. With the older Motorola style heads you had an indicator light that was a [i[ little[/i] more obvious.
More often than not, encryption is generally limited to channels/talkgroups that would be used to transmit personal information that can be used by the less than desirable people and take advantage of such information (DL numbers, SSN, etc).
But also keep in mind, as radio technology was changing, the internet also was - and ways we use the information:
From the 1920's to the 1990's - most everything was analog transmissions. Background information/records checks were over the radio. The public internet was still in its infancy. Personal data wasn't being stolen/used like it is now. Cell phones were far and few and expensive. We operated on pagers and used 911 from payphones to call into the dept (why pay a quarter?)
Late 90's early 2000's - MDT's came to Connecticut. This information could be obtained via the computer (if working/equipped/in range) and such information wasn't over the radio as often as it was. Cell phone prices were coming down, we used the Motorola Alphamate to send alpha messages to cops with data - and then Nextel was a godsend. We all carried them.
Mid 2000's - present - Identity theft is rampet, the internet is fairly matured and easily accessed, radio technology is flexible and quite a bit of anti law enforcement.
You are just seeing another revolution of technology and society.
Now - that's the public side.
On the responder side, I have no problem with ENC. On dispatch channels, I do. As stated above, for records channels or tactical situations, ENC is perfectly acceptable due to the nature of the information.
When someone is arriving on a scene - we want to hear what is going on - no matter if you are LE/EMS/FD. Interop is the word still of the day and we in the field find that hearing the actual person saying what is going on much better than from another dispatcher/CAD message.
I work in a system now that is annoying. CAD heavy - and every service has its own dispatcher. Things get lost in translation all the time.
Once on scene and requires tactical communications - then a common ENC key is perfectly acceptable for all the services, if needed.
And along with my 5am rambling - not all of this applies everywhere. Different areas of the country operate differently. Listen to radio feeds from NJ, and compare with Denver, LAPD, Chicago, Ohio, and Texas. Just listen to the dispatches on how they are sent out and how officers and dispatcher speak (other than accents). You'd be surprised how similar but different all at the same time.
The yelling of the NYPD dispatchers would get them fire in LA. The dispatchers in LA would be fired in a second in NY. The amount of information given and the way its given (for the same call) is typically night and day.
This little O with the slash is what you see when in the secure mode on the current displays. If using AES it will say AES. The older 9 series heads just had a little red light, and the 4/5/7 heads had a green triangle that popped up under whatever button was active - and several could have been.
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