Oconee Areawide Radio System

[nunyax]

Well, they've given it a name and begun approving agreements so it looks like Clarke, Morgan, Green and Oconee counties may be on the way to encryption by joining Walton.

"In addition, the commission also approved an intergovernmental agreement between the county and Athens-Clarke, Green, Morgan and Oconee counties for the creation of an Oconee Areawide Radio System. When the county has made the switch to digital for its 9-1-1, emergency and other communications, part of that included an 800 MHz master switch.

The agreement will allow those party to the agreement to use portions of the county’s new communication system and, according to county Communications Director Wendra Williams, the move will allow the county to bring in revenue for the projected $60,000 a year required in maintenance as well as allow for extended radio coverage into all of these counties."

http://www.waltontribune.com/story.lasso?ewcd=6822d40619ef0b77

 

[nunyax]

Bump...

Baldwin County has joined Walton, Greene, Morgan and Oconee counties in the Oconee Areawide Radio System.

Other possible members mentioned recently are Rockdale and Putnam counties.

 

[RobertsRadio]

Oconee Area Radio System

Bump...

Baldwin County has joined Walton, Greene, Morgan and Oconee counties in the Oconee Areawide Radio System.

Other possible members mentioned recently are Rockdale and Putnam counties.

Wait to see if Rockdale County joins the UASI - Atlanta Radio System instead of the Oconee Area System since Rockdale County is in GEMA Region #7 which is also All Hazards Area #7. The focus of many jurisdictions forming regional systems has been to create these systems within the GEMA/All Hazards Region/Area they are in, although this is not written in stone as far as I know and they can reach out to agencies outside their region/area to get others to join. My thought is a jurisdiction that is near two regional systems will not only look at which system gives them the best coverage, but will lean toward going on the system that gives them the best deal financially as related to reoccurring costs to be on the system.

 

[nunyax]

For Rockdale, I saw this from last May but haven't seen anything else since.

In June 2010 they received a $566,000 GEMA/HS grant that they used to upgrade 360 radios to P25 and purchased 70+ more (including an APX7000 for nearly $8,000, wow.)

 

[RobertsRadio]

Rockdale County and OARS vs. UASI

I had heard Rockdale was slowly but surely replacing their subscriber units with mobiles, portables and control stations that are P25 capable. By doing this it will put them in a good position to evaluate which system they want to be on initially, either OARS or UASI, but either way I think over time each of these individual regional systems will become one huge system allowing radios to roam all across our State where ever there is 800 MHz coverage. This will be a major plus for public safety because a Cobb County Sheriff's Deputy in Athens to pick up a prisoner could talk back to his dispatcher in Marietta on his handheld radio or could talk to Athens-Clarke County 9-1-1 or deputies as needed.

 

[SCPD]

All of this is fine and dandy, but with the economy being the way it is and due to recent announcements related to Long Term Evolution (LTE) public safety radio I think if I were responsible for managing VHF and or UHF Systems used by public safety agencies in a city or county I believe I would go ahead and narrowband all of the radio equipment and systems to 12.5 kHz and continue to use the Statewide Motobridge System to allow interoperability as needed then sit back and wait to see what happens with LTE. Why spend millions of dollars upgrading to 800 MHz P25 when it looks like LTE is probably going to make P25 obsolete unless someone comes up with a way to integrate P25 into LTE. Radio technology is changing so fast that it only makes sense to take the necessary action to get us through to the time when LTE becomes a reality and I see it not too far in the distant future, especially since Motorola is teaming up with Verizon (We will have to wait to see who the other radio vendors team up with on LTE, but either way this will be interesting). Because of these announcements, I also think if I were the manager of a P25 Phase 1 System I would hold off on making any plans to upgrade to Phase 2, unless of course my vendor could guarantee me that Phase 2 will be incorporated with and be 100% compatible with LTE without any type of interface or special switch.

Just my thought. I'm sure one or more will disagree with me, but that's why we live in a free society, at least for now.

 

[b7spectra]

I want to know WHO the lucky person is to get the APX radio!

 

[MTS2000des]

All of this is fine and dandy, but with the economy being the way it is and due to recent announcements related to Long Term Evolution (LTE) public safety radio I think if I were responsible for managing VHF and or UHF Systems used by public safety agencies in a city or county I believe I would go ahead and narrowband all of the radio equipment and systems to 12.5 kHz and continue to use the Statewide Motobridge System to allow interoperability as needed then sit back and wait to see what happens with LTE. Why spend millions of dollars upgrading to 800 MHz P25 when it looks like LTE is probably going to make P25 obsolete unless someone comes up with a way to integrate P25 into LTE. Radio technology is changing so fast that it only makes sense to take the necessary action to get us through to the time when LTE becomes a reality and I see it not too far in the distant future, especially since Motorola is teaming up with Verizon (We will have to wait to see who the other radio vendors team up with on LTE, but either way this will be interesting). Because of these announcements, I also think if I were the manager of a P25 Phase 1 System I would hold off on making any plans to upgrade to Phase 2, unless of course my vendor could guarantee me that Phase 2 will be incorporated with and be 100% compatible with LTE without any type of interface or special switch.

Just my thought. I'm sure one or more will disagree with me, but that's why we live in a free society, at least for now.

ha ha, a vendor guarantee a phase I migration to phase II using existing hardware for both subscriber units and infrastructure? Wish I saved some of the initial Astro 25 literature I got in late 2002. This was promised and now it's clear Motorola is about to kick the entire Astro 25 platform (at least in reference to subscriber radios such as the XTS and XTL series) into history and is going back on it's word to offer HOST/DSP or VOCON upgrades to support phase II..

What a huge waste of time, energy and money that was. Just like rebanding.

 

[SCPD]

It's all in what they tell you and what you are willing to believe

ha ha, a vendor guarantee a phase I migration to phase II using existing hardware for both subscriber units and infrastructure? Wish I saved some of the initial Astro 25 literature I got in late 2002. This was promised and now it's clear Motorola is about to kick the entire Astro 25 platform (at least in reference to subscriber radios such as the XTS and XTL series) into history and is going back on it's word to offer HOST/DSP or VOCON upgrades to support phase II..

What a huge waste of time, energy and money that was. Just like rebanding.

That's exactly why I said, "I think if I were responsible for managing VHF and or UHF Systems used by public safety agencies in a city or county I believe I would go ahead and narrowband all of the radio equipment and systems to 12.5 kHz and continue to use the Statewide Motobridge System to allow interoperability as needed then sit back and wait to see what happens with LTE." With technology, other than P25 and analog, changing so fast it is hard to know what is the best to switch to financially and operationally so it is probably best to do the minimum. No one can believe anything a vendor tells them now a days. Statements like, "Oh, you have to switch to 800 MHz P25 before January 1, 2013 to comply with the FCC's narrowband mandate" or "Instead of narrowbanding your existing VHF System you might as well go ahead and make the move to 800 MHz P25 because narrowbanding your VHF System is going to cost you just as much money as moving to 800 MHz P25." (Yeah, right!) They never get a chance to see the actual cost difference between the various systems because the vendor shoves the 800 MHz P25 Proposal right down their throat knowing there is Homeland Security Grant Funding and or SPLOST to pay for a multi-million dollar radio project. The problem at the local level is most fire chiefs, police chiefs, sheriffs, 9-1-1 Directors and EMS Directors don't know or understand the aspects of the mandates or technological differences in the various forms of radio technology so they take everything a vendor tells them as the Gospel and swallow hook, line and sinker. State and local governments need to take some of the radio vendors to court over some of the promises that have been made and not been fulfilled. If they would it would stop some of this stuff. This is another reason I also said, " I also think if I were the manager of a P25 Phase 1 System I would hold off on making any plans to upgrade to Phase 2" because vendors have made too many promises they go back on and can't keep. Any agency planning to switch from analog VHF, analog UHF or analog 800 MHz to P25 Phase 1 right now should have their heads examined. Making this move right now is just a waste of taxpayer dollars. As I also said, "sit back and wait to see what happens with LTE." I truly believe LTE is going to completely change public safety radio as we know it, so stay tuned....

 

[procopper7005]

I had heard Rockdale was slowly but surely replacing their subscriber units with mobiles, portables and control stations that are P25 capable. By doing this it will put them in a good position to evaluate which system they want to be on initially, either OARS or UASI, but either way I think over time each of these individual regional systems will become one huge system allowing radios to roam all across our State where ever there is 800 MHz coverage. This will be a major plus for public safety because a Cobb County Sheriff's Deputy in Athens to pick up a prisoner could talk back to his dispatcher in Marietta on his handheld radio or could talk to Athens-Clarke County 9-1-1 or deputies as needed.

Its called state band car/car...it works really good as long as everyone has it. In South and Central GA where most counties are still all VHF everyone has it and everyone can talk to each other. I used to use it all the time to talk to neighboring counties, troopers, DNR rangers, even the USMS had it. Such a simple concept still works very well in rural and semi rural areas.

 

[radiofan1]

I want to know WHO the lucky person is to get the APX radio!

Why lucky? It's an overpriced, underperforming, big ugly lime green brick. Junk in my opinion.

 

[radiofan1]

ha ha, a vendor guarantee a phase I migration to phase II using existing hardware for both subscriber units and infrastructure? Wish I saved some of the initial Astro 25 literature I got in late 2002. This was promised and now it's clear Motorola is about to kick the entire Astro 25 platform (at least in reference to subscriber radios such as the XTS and XTL series) into history and is going back on it's word to offer HOST/DSP or VOCON upgrades to support phase II..

What a huge waste of time, energy and money that was. Just like rebanding.

The only way to upgrade phase I hardware to Phase II hardware is with a forklift. Radios designed for FDMA don't have linear amplifiers required for TDMA. I saw this renege coming long ago. Motorola says, "SUCKERS!!!"

 

[b7spectra]

I wouldn't care if the APX was pink and purple as long as I got it!

FYI - I talked with a buddy of mine who works at Conyers Police (who are on a repeater 800 system - NOT TRS), and he says that he hasn't heard anything about it, yet.

Oh, and $2800 for a XTS2500? Talk about a BIG profit margin!

 

[SCPD]

OARS and Rockdale County

Yes, Conyers PD uses an analog 800 MHz conventional system on a daily basis instead of the Rockdale County TRS. The City of Conyers seems to do their own thing when it comes to radio systems and 9-1-1 Center operations, like many cities use to do and more are starting to do (This is not necessarily a bad thing if you work for or live in one of these cities. If you don't believe me just ask someone who works for or lives in Forest Park, Morrow, Riverdale, Roswell and the list goes on and on). I'm sure like in many areas the County is doing their own thing too and in this case Rockdale County is weighing out their options for going P25 and which system they will actually connect to or be a part of (DeKalb County, OARS or UASI-Atlanta) and since Conyers has their own 800 MHz System Rockdale probably hasn't even mentioned their plans and or considerations to Conyers. If they have it was probably at the upper management level, such as Mayor, City Manager, Police Chief, etc. and it hasn't filtered down to the boots on the ground.

So you like the APX? To me, it's way over rated, way over priced and one thing I can definitely do without. I just don't see how any government agency can justify spending over $4,000 for a radio when budgets are the way they are and employees are being required to take furlough days or being layed off, especially firefighters, police officers, sheriff's deputies and 9-1-1 communications officers. I've have a demo Kenwood TK-5410 P25 operating on the Cobb County 800 MHz System and I really like it. The purchase price of the TK-5410 on State Contract is about $1,800 and this makes me like it even better! This makes it about $1,000 less than the E. F. Johnson 5100ES and about $2,000 less than the Motorola XTS5000. Maybe more agencies need to take a hard look at the TK-5410 as potentially being their radio of choice.

 

[radiofan1]

For Rockdale, I saw this from last May but haven't seen anything else since.

In June 2010 they received a $566,000 GEMA/HS grant that they used to upgrade 360 radios to P25 and purchased 70+ more (including an APX7000 for nearly $8,000, wow.)

Someone at GEMA deserves an indictment.

 

[b7spectra]

I don't like the price of the APX, but I sure wouldn't mind having one!

Call me dumb in this portion, but why does everyone need to have an XTS5000 when you can save a bundle on a XTS2500? Also, I didn't know that Kwood made a radio that worked on M systems. Seems M wouldn't want others being able to connect especially when it can save agencies $$$!

 

[MTS2000des]

Its called state band car/car...it works really good as long as everyone has it. In South and Central GA where most counties are still all VHF everyone has it and everyone can talk to each other. I used to use it all the time to talk to neighboring counties, troopers, DNR rangers, even the USMS had it. Such a simple concept still works very well in rural and semi rural areas.

Back in the 1980's, most metro Atlanta agencies were on VHF and UHF conventional radio systems. Most outerlying cities were on VHF conventional. When synthesized, frequency programmable subscriber radios became common, "interoperability" didn't require a large, complex and expensive proprietary radio network to accomplish. Common mutual aid channels worked just fine.

Only when the post 9/11 homeland security theater agenda was pushed were the "mandates" to replace perfectly viable, cost effective radio systems with more elaborate and complex versions come to play, which now many of such systems are already orphaned and no longer usable (think Philadelphia, Washington DC, etc digital trunked radio systems). Those vendors, specifically Motorola, have accelerated the product life cycle of such systems to as low as 5 years. 5 years for a 20-100 million dollar investment? Absurd, considering many of those agencies are just now paying off those costs and beginning to see the true ROI of such systems.

Ironically it is never complex digital radio systems or networks that get relied upon during major disasters. In fact, it's the older, tried and true concepts of point to point simplex and ad hoc analog repeaters that get the job done. As amateur radio operators, we know this as second nature. The concept is now starting to spread like wildfire in some public safety, no pun intended, but wildland firefighting is where having field programmable VHF conventional radios and portable repeaters prove most effective in getting the job done. The recent fires of the past two years in the West showed that having caches of readily available VHF field programmable radios and portable repeaters became the clear choice for mutual aid radio communications, more effective than the areas' expensive proprietary digital trunked radio systems which are often overloaded, lack coverage, or require extensive programming, provisioning and authorization to access. None of these hurdles exist with FPP radios, just program on common mutual aid frequencies or portable tactical repeater you bring on site, and you have reliable scene communications. Simple cloning cables make programming dozens of radios quick and painless.

Wonder why we ever gave it up? Now that budgets are what they are, agencies contemplating the procurement of soon to be obsolete digital radio systems should really evaluate their needs and spend our taxpayer dollars carefully. Make sure you get what WE pay for.

 

[MTS2000des]

Why lucky? It's an overpriced, underperforming, big ugly lime green brick. Junk in my opinion.

The Harris Unity blows it away, and can support all RF bands including VHF, UHF and 700/800. Sure it's just as pricey but at least you get all bands.

 

[SCPD]

XTS5000 vs. XTS2500

The XTS5000 has many more advantages over the 2500 with three of the major things being it is more durable, has more zones and talkgroups than the 2500, plus the 5000 uses the same accessory connector as the MTS2000 & HT1000 which saves agencies the expense of replacing headsets or headset cables and other accessories that use the accessory connector. Our 800 MHz P25 Selection Committee found three or four weak points in the design of the 2500 that we felt would plague us with problems over time if that model radio was selected, so it was ruled out in the first round of evaluations. An "end of lifecycle" was recently announced on the XTL series, and I think the XTS series too, so look for agencies who just purchased these model radios in the last four years to start planning on creative ways to replace these in the next three to four years possibly through regular capital budget planning, SPLOST (if one will pass) and or through a Homeland Security or Urban Area Security Grant (provided the funding doesn't dry up). Either way, this might be a way for some of the agencies currently using the XTL and XTS series radios to at least take a look at products manufactured by the other vendors.

I'm sure you are right about M not wanting others to connect, but with P25 supposedly being an "open non-proprietary protocol" they must make it look like radios from other vendors will work on their systems. Of course, some people have told me manufacturers are being creative in finding ways in locking/blocking out radios made by the other vendors from working on their P25 systems or at least making the radios made by other vendors appear to be inferior by not having the exact same features and functions of a radio they produced.

Public Safety Communications is a crazy world and believe it or not one of the biggest hurdles agencies have to jump is in dealing with the City or County who owns the system and this is possibly more of a problem than a vendor trying to be restrictive. Some cities and counties are taking the stand that they will only allow P25 radios manufactured by one specific vendor on their system and the other users of the system feel they have no choice other than purchasing the brand of radio the system owner recommends. Taking this position is not only wrong, it's dead wrong because it completely defeats the things APCO and other professional organizations pushed for when it came to wanting a digital standard that was non-proprietary to allow competition in the market place, which is something we are finally seeing after about five years. I personally believe any City or County who has taken this position and refuses to change their position on this matter will seriously regret it at some point in the near future.

 

[SCPD]

Baldwin County and OARS

I finally clicked on the link provided by nunyax back on 03-02 (see below) and I couldn't believe what I just read, "narrowbanding is not optional and is very expensive." Well, I got news for Baldwin County and Milledgeville, narrowbanding is an option for any agency using VHF and or UHF Systems and it is definitely a lot less expensive than joining a P25 System, both in up front and reoccurring costs. I guess their chins will hit the floor once they "go live on the system."



Intergovernmental Agreement for Oconee Areawide Radio System (OARS)

County Manager Ralph McMullen reported as discussed in previous meetings, the Federal Communications Commission (FC) is mandating changes to all public safety radio systems to covert wideband systems to narrowband systems to promote more efficient use of frequency bands. He stated narrowbanding is not optional and is very expensive. He reported meetings have been held with public safety officials, potential vendors and other counties regarding this requirement.
He presented information on the Oconee Areawide Radio System group which consists of Greene, Morgan, Oconee and Walton Counties. He presented an Intergovernmental Agreement and First Amendment to the Intergovernmental Agreement for Baldwin County to join the OARS for an interoperable communications system which maximizes coverage and minimizes the cost of such a system. He reported there will be no costs to join the OARS until such time as Baldwin County goes live on the system. He stated the project is included in the SPLOST as a joint project with the City of Milledgeville. He also stated that being a part of the OARS would strengthen our grant application to purchase equipment.
Commissioner Linda Fussell made a motion to approve the Intergovernmental Agreement and First Amendment to the Intergovernmental Agreement for Baldwin County to join the Oconee Areawide Radio System group. The motion was seconded, and it passed unanimously.
Consolidation