APX Non-Affiliated Scan using an affiliated APX?

[rcmanning]

I’m currently using a department issued APX but want to add more talk groups to the codeplug. The ASK is not writeprotected so I’m able to reprogram everything except the system and talk groups. Before I start diving into learning how to program NAS, I have a couple questions:

1. Assuming I’m able to bypass the system key using NAS, would I even need to worry about my radio affiliating since the system already recognizes the radio ID? If so, please explain why.
2. Can you strap KMF keys to NAS talk groups? (Yes I have the keys)
3. Where can I find a definitive guide to programming NAS? I’ve spent 5 hours searching batlab and RR and can only find threads talking about NAS and bits and pieces of actual programming instructions.

Before people start going off… yes I’m aware that the radio could transmit if programmed incorrectly. I will be doing my due diligence to make sure that doesn’t happen. Also, yes I could ask the city to add the talk groups but I enjoy programming as well as learning about programming so I’d rather see if NAS is feasible before I have to deal with bureaucracy.

 

[MTS2000des]

Agreed. Even if it’s a legitimate subscriber, personally editing trunking systems without going through the proper channels, ends up making it a rogue radio. If the administrator wanted the talkgroups in that radio, they would put them in there. There’s a reason they aren’t there now.

It is always alarming when actual public safety users commence into illicit activities and show up on hobbyist forums seeking advice on how to do so.
Most of us could care less about scanner hobbyists using personal equipment to RX only. So long as they are passively monitoring, who cares. It's another level of concern when department authorized subscribers are screwed with by unauthorized users. Password protection, ASKs, etc are all there to prevent this type of whacking from occurring.

 

[n3obl]

I believe you can program it to receive only

The receive only option prevent transmit on certain talk groups. The radio will still transmit data to tell the system you are on the talk group and monitoring it.

It not a receive only like conventional.

 

[MTS2000des]

Before people start going off… yes I’m aware that the radio could transmit if programmed incorrectly. I will be doing my due diligence to make sure that doesn’t happen. Also, yes I could ask the city to add the talk groups but I enjoy programming as well as learning about programming so I’d rather see if NAS is feasible before I have to deal with bureaucracy.

Does the agency know you are tampering with the radio? Do you have authorization? My guess is not. Just another hacker attempting to circumvent measures put in place for a reason. Makes one wonder what other rules and procedures get in your way and you just put your middle finger up because you "enjoy it". SMH.

 

[MississippiPI]

Does the agency know you are tampering with the radio? Do you have authorization? My guess is not. Just another hacker attempting to circumvent measures put in place for a reason. Makes one wonder what other rules and procedures get in your way and you just put your middle finger up because you "enjoy it". SMH.

Durn

 

[jrothwell]

Does the agency know you are tampering with the radio? Do you have authorization? My guess is not. Just another hacker attempting to circumvent measures put in place for a reason. Makes one wonder what other rules and procedures get in your way and you just put your middle finger up because you "enjoy it". SMH.

I think you made your point...like 4 times already....

Time to take a few deep breaths, collect yourself, and then move on to the next NAS post that comes across your screen.

 

[northstarfire0693]

I think admin just needs to close this down. Guy has no clue what hes doing. You never mess with a department issued radio.

 

[ElroyJetson]

The OP seems to be studiously ignoring the central issue in play here:

ARE YOU OFFFICIALLY AUTHORIZED TO BE ALTERING THE PROGRAMMING OF YOUR RADIO IN ANY WAY? IN WRITING, NO LESS?


If the answer is NO then you need to revert the programming to EXACTLY as it was before you commenced messing with it, if you can, and then bury the entire idea and try to pretend this incident never happened.

If the answer is NO but you are UNABLE to restore the radio to its original as issued state, all I can say is, You Poor Fool, and counsel you to confess your sins to your manager and throw yourself at his feet and beg for mercy.

If the answer is YES then any remaining questions you may have should be answered by your administrators or radio shop staff and NOT BY PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM.

In any event I see no reason for this conversation to continue HERE. Seems like the wrong forum for it to me.

If you are engaged in altering your radio without authorization, BELIEVE ME, you are going to get far more involved with your departmental bureaucracy than you EVER want to!!!

 

[GTR8000]

The OP seems to be studiously ignoring the central issue in play here:

ARE YOU OFFFICIALLY AUTHORIZED TO BE ALTERING THE PROGRAMMING OF YOUR RADIO IN ANY WAY? IN WRITING, NO LESS?


If the answer is NO then you need to revert the programming to EXACTLY as it was before you commenced messing with it, if you can, and then bury the entire idea and try to pretend this incident never happened.

If the answer is NO but you are UNABLE to restore the radio to its original as issued state, all I can say is, You Poor Fool, and counsel you to confess your sins to your manager and throw yourself at his feet and beg for mercy.

If the answer is YES then any remaining questions you may have should be answered by your administrators or radio shop staff and NOT BY PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM.

In any event I see no reason for this conversation to continue HERE. Seems like the wrong forum for it to me.

If you are engaged in altering your radio without authorization, BELIEVE ME, you are going to get far more involved with your departmental bureaucracy than you EVER want to!!!

I think you need to take a step back and seriously relax. The OP hasn't posted anything since last night, and he seems to understand that he won't be able to make the changes he wants. Whether or not he understands that he shouldn't make those changes, well frankly that's his conclusion to make based on the presumption that he's a grown ass adult with half a brain in his head.

The piling on well after an OP has last replied is a bit much, as usual. I was quite clear in my first two replies to the OP that a) it wasn't a good idea and b) that it probably wasn't possible regardless. There was really no need for everyone else to jump in with multiple posts regurgitating the same thing over and over again. Especially members who aren't system admins and have absolutely no skin in the game.

Sometimes y'all just need to let things go.

 

[KevinC]

I think admin just needs to close this down. Guy has no clue what hes doing. You never mess with a department issued radio.

I agree! @GTR8000 can you handle that since you are an admin and I'm not?

 

[GTR8000]

I'm just waiting to get my Solution credit for a change.

 

[KevinC]

I'm just waiting to get my Solution credit for a change.

Spot me a Jackson and I'll hook you up.

 

[GTR8000]

Done.

 

[K2NEC]

I think you need to take a step back and seriously relax. The OP hasn't posted anything since last night, and he seems to understand that he won't be able to make the changes he wants. Whether or not he understands that he shouldn't make those changes, well frankly that's his conclusion to make based on the presumption that he's a grown ass adult with half a brain in his head.

The piling on well after an OP has last replied is a bit much, as usual. I was quite clear in my first two replies to the OP that a) it wasn't a good idea and b) that it probably wasn't possible regardless. There was really no need for everyone else to jump in with multiple posts regurgitating the same thing over and over again. Especially members who aren't system admins and have absolutely no skin in the game.

Sometimes y'all just need to let things go.

Elroy is the NAS guy though....he knows everything there is to know about NAS! He has to put in his 2 cents!

Now that the sarcasm is out of the way, seriously people need to chill. This is an online forum, a simple "ask your department's radio guy" would have sufficed.

 

[rcmanning]

I think you need to take a step back and seriously relax. The OP hasn't posted anything since last night, and he seems to understand that he won't be able to make the changes he wants. Whether or not he understands that he shouldn't make those changes, well frankly that's his conclusion to make based on the presumption that he's a grown ass adult with half a brain in his head.

The piling on well after an OP has last replied is a bit much, as usual. I was quite clear in my first two replies to the OP that a) it wasn't a good idea and b) that it probably wasn't possible regardless. There was really no need for everyone else to jump in with multiple posts regurgitating the same thing over and over again. Especially members who aren't system admins and have absolutely no skin in the game.

Sometimes y'all just need to let things go.

Thank you sir. I think it's a little funny how some people assume that posting questions regarding an "illicit" topic means they are actively committing a crime. As I said in my original post... "I enjoy programming as well as learning about programming". Luckily my skull is half full rather than half empty, so I had the sense to only READ the radio and not write to it. I plan on buying my own APX or Harris soon so I'm trying to understand the CPS and capabilities as much as possible before I make a choice.

You answered my question perfectly.

 

[K2NEC]

Thank you sir. I think it's a little funny how some people assume that posting questions regarding an "illicit" topic means they are actively committing a crime. As I said in my original post... "I enjoy programming as well as learning about programming". Luckily my skull is half full rather than half empty, so I had the sense to only READ the radio and not write to it. I plan on buying my own APX or Harris soon so I'm trying to understand the CPS and capabilities as much as possible before I make a choice.

You answered my question perfectly.

I highly recommend a Harris. Something like the P7300 or XG series are great learning radios that won't break the bank or run the risk of affiliation.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Thanks for the clarifications. As for my position, understand that it's my nature to try to get people to be the adult in the room, and avoid trouble. I may not be a system administrator but I know how they're likely to respond as the responsible individuals managing public safety critical systems. If people wish to criticize me for speaking out about this, they can do that. They can even be angry. I honestly don't care about their opinions. I DO care if it turns out that I'm working on erroneous information and very much want to correct any such bad information that I'm working with.

Yes, Harris radios have certain advantages if you want to use them as P25 scanners without affiliating. Starting with the fact that RPM/RPM2 understands the concept of talkgroups and radios being TRULY capable of operating in receive only mode without having to use some creative programming tricks to make it happen. But they can be a bit harder to get out-of-market support for them. (Not impossible, though!)

 

[Outerdog]

There was really no need for everyone else to jump in with multiple posts regurgitating the same thing over and over again.

Yes, but it was entirely predictable.

 

[ElroyJetson]

So now it's not allowed for people to throw in their 2 cent's worth? So who, exactly, died and made you the god of this forum?
As long as it's a public forum, you'll just have to live with the prospect of dealing with comments from the Great Unwashed Masses right alongside the blessed commentary from the Anointed Chosen.

Deal with it.


Do I sound a little different than usual? Maybe a bit less likely to take BS from people? It might be my testosterone supplements kicking in. Whatever.

Anyway, back on the original topic, my absolute advice is, if you are issued a radio, do nothing with it that you are not instructed to do by your supervisors. Don't even read it to see how it's programmed, even if it's not password protected or otherwise protected.

The reality is that the radio hobbyist community is very small and if you make a splash it'll reach every corner of this tiny pool pretty fast.
That can quickly result in unforeseen consequences for you and others. I would never advise talking about ANYTHING on here that you would want to keep a secret from.....really anybody.

SOMEBODY is always watching. Bet on it. Don't try to make me out to be the bad guy for daring to point that out.

 

[KevinC]

Why can't we all just get along?

 

[Outerdog]

And here I am stuck on step 1 just trying to program the system key into the radio...