Odd man (battery) out

[Ed6698]

lawman,

When I do a discharge on my batteries to measure capacity, I always use the lowest setting. Best thing to do is start out with new batteries. I played around with some questionable batteries that were abused in a cheap charger. Once they are abused like that, the Maha will usually start kicking them out with that "HIGH" after a short time. All my new batteries are good, been using all the sets for about 4 months now, have had no problems with them. I did a discharge right out of the package with them at the lowest setting, then let them rest and run the break in. Been using them ever since, I don't worry about the numbers now, unless I see a odd ball number on the screen and I have not had any on these 4 sets. I am so glad I bought a 2nd Maha, mine are used every day just about.

 

[lawman210]

I think I'm going to buy another charger tonight. Would you say to go with another c-9000. The Bt-c2000 looks sweet as well and comes with a c and d adapter to charge 2 of them each. I also like how it gives totals on each cell at one time and not cycling through. 46.00 versus 55.00 but you don't get any power max batteries

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[Ed6698]

I think I'm going to buy another charger tonight. Would you say to go with another c-9000. The Bt-c2000 looks sweet as well and comes with a c and d adapter to charge 2 of them each. I also like how it gives totals on each cell at one time and not cycling through. 46.00 versus 55.00 but you don't get any power max batteries

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I thought about getting a different one, I just decided to keep it simple and got the same thing. Makes things a little easier to work with.

 

[lawman210]

My thoughts too. Tempted to get a few other models of Maha but that's a lot of money to put out

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[lawman210]

Ok been reading some reviews of the powerex, eneloops. I realize eneloops 2400 mah have the best LSD low self discharge but the powerex has 35% more power at 2700mah. Since my scanners will probably require my batteries to be recharged at least every other day I don't think the low self discharge would be an advantage. Maybe in a flashlight sitting with limited use but then again I choose to use alkaline batteries for that. So I would think the higher mah would be better suited and would give longer run times. I haven't really gotten into internal resistance yet but does that have anything to do with this situation? Lastly is a scanner considered a high drain item? I ask as I am sure that also plays a role into battery selection as well yes?

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[Ed6698]

I am sure the PowerEx batteries are good and will work great. I would just get a couple sets and try them out. If they work out for you, I may try some out when I ever need to get more batteries.

 

[lawman210]

I'm ordering the opus bt-c2000 for 38.00 on Amazon along with (3) 4 packs of powerex 2700 batteries (since my charger came with 4 already) for 11.28 a pack as well as 1 pack of the Imedions for 11.96 a pack. Weird thing is this seller has the same 4 pack listed twice with one being 12+ dollars and the other at 11.78. His 8 pack cost 24.+ dollars. I'm saving .15 cents a battery by ordering smaller packs and getting the battery holders to boot. After reading about the Opus it has some decent options that allow easier charging and a quick analysis button to quickly check your battery's capacity. It won't charge flat lined battery's that has less then 5% but that's where the Maha comes in. Will use each others strong points as well as weaknesses to my advantage

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[lawman210]

Oh and the opus has the 2 adapters to charge 2 c and 2 d batteries. Obviously not a power house for that work but will work when needing to refresh my c/d's and if need be can use my standard chargers to do the charging of more then 2 of them or if I need my opus for Aa/AAA work.
Hey while I'm thinking about it. I have seen these c/d battery adapters that allow you to use AA'S in place of the C/D battery do they work? I always thought that C/Ds would used when the item being powered was of need of more juice not necessarily the volts. But I recently became a grand pop and all the baby powered stuff seems to take C/D batteries so I have been thinking about getting these adapters.

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[Ghstwolf62]

Quick question. I've read that these batteries are supposed to be 1.5 volt yet the Powerex and others say they're only 1.2 volt.

Are the 1.2 volt okay and will they work well/right in the 436?

Or does it not really matter?

 

[lawman210]

I would imagine 1.5 will work just fine if not I think there would have been some warning not to use standard alkaline batteries. The powerx batteries I have are 1.2 and measure 1.4 with a bolt Meter. I haven't measured them with a current draw as of yet

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[nanZor]

...The 2 batteries that read "high" were showing 1.2 volts on my meter. I'm going to run them through a discharge and see what the unit measures.

In this case "high" has nothing to do with voltage, but with the internal resistance / impedance. This resistance value is only shown once after you insert a battery, and what *appears* to be the very first initial voltage, is actually the impedance measurement. When the display cycles around the next time, it will always show the battery voltage.

So for checking impedance of the cells, I put only one in, note the impedance value, and only then do I put another one in, note it's value, and so on. If you put multiple cells in all at once, you may not be able to ascertain that individual cells impedance value since it is only shown once and takes awhile for the display to cycle through.

Quick impedance recap:
1.6 = healthy cell with very low resistance
1.8 = middle aged - getting up there but still usable
2.0 = aged / abused cell - no point in using it

The cells with high internal resistance, are the ones that are more resistor than battery, and have the highest chance of burning up in the scanner's own low-current charger if left on long enough. There may be some sort of detection of this in the newer Uniden's, but I can't say for sure.

UPman is right - I have no problem charging cells in my scanner if need be, but then again, they have been vetted by the Maha as being ok to use since they have low internal resistance, are the same make, model and age as the others, etc.

So best discharge is 10% of rated capacity?

That's what the manufacturer's use to rate their batteries, so one wants to get close to that to see if the ones you have are close to meeting spec. Note that capacity specs are typically over-rated by manufacturers all the time. Quality manufacturers get quite close. Example - New eneloops will measure out at about 1990 to 2100 mah. Right on target. Specials from the drugstore that are 10 year old new-old stock - not so much and have high impedance to boot.

 

[nanZor]

Ok been reading some reviews of the powerex, eneloops. I realize eneloops 2400 mah have the best LSD low self discharge but the powerex has 35% more power at 2700mah. Since my scanners will probably require my batteries to be recharged at least every other day I don't think the low self discharge would be an advantage.

YES! LSD's are great, but if you are going to be using the batteries daily, or at least within a week's period of time, then standard non-lsd nimh batteries make perfect sense in a low-current device like a scanner.

I run the Powerex 2700's too for normal daily use. Here again the Maha scores big time - one package was actually close to 2700mah, and another was really closer to 2500mah even though the stated capacity was 2700. The Maha prevented me from making a pack out of mismatched capacity cells! Panasonic regular 2700mah have met their spec, but Tenergy 2900's were anything but! Instead of relying solely on forum fans, I let the Maha tell the story when I bought and tested those.

A single break-in is really optional for lsd's, but a definite must for standard nimh, so be sure to do a break-in on those after purchase.

Before you do a capacity measurement with new cells, you run them a few times, or at least do a break-in or two and then take the measurement.

Note too that when the 9000 says "done", it is not absolutely truly done. Good enough, but if you want to do real capacity measurements, you leave the cells in the charger for at least two hours more.

Reason for this is that once "done" appears, the Maha applies 60mah of current every hour (for two hours max) for topping off, thereafter it is one of the only true trickle chargers that applies a dinky 10mah of current every hour.

This two-hour topoff is not usually mentioned in the manual, but is part of the process as verified by Maha if you truly want the most accurate capacity measurement.

LSD vs "standard" impedance nimh: yep, the LSD's have much lower internal impedance, which has enough power to fire off high-drain devices like camera flashes etc much longer than standard nimh with their slightly higher impedance. However, since we are only powering a low-current scanner, that feature of LSD goes to waste.

 

[lawman210]

YES! LSD's are great, but if you are going to be using the batteries daily, or at least within a week's period of time, then standard non-lsd nimh batteries make perfect sense in a low-current device like a scanner.

I run the Powerex 2700's too for normal daily use. Here again the Maha scores big time - one package was actually close to 2700mah, and another was really closer to 2500mah even though the stated capacity was 2700. The Maha prevented me from making a pack out of mismatched capacity cells! Panasonic regular 2700mah have met their spec, but Tenergy 2900's were anything but! Instead of relying solely on forum fans, I let the Maha tell the story when I bought and tested those.

A single break-in is really optional for lsd's, but a definite must for standard nimh, so be sure to do a break-in on those after purchase.

Before you do a capacity measurement with new cells, you run them a few times, or at least do a break-in or two and then take the measurement.

Note too that when the 9000 says "done", it is not absolutely truly done. Good enough, but if you want to do real capacity measurements, you leave the cells in the charger for at least two hours more.

Reason for this is that once "done" appears, the Maha applies 60mah of current every hour (for two hours max) for topping off, thereafter it is one of the only true trickle chargers that applies a dinky 10mah of current every hour.

This two-hour topoff is not usually mentioned in the manual, but is part of the process as verified by Maha if you truly want the most accurate capacity measurement.

LSD vs "standard" impedance nimh: yep, the LSD's have much lower internal impedance, which has enough power to fire off high-drain devices like camera flashes etc much longer than standard nimh with their slightly higher impedance. However, since we are only powering a low-current scanner, that feature of LSD goes to waste.

Now that you mention it I have a camera and a light ring that I use for taking pictures to use on the auction site. Seems I would get low battery warnings on the ring light when using fresh or fairly fresh batteries. Not energizer or duracell. Off brands bought at Walmart or home depot. Is the problem with this being they don't have the impedance necessarily to fire the high drain light?

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[lawman210]

YES! LSD's are great, but if you are going to be using the batteries daily, or at least within a week's period of time, then standard non-lsd nimh batteries make perfect sense in a low-current device like a scanner.

I run the Powerex 2700's too for normal daily use. Here again the Maha scores big time - one package was actually close to 2700mah, and another was really closer to 2500mah even though the stated capacity was 2700. The Maha prevented me from making a pack out of mismatched capacity cells! Panasonic regular 2700mah have met their spec, but Tenergy 2900's were anything but! Instead of relying solely on forum fans, I let the Maha tell the story when I bought and tested those.

A single break-in is really optional for lsd's, but a definite must for standard nimh, so be sure to do a break-in on those after purchase.

Before you do a capacity measurement with new cells, you run them a few times, or at least do a break-in or two and then take the measurement.

Note too that when the 9000 says "done", it is not absolutely truly done. Good enough, but if you want to do real capacity measurements, you leave the cells in the charger for at least two hours more.

Reason for this is that once "done" appears, the Maha applies 60mah of current every hour (for two hours max) for topping off, thereafter it is one of the only true trickle chargers that applies a dinky 10mah of current every hour.

This two-hour topoff is not usually mentioned in the manual, but is part of the process as verified by Maha if you truly want the most accurate capacity measurement.

LSD vs "standard" impedance nimh: yep, the LSD's have much lower internal impedance, which has enough power to fire off high-drain devices like camera flashes etc much longer than standard nimh with their slightly higher impedance. However, since we are only powering a low-current scanner, that feature of LSD goes to waste.

You are very knowledgeable about batteries and the Maha. Have you ever used the Opus bt-c2000? Did you read what I thought works better then Maha and my theory behind having one of each? Is this a practical theory?

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[lawman210]

I would like this Maha chargers to have a function to let you know estimated end time to the process u have started. I have been battery sitting for 3 days never knowing when the process will end to rotate batteries. I have about 40 batteries I want to run through this new charger. It's going to take forever to get it down and now I have to wait for the second charger to come in so I can charge my daily batteries

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[Ed6698]

I would like this Maha chargers to have a function to let you know estimated end time to the process u have started. I have been battery sitting for 3 days never knowing when the process will end to rotate batteries. I have about 40 batteries I want to run through this new charger. It's going to take forever to get it down and now I have to wait for the second charger to come in so I can charge my daily batteries

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I do believe a "refresh and analyze" takes around 16 hours, "break in" around 39 hours. That is why I bought a 2nd charger. Now that the batteries are all ready and being used now, and not testing anything at all, I just use them for charging and a full discharge cycle after about 10 cycles of battery use in scanner, with each set. I vary the discharge rate also each time. However it is nice to have a 2nd charger, when things get a little battery busy.
Also I am not sure if you know with AAA batteries lower the default charge rate down to 500ma to 600ma, it will default to a charge rate of 1000ma which is a tad high.

 

[Ghstwolf62]

I would imagine 1.5 will work just fine if not I think there would have been some warning not to use standard alkaline batteries. The powerx batteries I have are 1.2 and measure 1.4 with a bolt Meter. I haven't measured them with a current draw as of yet

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Thanks that answers the question about lower voltage batteries working.

 

[lawman210]

Ok so when you select discharge and select 100 is this 100 mah per hour? Just looking at numbers and if you have 4 batteries with 1000.mah it would take 10 hours per battery and 40 hour hours?
I tried measuring a battery with a multimeter to find out what state of charge is in it before even throwing it on the charger but I'm not sure how to really check them. Voltage won't give you true values? Do you the mah function? Is there an easy digital tested that will show me what I need to know? I believe the Opus bt-c 2000 has a quick check function but not sure how quick. I love this Maha but it takes to long to come back with a reading

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[lawman210]

My first discharge attempt was with 3 batteries
Battery 1 numbers with Maha
2221 mah , 1467 min 1.18v
Battery 2
2041 mah, 1467 min, 1.19v
Battery 4
2064 mah, 1363 min 1.18v
Battery 4
0 min, 0 mah, 1.34 volt ???


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[lawman210]

So you only need to match batteries when using them? Charing them with a maha 9000 that has separate circuits u can put any mah battery in the charger and charge each one regardless of mah rating or condition?

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