NJ Bergen County P25 System (New) with Encryption -

[vicmiller1]

NJ Bergen County P25 System (New) with Encryption -

I'm now revisiting the North Jersey / Bergen County scanner scene again ...
Last time was about 2 or 3 years ago ... A few quick questions / thoughts:

Q1) Now I see that Bergen county police network went APCO25 / P25 and the most preferred (All Law Enforcement) talk groups are all encrypted ... So that's it / done ... no content / no hear ... it seems like that makes a final "end" to that pursuit ... Can you confirm ? (I see the non law enforcement such as maintenence, ambulance, etc) are Digital (D) but not Encrypted (E) ... but the Police part is Encrypted ...
So that does mean that it is not usable / understandable ...Yes ? Please Confirm ...
So the encryption (E) on this (new) Bergen County P25 Network) of law enforcement talkgroups effectively ends listening / hearing the content of my county police forever , once-and-for-all ...
Yes ? Please Confirm ...
I saw some comments that more and more of the local towns / local town Police are joining up on the Bergen County P25 system and so they will also become Encrypted ... Yes ?

(There are some YouTube videos that have clips
of what the encrypted message sounds like on a P25 scanner - it sounds like bending / creaking metal flexing back and forth during the voice talk time)

Q2) Also I see that on Radio Reference (RR) there are live audio / feeds and I've checked it out ... for the same Bergen County (that I've mentioned that is now digital APCO25 / P25 with Encrypt), there are feeds labeled Bergen Police and Fire ... but I assume there is no "magic" and that those feeds have no special access to the Encrypt stuff ... Yes ? ... Especially since it's being shared on the internet here with RR feeds ... so it seems that once Encrypt is in play it's a "dead-end" for the scanner enthusiast for that content ... not so nice ...do I have this right ? Yes ? Please Confirm ...

Q3) Therefore, related to Q2 just above ... on this radioreference website "Live Audio" feeds for Bergen County NJ there are some choices already setup called : (What do they correspond to exactly):
- Bergen County Police and Fire (is that the (new) P25 system with the non-encrypted talk groups
coming through ?) - (3rd choice down the list from the top)
- Northern NJ and Westchester Trunked Police and Fire (somewhere in the middle of the choices list) -

How can one really tell what system / network the feed corresponds to ?
The Live Feed titles don't really tell what network is being received ...

-> I'm trying to find the live feed (Bergen live feeds) that corresponds to this new Bergen County P25
Network as fully as possible ...
(meaning hearing as much / all / most talkgroups as possible - the non-encrypted ones)
It's in the RR (this site) Database Section as:
Bergen County
Project 25 Phase I
Bergen County P25 Digital Trunked Radio System. Covering ALL county services.
Note: All Law Enforcement Talk-Groups are Encrypted.
and the link to it is here:
Bergen County Trunking System, Hackensack, New Jersey - Scanner Frequencies


Many Thanks for Your Help

Victor L. Miller (Electrical Engineer) - Northern NJ
E-Mail: vicmiller1@aol.com
Website: The Victor & Kim Home Page

 

[NYRHKY94]

I operate the feed with the name: "Bergen County Police & Fire". As stated in the feed description, I am broadcasting police and fire departments in the towns of Franklin Lakes, Oakland, Allendale, Mahwah & Ramsey. None of those towns are currently using Encryption. They are all analog except for Franklin Lakes which is P25 digital. Bergen County Sheriifs on the other hand, are operating on a system that does currently Encrypt all Police transmissions. I do not carry the Sherrifs on my feed as they can not be received with any scanner.

 

[vicmiller1]

NJ Bergen County P25 System with Encryption - Follow-Up

Yes, ... All OK ... Understood ...

There is another one called Northern NJ and Westchester NY Trunked Police and Fire
by host mfr301 ... He has some combined audio feed from various services ...
Some are Digital Departments and the first one listed is "Bergen County" so it sounds as if this is the
Begen P25 system ... but I guess it's
only the Non-Encrypted talkgroups / Not Law Enforcement ...Yes ?

The general activity level on these is low for such a busy area ... (that's my feeling) ...
Do you think it appears low because we are no longer listening /hearing the Law Enforcement (Encrypted) content for Bergen County ... How does it compare now to when it was before Encrypt ?

Many Thanks,
Victor L. Miller
vicmiller1@aol.com

He lists the content as:

Digital Departments (Trunked and Conventional):
Bergen County New Jersey:
Rutherford PD - Franklin Lakes PD - Edgewater PD - Carlstadt PD
Westchester County New York:
Yonkers PD 1, 2, 3 - Greenburgh PD
Morris County NJ Digital Trunked System (Police, Fire, EMS)
Bayonne NJ Digital Trunked System (Police, Fire, EMS)
Edison NJ (Fire, EMS)
Jersey City NJ (Police - Coming Soon)

Analog Trunked Departments:
Westchester County NY (Fire, EMS)
NJ State Police Troop B - (Patrols, Aviation, OEM)
West Orange NJ (Police, Fire, EMS)
Union City NJ (Police)
East Orange NJ (Police)

 

[jaymatt1978]

On the Bergen County trunked system Lodi and Leonia Police are on the system and they are i n the clear. The system itself isn't too active

 

[SCPD]

Bergen County P25

In years past formerly on low band and then UHF T-band and before they encrypted all the public safety (Police-Sheriff) Operations. Bergen county was busy depending on the time of day, area or type of incident. Since the powers to be have bought on to "Hiding" even their routine operations and thusly have "gone dark" to the scanner monitoring world. It indeed dose leave a hole of something to listen to. It is what it is, If it were only 1990 again:roll:.

Ken
Jersey_Ken

 

[APX8000]

On the Bergen County trunked system Lodi and Leonia Police are on the system and they are i n the clear. The system itself isn't too active

I also hear 49 units on Leonia's channel which would be Ridgefield PD...

 

[radiomanNJ1]

The Bergen County POLICE system is very active - oh and the Sheriff transportation units are on the trunk system (Its not a Sheriff system), which isnt much to listen too even when they were conventional; they are many towns looking to go on the system in the next year or so, but the most important talk groups are encrypted which has been offered to local agencies but either dont have $$ for upgrade in radios or dont believe its needed - so for now the feed should reflect Leonia PD, Ridgefield PD, Lodi PD/FD with a sometimes Palisdaes Park PD, Wallington FD, and as far as the clear talk groups there are a dozen towns with radios on the interops groups
oh look for more encryption on local channels ...CBS news reporter at the CT school shooting repeatedly stated during the first hour ..."the police scanners are saying....the scannner is now saying...etc we are listening to our police scanner ...police are saying that victims...
many local Police agencies in Bergen following the news took notice how the Ct channls were being rebroadcast and at least, One chief I met up with wants to know how to encrypt....

 

[vicmiller1]

NJ Bergen County P25 System with Encrypt - Follow-Up

I'm not sure what your are saying exactly ... It looks like you are distinguishing Police Units from County P25 (New, Digital) Trunked System ... Is that what you are saying ...

Maybe you are distinguishing "Town Police" vs. County Police (?) ...

Note: County Police is a Sheriff (a Sheriff is a County officer) ...
I definitely thought / understand / and still think the Bergen County Police are
indeed on the (New) P25 Digital Trunked System ... already right now and with Encryption on it ...
So setting up this P25 system in a home scanner should follow the activity (proper follow the P25 dynamic tuning commands), but when Police / Law Enforcement actually keys down / talks it will come across as Encrypted audio ... which sounds like bending , creaking sheet metal .. you can hear audio clip samples on YouTube ... there are many posts ...

Some towns (and including their Town Police) have not / did not join (although they were asked / offered it) , did not join this (New - less than 2 years old) P25 Digital Trunking System (which the County stood-up) ... I just talked to my Town (Fair Lawn, NJ) Police about all this , and they knew all about it ... and explained they were offered to join this (New) County P25 Digital Trunked System - but they did Not ... for two reasons ...

> First, The cost - each P25 radio costs $ 5000.oo and they have a lot of radios ...

> Second reason, the (Bergen) county (since they own / stood-up this P25 county digital trunked system) wanted to be the "Universal Dispatcher" for all Towns ... (Central Control, etc.) and the Town (and I understand other towns , resisted that / did not want that arrangment) ... Also make Note: When / If Towns, Town Police join the County P25 Digital Trunk system, the county will probably want / demand / require them to go Encrypt voice ... So I am hoping it will be quite a while before any more Towns (including my own), join this P25 network ...

Let me go further, and add that my Town confirmed (I already knew anyway) , they are continuing to use
their in-place (Classic) Repeater system Narrow Band FM - NBFM / (Analog) and they are very satisfied / good with it as-is now ... So they don't envision joining Bergen Co P25 Digital Trunk system for some time / years ... I also got the impression that many other Bergen towns are also not joining P25 any time soon and continue to also use their own Repeater Type systems that are in-place / as-is ...

Also Bergen County after setting up this (New - within the last 2 years) P25 Digital Trunked System was surprised / (and disappointed , I'm sure) that most / all the Bergen Towns did not "Jump On Board" to this P25 System ...

Also , let me add ... My understanding is even Town Police are actually deputized County officers in that they get their training , techniques, etc from County ... (but I guess their Administration is by the individual town) ... so they don't have to join the County radio P25 trunked system, etc.

So , again to get back to your reply ...your are saying the Police are very active ... were you meaning Town Police Depts on their own Repeater Systems or were you referring to the County P25 Digital system ?

Were you saying they are still hear-able ? If so , you must mean the Town Police Depts on their analog repeater systems ... County Police / Sheriff on P25 are Encrypted ... Yes ?

What other / current situation / recommendations are you / were you making to particularly listen to Police Depts in General - My feeling / method is to Use the RadioReference Town Frequencies (I also use Bergenscanner), and just put in the repeater frequencies in various scanner "banks" and hear what I can hear ...

Many Thanks,
Victor L. Miller
E-Mail: vicmiller1@aol.com

 

[vicmiller1]

Further Comments / Details on Voice "Ecryption" ...

You can actually hear Voice Encryption being used (on some radios) during Yesterday's Newtown incident ...
Use the RadioReference archives - (link just below) - use the 2nd link (9:43 - 10:13)
At time within that file 8:41 - 8:43 (2 seconds of audio) you can hear voice encryption ...
It sounds like bending sheet metal , or alternately "scratching" sounding ...

http://forums.radioreference.com/co...-ct-school-shooting-incident.html#post1873340

Victor L. Miller
E-Mail: vicmiller1@aol.com

 

[SCPD]

Bergen County P25 System

Keeping it simple,

• All Bergen County (Level) Law Enforcement - County Police, Sheriff and Prosecutor operations talk groups - All Encrypted! Can not be monitored.
• The local towns of Leonia PD, Ridgefield PD, Lodi PD/FD with a sometimes Palisdaes Park PD and Wallington FD, on their own talk groups are in the clear. Can be monitored.
  
• There are a dozen towns with radios on the interops talk groups which are also in the clear Can be monitored..

Only time will tell what other local towns will join the County P25 System or whether the local towns will stay on their own frequencies:roll:.

There is the chance as local towns switch to the county P25 system they too my throw the switch and have their talk groups encrypted. However it remains to be seen.

In closing, You can not monitor Bergen County Law Enforcement as explained above. Sorry to say those days are gone!

Jersey_Ken

 

[shield5535]

Hey guys while we are on the subject about Bergen Co, I have been picking up 477.2125 on the Mahwah site as a cc as of late. RR database has it listed but not as a primary or alternate cc.

 

[vicmiller1]

Follow-Up on NJ Bergen County P25 and Encryption ...

Yes, All Understood ...

I can say for certain Fair Lawn PD is not on P25 and still using their in-place Repeater System (which is analog, and can be monitored) ...

My strategy / approach would be to try to listen to the "common" watering hole shared
total county frequencies to still get a sense of major incidents / events ...
what would you recommend for Bergen County region for that ...

and also ...

Can you explain better the "Interop" system ...
Obviously it's a common / cross-departments system ... but ...
I need a quick summary on that topic ... how it's set up , etc ...
and also what is the content on it ... does it "echo" all the local department "audios" ? etc ...
(My guess it's an analog "repeater" type setup) ...

Many Thanks,
Victor L. Miller
E-Mail: vicmiller1@aol.com

 

[vicmiller1]

Interops ...

When you say Interops talk groups ... Do you mean those are Talkgroups as part of the County (New) P25 Digital Trunking system ... or are Interops groups a separate (Non-Trunked) Repeater set ?

Many Thanks,
Victor L. Miller
vicmiller1@aol.com

 

[vicmiller1]

OK ... I think this is what you mean ... NJ Bergen County P25 Digital Trunking system ...

Interops Talk Groups (107, 108)

107 06b D LE Interop 1 Law Enforcement Interop 1 Interop
108 06c D LE Interop 2 Law Enforcement Interop 2 Interop


"D" Digital , not E Encrypt ...

Yes ?

Victor L. Miller
vicmiller1@aol.com

 

[vicmiller1]

What about these (Also shown as Interop) ... (non P25 trunked)

477.28750 WIL811 RM 156.7 PL Trunk Patch Trunk System Patch FM Interop
155.55000 KZI402 RM 156.7 PL VHF Tk Patch VHF Trunk System Patch FM Interop

Where does one monitor (the best few choices) to hear county-wide (Bergen Co NJ) alerts / general alarms ?
and would the towns (that are non P25 digital trunked) be hearing those general county-wide alarms in their cars via these "Patches" ? ... is that the idea ?

Many Thanks,
Victor L. Miller
E-Mail: vicmiller1@aol.com

 

[vicmiller1]

If so, (see just above) we see / realize that those announcments would have to be non-Encrypted since the Town PD's (many, and not on the P25 digital trunk system) car radios would NOT have the Encrypt decoders in their cars (with existing non-P25 radios - now ) ... Yes ?

Many Thanks ,

Victor L. Miller
E-Mail: vicmiller1@aol.com

 

[jvdet]

wow where do we start some of this has been, in part, in many past treads...
Sheriff are not the Police in NJ but that for an old or another thread; when they were in the clear County Police you would have heard them going to major situations, then maybe Sheriff units assisting;

As to what to listen too, keep it local to your radio type, the local PD's that have the county interops use them when something bad happens - so several agencies can share information/coordination like during the Sandy storm; FD's chiefs aka Mutual Aid corrdinators have it if Fire Depts' need to ....well corrdinate between mutual aid groups... and or report large situations to the County Police - OEM office , EMS cordinators in towns, several Paramedics units have them (interops) as do Hospitals only when something big happens to you hear any activity - the county trunk system is something to know and understand its use ....
but local town by town channels are your best bet day to day

 

[SCPD]

What about these (Also shown as Interop) ... (non P25 trunked)

477.28750 WIL811 RM 156.7 PL Trunk Patch Trunk System Patch FM Interop
155.55000 KZI402 RM 156.7 PL VHF Tk Patch VHF Trunk System Patch FM Interop

These 2 frequencies are standard repeaters that the county can patch their P25 system over to. The can patch the whole system or individual talk-groups as needed. Interops another word for Mutual Aid.

Where does one monitor (the best few choices) to hear county-wide (Bergen Co NJ) alerts / general alarms ?

Best Place: Monitor SPEN 1 154.6800 (Statewide Police Emergency Network) and its in the clear.

and would the towns (that are non P25 digital trunked) be hearing those general county-wide alarms in their cars via these "Patches" ? ... is that the idea ? Yes

Many Thanks,
Victor L. Miller
E-Mail: vicmiller1@aol.com

Victor,

You are asking a lot of questions which is good. But I think its time for you to do a little homework and read about the various systems. There is a wealth of information on the Main Page - The RadioReference Wiki. I don't know how new you are to scanning but check first with Links for Newcomers and to work your way up. Work your way up? OOOps, pardon me, I checked out your call sign and web page. Your an engineer in the field with a Extra class license! But the Wiki page dose have good info. So pick and choose. Thanks

Jersey Ken

 

[vicmiller1]

OK ... I just wanted to get a quick / specific answer on the actual in-practice setups people are using for NJ Bergen specific county-wide alerts / alarms - general coverage considering the P25 net with Law Enforcement Encrypt ...

OK use SPEN and Patch feeds ... so then it seems like the radios in the patrol cars have some type of scan with "priority" type action ... so in other words if a town PD is sitting on their normal Channel 1 (lets say its UHF 478.975 something like that) and a county-wide alarm occurs and gets "patched" from the Bergen P25 system to the UHF and / or VHF patch frequencies:
477.28750 WIL811 RM 156.7 PL UHF Trunk Patch Trunk System Patch FM Interop
155.55000 KZI402 RM 156.7 PL VHF Tk Patch VHF Trunk System Patch FM Interop

This means that the Police patrol cars must also be "priority" scanning through those County Patch frequencies - (meaning mainly jumping back to the officer's set frequency and rapidly hopping just to those additional monitoring patch frequencies) or they won't hear it ...

Victor L. Miller
vicmiller1@aol.com

 

[vicmiller1]

Additional Comment on NJ Bergen County-Wide Alarms

An additional thought ... maybe the towns simulcast / rebroadcast the alarms on their town repeater frequencies as well ... is that done ? or no, the county-wide "Patch" Broadcast does the job ... and patrol car radios must priority scan for it ...

Note: if simulcast / rebroadcast on Town PD systems is done ... then the patrol car radios would Not have to scan for it ... it would be on the
channel they are currently sitting on ...

Victor L. Miller
vicmiller1@aol.com