Odd request, but, anyone have the following audio?

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E-542

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Does anyone still have the audio files of City Fire Disp, and City Fireground 2 from the infamous Millwork fire? I'm, honestly wanting to review these to see exactly what went wrong radio wise. Truth be told, I've been speaking to City Fire, PD, and county EMS folks(Will not name names for their security), and I've gotten a common vibe about the P25 PH2 system...They hate it. They don't like it, and it scares some cause it's gone down quite a few times, one fireman said, 'Ya know, it's almost like I can set my watch to the system crashes'... And the kicker is, I've read up on P25 vulnerabilities to jamming, detection of unit ID's, radio pinging, and most of all, the fact of how 'volatile' the encryption mode can be(Eg, forget to flip it on/don't know how/can't, EVEYRONE has to transmit 'open', or if you forget to flip back to open, DISP cannot hear you, you cannot hear DISP. And if you're PD in a situation where you're being shot at? That's BAD!), but worst of all that, is the fact Rowan County, DOES NOT SEEM TO HAVE A BACKUP!!! Emergency Services is all about the 'what if' so they can meet that 'what if' head-on and be ready for it. Apparently that was -not- the train of thought when they went to P25. At all. From what I've heard, in certain buildings, there is still coverage issues inside structures in the city of Salisbury, where units have to step -outside- to talk to Rowan. Because, say the fire is at, the train depot's maintenance basement. They have to hope their HT at, what. 5W maximum? Makes it THROUGH the basement ceiling/1st floor floor, and BUILDING, to get to the 800 repeater at the new Telecom center by the Fairgrounds/Station 87/Station 74, then BACK to the bloody command vehicle, less than 200ft away. And unlike a scanner, a Moto P25 radio that Salisbury/Rowan uses do NOT have a 'close call' feature they can turn on to listen to nearby freq's. And even if they did, they couldn't use it because that, IMO, would classify as a form of a 'VFO', of sorts, and thus be illegal for a Part 90 radio. So with that being said, I would honestly like to get a hold of this audio, and preferably audio that includes the P25 going down, showing it's weaknesses, etc. Considering how possible it is now to have another "justin isler/victor monroe' scenario, or something worse...? I'mma bring a case of this to Frank of the Rowan EMA. And see just MAYBE what I can do to talk some sense into him about at the -least-, putting the 154.250/155.7150/154.085/etc backups back in place for when we need them. I was told Rowan primarily went P25 for interop with Cabarrus and such counties... Well only ones that run P25 are Cabarrus; however they are a P25 PH1, which can actually be INCOMPATIBLE with a P25 PH2 system, due to differences in TDMA vs FDMA operation. There is also Mecklenburg, who uses a P25 PH1 also. Iredell uses a standard VHF/UHF system, so if what I'm lead to believe is true, we can no longer 'interop' with Iredell save for the digi-tg's MAYBE on the Motorola Type II SmartZone of Mooresville and the P25 PH1 of Statesville. Davie is out right VHF/UHF standard, so am I again to believe Rowan has lost all interopability with Davie save for using the (IF they can, cause again of differences between PH1 and PH2) VIPER network? Davidson also uses a straight VHF/UHF/VHF-Lo system, For the SO, EMS, FD, and EMA radios. Only real trunking system is the Moto Type II Smartnet of Thomasville City, with only Analog talkgroups...

So with the above, I am to believe if what I have heard, being true of P25 PH2, then Rowan is unable to perform interopability with their fancy 800 system, with the counties of Iredell, Davie, Davidson, and infact Stanly as well as Stanly is VHF/UHF/VHF-Lo, and maybe Cabarrus because of the differences of the lack of backwards compatibility from P25 PH2, to P25 PH1? Rowan and Cabarrus RELY on each other for mutual aid, with the depts of 41, 43, 44/58, 79, 46, 71/51, 70, 40/50, and 49. Mutual aiding frequently, agencies such as(Forgive any discrepancies, haven't been able to 'listen' since they went digi), Kannapolis City Fire, Cab. side of Mount Mitchell VFD, Cold Water VFD to some extent, Rimer VFD, Gold Hill for when they're paged to that area of cabarrus, etc. And have lost interop for stations aiding the VHF/UHF counties too? Surely this CANNOT be the case and I have missed something... Please tell me I have.

As it stands, I am somewhat, to say the least, disturbed of the 'drawbacks' of P25, and that Frank ACTUALLY decided this was a good idea even AFTER the previous 800 Smartnet was proven 'ineffective'. Making something fancier DOES NOT make it BETTER. Infact, that tends to make new problems, and make 'fancier' problems out of the old ones. (PS, when your system is able to be JAMMED by a bloody CHILDREN'S toy, and rendered useless, YOU HAVE A BIG, BIG, BIG PROBLEM!!!)

Finishing Scenario: It's a average day for you at Rowan Telecom. You answer the phone, it's a frantic caller about a working fire at the chemical plant on Cedar Springs Road, in Salisbury. You finish taking the info, then go to your tone-page on the dispatch console. you go to tone out Sals City, hazmat for precaution, Locke for RIC, Spencer, Ellis, South Salisbury, and Faith for on-scene aid and station backup. But something's wrong. You can't tone them out no matter what you do, your computer tells you there is a system error. So you fight with it a bit,t hen call the telecom-department head to ask what to do. He tells you to reset the radio system. So you do. While you're waiting for the P25 to come back up, you could've been using your olf VHF system; but it no longer exists because it was 'replaced' by a 'better' system. So you wait, and wait, and wait. It's just about done rebooting, and your 911 line rings again, so you answer it. It's someone else reporting that fire too, but this time with a large explosion reported. You call by phone Battalion 1 directly, and request he proceed to the scene to check, and explain radios are down. You get a call back after awhile, despite the fact your radios are up and running from Battalion 1, stating the plant has exploded, and to call the State Fire Marshal's Office, and other such Disaster related agencies. You ask why B1 didn't contact via radio, and he tells you, he did try. But it just wouldn't work....*End scenario* Congratulations, you just got hit with a unlikely, but VERY possible double-whammy. In that, you had another crash of your county's 'beloved' P25 system in which oyu actaully needed to reboot the radio system itself; and someone sabotaged the plant KNOWING about your radio system, and was able to successfully(which isn't hard to do on a P25) jam Fire and such radio transmissions. All, which could have been avoided, property and lives coulda been saved, and that place of business would still exist, plus more than likely other parts of the local business area there, if you had the backup frequencies of 154.250, 155.7150, 154.0850, 453.7750, and whatever the old Rowan Sheriff's Dept frequency used to be... If you had those to revert to for Toneout, and the old FG channels of VHF type to resort to, for on scene response, this could have been a lot simpler. Far fetched you say? Maybe... Maybe. But isn't that what FD/EMS/PD/EMA is supposed to take into consideration, and plan for just incase? That the 'absolute worst' at least has a plan of operation, should it come to pass?
 

kayn1n32008

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Yea... Do some research. Specifically how encryption does and does not work. What happens when a radio does and does not have the correct key(s) what happens when a user forgets to select secure, both with secure and non secure transmissions, and what strapped talk groups are. And research what happens when an FDMA only radio affiliates with a TDMA talk group.

Your post shows just how little you understand how a trunk system operates, how encryption works, and that the 'weaknesses' in P25 actually apply to ANY radio system, and are not unique to just P25. And this conclusion you have made is from second hand info to boot

I live in a city that has a 15-20 year old EDACS system that operates in mixed mode. It works VERY well.


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E-542

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Yea... Do some research. Specifically how encryption does and does not work. What happens when a radio does and does not have the correct key(s) what happens when a user forgets to select secure, both with secure and non secure transmissions, and what strapped talk groups are. And research what happens when an FDMA only radio affiliates with a TDMA talk group.

Your post shows just how little you understand how a trunk system operates, how encryption works, and that the 'weaknesses' in P25 actually apply to ANY radio system, and are not unique to just P25. And this conclusion you have made is from second hand info to boot

I live in a city that has a 15-20 year old EDACS system that operates in mixed mode. It works VERY well.


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Then, by all means, please educate me. I'm more than willing to learn about P25 trunked systems. What research I've done has been off of articles and such about problems with P25 systems. Give me some pointers on where to start researching link me some stuff, etc? And yes, absolutely 2nd hand info. I don't own and am not about to spend the however many thousands it is for a Motorola APX 7000xe. (Price list I found states that as of 2012, the price of a 7000xe is $3,400.00 per radio, with additional pricetags of $300 for P25 9600 Baud trunking, and $1,500 for whatever Smartzone operation is. radio packet data is a additional $200, and Internal GPS which I KNOW Rowan uses, is $100. From Moto anyway.) Because while, yes, alot of what I have is 2nd hand info... A good bit of it comes from first hand users such as Fire, EMS, PD, SO. And when -they- are saying it doesn't work, well... Yeah. But yes, I would be curious to know what parts of this I was wrong on and how I can correct that.
 

QDP2012

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Does anyone still have the audio files of City Fire Disp, and City Fireground 2 from the infamous Millwork fire? I'm, honestly wanting to review these to see exactly what went wrong radio wise....
If I understand what you are trying to do, it seems that NIOSH investigated this, too. If you haven't seen it yet, maybe their report will save you some time.

Excerpts quoted from NIOSH's August 17, 2009 report about the March 7, 2008 incident (section names are italicized):
  • Summary:.........."Key contributing factors identified in this investigation include radio communication problems (unintelligible transmissions in and out of the fire structure that may have led to misunderstanding of operational fireground communications)..."

  • Timeline and Responding Apparatus.........."NIOSH investigators reviewed the Fireground Channel 2 audio recordings. NIOSH investigators noted 1,043 transmissions were recorded from 0710.33 until 1041.03 hours. Out of these 1,043 transmissions, 101 transmissions were cut off and 323 (31%) were unintelligible. During the critical part of the incident from 0825 hours until 0925 hours, NIOSH investigators identified over 420 radio transmissions on Fireground Channel 2 with at least 125 transmissions that were partially or completely unintelligible (30%) and another 18 that were cut off."

  • Investigation..........This section gives a detailed timeline including pertinent info about radio transmissions.

  • Recommendations..........Recommendation #8 addresses radio system improvements.

The NIOSH report seems very detailed. If you haven't seen it, it's long, but informative. I doubt much more will be learned from scanner recordings.

Hope this helps,
 

CFP387

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I heard the call in it's entirety from work that morning. I didn't have any capability of recording the call but I do know that what I was hearing on what was then City FG2 was inaudible at times when the interior crews were working the millwork fire.

A few of us locals have discussed this matter many, many times. I feel like the county should've kept the VHF/UHF system as backup; not almost completely moving away from it. The frequencies are still owned by the county - all of them, but most aren't in use any longer. A lot of it has to do with politics and unfortunately, sometimes politics trumps safety and politics most always trumps common sense.

It's very sad that things went south the way they did at Salisbury Millwork. What we did learn from that day is that the system the county was using proved faulty but, then again, not every system is perfect. The system was old and out of date. I don't think that the P25 system that we are currently using is the entire answer but it's better than what we had. There is so much more this new system can do. Also, for us to meet the new "national standards", this move was necessary.

In my opinion, we do need the old VHF/UHF system as a backup. The new radios the county is using are capable of switching systems and can be setup to transmit radio to radio. I would like to see changes made in our county radio system to allow radios to be switched to the VHF/UHF system as a backup if the 800 system is inoperable. Simplex radio to radio transmission on a fire ground or emergency scene (much like our 8TAC91/91D Mutual Aid Interop) are sometimes crucial.

Understanding of how a trunking system works is one thing; speculation of how one thinks it should work is entirely different. Hindsight is 20/20 and everyone has their own personal opinion and "answer" for what should have been done that day or what needs to be done today. Look at it this way. Every computer program should have a reliable backup and what we have for our radio system is indeed a reliable backup. But what we need more than a backup to our 800 radio system is another secondary (not primary) stand alone system that is available to use if needed at any time. The technology is out there and I'd love to see us be able to use it.
 

msigmon3306

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They have to hope their HT at, what. 5W maximum? Makes it THROUGH the basement ceiling/1st floor floor, and BUILDING, to get to the 800 repeater at the new Telecom center by the Fairgrounds/Station 87/Station 74, then BACK to the bloody command vehicle, less than 200ft away


Interior fireground operations should NEVER be done on any type of repeated or trunked system precisely for the reason stated above. There are any number of 700 and 800 mhz simplex frequencies that can be used for this purpose. The state has designated six 700 mhz simplex frequencies with different NAC's for each county; we use them all the time for fireground. Building penetration is good, but in the 36 years I've been in emergency services I've rarely seen the radio that could get out of a deep basement to the IC on the outside, regardless of what band it's in or how powerful it is.
 

kayn1n32008

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It's very sad that things went south the way they did at Salisbury Millwork. What we did learn from that day is that the system the county was using proved faulty but, then again, not every system is perfect.

Here is a question. You claim the system was faulty.

Ok, was it the fault of the technology, or was the fault not having portable 'on belt' coverage inside a structure or was the fault having fire ground comms on the trunk system?

If the technology failed, then I fully agree, have a backup. I would question why fire ground comms were using the trunk network and not simplex. That is not the fault of the network, but of the people that made the policy of having the fire ground comms on the trunk network.

If the fault was that there was not portable 'on belt' coverage then it is not the fault of the system, but of the politicians that approved the system, AND the command staff that mandated FG comms on the trunk system.

It is easy to claim that the system was faulty, that's easy, the real hard part is analyzing and bringing to light the root cause of what the fault.

Edit:
Even from the report cited in this thread, it is difficult to tell if it was a coverage issue, or vocoder troubles that caused the breakdown in communication.

It is always easy to blame the technology. But much harder to find out WHY the failure happened.

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CFP387

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Let me make it clear that by saying that the term "system" in the sentence you quoted was not referring to the radio system, but to the standard of operations that they used. I do apologize for not making the difference between radio system and operating procedures.

The point I was trying to make was that when fire personnel on the scene find that they cannot communicate through their radios, they should be able to switch to an alternate radio system or simplex.
 

KM4WLV

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That was a very bad day in Rowan County and the City of Salisbury as a whole........ I was on that call, and the radio traffic still rings clear in my head to this day, and no I don't want to discuss it. I lost 2 very close brothers that day, as did a lot of other people.

You can do all the investigating you want but I'd be careful who you ask about what because this is still a very real, sore, and heartbreaking thing for a lot of those involved. There is a lot of toes to be stepped on and I don't think it would be met kindly, especially after what the department went through with the investigation. Be wise how you approach this...........

AND, if you knew or have listened to anything in Rowan County for any length of time you will in fact know that we have stand alone VHF TX & RX equipment that can be put in to use as a primary means if the P25 system goes down, as well as other means. And the VHF equipment is used everyday for paging, and used by a lot of the county departments to communicate with Rowan, and the 800/P25 is used for OPS. I'm not trying to be a jerk but you really need to think before you stir this up.
 
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KM4WLV

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Then, by all means, please educate me. I'm more than willing to learn about P25 trunked systems. What research I've done has been off of articles and such about problems with P25 systems. Give me some pointers on where to start researching link me some stuff, etc? And yes, absolutely 2nd hand info. I don't own and am not about to spend the however many thousands it is for a Motorola APX 7000xe. (Price list I found states that as of 2012, the price of a 7000xe is $3,400.00 per radio, with additional pricetags of $300 for P25 9600 Baud trunking, and $1,500 for whatever Smartzone operation is. radio packet data is a additional $200, and Internal GPS which I KNOW Rowan uses, is $100. From Moto anyway.) Because while, yes, alot of what I have is 2nd hand info... A good bit of it comes from first hand users such as Fire, EMS, PD, SO. And when -they- are saying it doesn't work, well... Yeah. But yes, I would be curious to know what parts of this I was wrong on and how I can correct that.
Rowan DOES NOT use GPS on their radios. And they bought APX6000's, not the 7000 line. None of the FD, EMS, or Rescue Squad radios use encryption. We have no need for it. The system is still being built out, and everyone's opinion is different. I love the technology and possibility of P25, but I also keep VHF & UHF equipment as a back up.

You need to do a LOT MORE research on your own and reading. Not to mention our new P25 system isn't a SmartZone system........ It's a simulcast P25 system with the same frequencies recycled/reused throughout the system. And the differences between Simulcast, SmartZone, Type 2, etc can be found with a simple search of the Wiki here, or Google........

Oh, one other note....... We're not using Phase 2 right now. The system is operating in Phase 1 until the system build out is complete. And what system crashes are you talking about setting your watch by? Rowan? There has not been a system failure since it came online, and the last critical system failure on the analog system was in 2004 during a storm. I monitor the system everyday from normally 0700 in the morning until I go to bed for the agency I'm with. It's not missed a beat, on 800 or VHF. The system itself didn't fail during the fire. If perhaps you're referring to the fire department & EMS paging issues after narrowbanding happened, numerous counties had problems. The bandwidth being used, 12.5 KHz, versus the Motorola Z Tone paging format we've used for 40+ years didn't play well together. Those problems have been fixed as well. 99.995% of the "problems" you cited aren't every relevant to anything used on county fire because they are options that aren't used because they are not needed.

This is going against my better judgement but let's do this........... Put a list out here in the open in this thread of questions you have about our system, or concerns you have. What I can answer, that isn't protected information, I will. What I'm bound not to I won't. I'll be happy to give you a run down on how our system operates because posting things like you did in this first post will make you a lot of enemies really quick. I'm not trying to be an a$$, I'm extending an olive branch to you to help educate you. I've been using the VHF, UHF, and 800 systems in this county for almost 20 years, and did spend time helping maintain it, as well as managing the contract of installing all the county owned radios in county owned vehicles until a vehicle accident and subsequent back surgeries ended that. I do still however use the system, and manage the radios and other "technology" for my agency & no I will not say who it is. Let me know if you'd like my help. I'm trying to save you some heartache and hurt feelings.
 
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PhillyPhoto

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They have to hope their HT at, what. 5W maximum? Makes it THROUGH the basement ceiling/1st floor floor, and BUILDING, to get to the 800 repeater at the new Telecom center by the Fairgrounds/Station 87/Station 74, then BACK to the bloody command vehicle, less than 200ft away


Interior fireground operations should NEVER be done on any type of repeated or trunked system precisely for the reason stated above. There are any number of 700 and 800 mhz simplex frequencies that can be used for this purpose. The state has designated six 700 mhz simplex frequencies with different NAC's for each county; we use them all the time for fireground. Building penetration is good, but in the 36 years I've been in emergency services I've rarely seen the radio that could get out of a deep basement to the IC on the outside, regardless of what band it's in or how powerful it is.
This is exactly what the NFPA recommends. Analog simplex on firegrounds. There's no better interopability than that. Outside logistics and operations I can see staying on on the system, but anyone going inside should be on a direct channel.

There is no need for "close call" on professionally programmed radios. Everyone should know their SOPs when operating on firegrounds as to what channels to use and when.

Phase 2 systems are backwards compatible, and when a Phase 1 radio affiliates, the talkgroup it's using switches to Phase 1 for voice.

Further reading: Interoperability Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference
 

KM4WLV

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This is exactly what the NFPA recommends. Analog simplex on firegrounds. There's no better interopability than that. Outside logistics and operations I can see staying on on the system, but anyone going inside should be on a direct channel.

There is no need for "close call" on professionally programmed radios. Everyone should know their SOPs when operating on firegrounds as to what channels to use and when.

Phase 2 systems are backwards compatible, and when a Phase 1 radio affiliates, the talkgroup it's using switches to Phase 1 for voice.

Further reading: Interoperability Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference
That is in fact what happens a good bit these days, and on every industrial operation. Use is made of the 8TAC direct channels, especially in Salisbury City. But there are those that still swear their traffic needs to go through a repeater 10 miles away to talk to someone 25 feet away, but I digress.

The radio's SFD operate have an independent alert button that will set off a "warble" tone on whatever channel/TG is selected on the radio indicating an emergency, instead of hitting the also programmed emergency button alerting Rowan 911. However the Batt Chief's vehicle can see who's radio is transmitting on what, and if someone hits the actual emergency button, who it is. It's also equipped with a DVRS for on scene comm's as needed.
 

KM4WLV

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I'mma bring a case of this to Frank of the Rowan EMA. And see just MAYBE what I can do to talk some sense into him about at the -least-, putting the 154.250/155.7150/154.085/etc backups back in place for when we need them.
I missed this yesterday........ Frank doesn't control the operation and maintenance of the radio system or equipment anymore. You'll be wasting your time. And as I said before all the VHF stuff you've got listed is still licensed, and used by departments that utilize VHF in our county. Hopefully you'll see this and we can talk.
 

CFP387

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And as I said before all the VHF stuff you've got listed is still licensed, and used by departments that utilize VHF in our county.
This is the point I was making in an earlier post. We have VHF and UHF frequencies available and all in your list but 154.085 is used on a daily basis. We SHOULD have 154.085,153.77,155.055 and 154.07 (along with the 8TAC direct channels they already have) available to use by every department (including the City) for fireground operations if the radio can't reach the repeater. (Think about the old RCSO and SPD UHF frequencies as well).

I think that's partly where our standard operating procedures and systems have failed. We had and still have those frequencies available yet being able to utilize them is almost out of the question when working an incident. We still have the capability of using 340 and 280 but they are rarely used as well. Reliable VHF simplex communication is still the best way to communicate and I would be happy to see it reinstated as a backup in our county.
 

KM4WLV

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This is the point I was making in an earlier post. We have VHF and UHF frequencies available and all in your list but 154.085 is used on a daily basis. We SHOULD have 154.085,153.77,155.055 and 154.07 (along with the 8TAC direct channels they already have) available to use by every department (including the City) for fireground operations if the radio can't reach the repeater. (Think about the old RCSO and SPD UHF frequencies as well).

I think that's partly where our standard operating procedures and systems have failed. We had and still have those frequencies available yet being able to utilize them is almost out of the question when working an incident. We still have the capability of using 340 and 280 but they are rarely used as well. Reliable VHF simplex communication is still the best way to communicate and I would be happy to see it reinstated as a backup in our county.
I agree 100% with you, always have :D

That's why I always told everyone that asked or still do ask why I keep VHF equipment (mobiles and portables in my fleet). Not to mention you still get better coverage on VHF simplex than you do with 800 simplex, especially with the portable that I have that will put out at 6 1/2 watts.

Shannon, I say we just take over. Don't ask, just go in and take over LOL (For what it's worth at Station 4 the old ALF (Ladder 4) and Safety 1 both have Motorola Mostar VHF's still in them :D ) Safety 1 is just because that was Chief Fes's truck before he retired and he had it put in there specifically.
 
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KM4WLV

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I would love to team up and take over I don't think most of them would like it!
Ain't that the truth, :lol:

Well I'm guessing that a tutorial or lesson isn't wanted by our OP in this thread. E542 if that changes and you decide you'd like a lesson on how things work feel free to let me know and I'll make a tutorial, that matter of fact, I will post in the Wiki here at RadioReference for others to use if needed. Until then please make informed posts and don't spread information that isn't true or is only speculation. That's what gets people mad and feelings hurt. Doing a simple search either here, or various other ways (Google, Bing, etc) will often give you loads of information. And the Wiki here at RR is one of the best places to get the information you'd need.

Again understand I'm just trying to help and keep the spread of misinformed information from getting thrown out causing the confusion of others. I'm sure you understand.

****** EDIT ****** - I found this in the RR Tavern - Rant forum from our OP..........

Ok, so -apparently- I've been stepping on some toes as I was just told in an email, over something in the past that is long and over with? WEll...Gee. Nice to bring it to my face you guys. Way to sit behind your little PM boxes and ***** about me to each other. I can suspect who some of these folks are, too. Long story short, saw a HT1000 on Craigslist for a good price, was inquiring about getting it when it was asked if I was this RR User, and upon it being known I was, I was immediately asked 'Didn't you disrupt rowan 911 communications and aren't allowed to have radios?'... No. My house caught fire YEARS, and I mean freakin' YEARS ago!!!! I think it was 2010. Either way, I used County Fire VHF to call it in AS PER the FCC Rules as I at the time didn't have another line of communication. No cell at the time, and my neighbors weren't around. So what, I was sposed to walk the neighborhood LOOKING for someone who was home? SCREW that. I called it in on County FIre, IDing with my HAM callsign proper and such... Following the FCC's rules which SUPERSEDE any apparent 'butthurt' over me using 154.250MHz. So in court, guess what? I was NOT convicted of the initial arson charge. And was -acquitted- of any and all charges involving the radio stuff. My stipulations from Judge Brown? Pay restitution to the homeowner(Check and done.... More than fair, yeah it was accident but it still happened and damaged their property, only fair), serve community service(Done and done..), and not own any legal public safety equipment during the period of my probation...Again, check and done. I got rid of my Motorola radio, put into storage away from me and any ready access to me, my minitor I pager, and III I have as well. Same for my old light I used as a volunteer. But guess what? <b>That's over with and done</b>!!! My 'punishment' has been LONG served and paid for. But apparently, according to whom was selling this radio? I will not name him out of respect, however here is a direct quote from the email he sent me.

"Yeah OK that's all I needed to know. I thought your name looked familiar, you've been quite a hot topic recently among the two-way LMR community in this area, your posts on RR are not helping your case either...

I'm going to pass on selling the radios and advise that you tread very carefully in your effort to obtain access to 800 MHz systems and having public safety frequencies programmed in your radios at all. You're the last person that needs to have access to any kind of communications equipment.


Thanks,"

So it sounds like I've been stepping on toes here, and no-one's had the damn scrot to step up and tell me? I thought we all were -responsible- adults here where we could talk about our problems instead of passing notes at the back of the class in secret, so to speak. When someone has paid their dues, and in FOUR years hasn't done anything -remotely- similar to this? And also when specifying channels for this HT1000 ALSO specified that he wanted the pub-safety channels to have a NO TX option? Yet I still get treated like this!? Yeah good riddance radioreference. You all can play with your little home patrol's, and bearcat's, and GRE's and stuff. I"m going to be sticking with the community that stuck by me, the amateur radio community. Where, ya know... We use radios, not scanners. In closing, also, for that 'You're the last person that needs to ahve access to any kind of communications equipment' part? If you all agree with that? My amateur call is KJ4SKB. It's got my house address there. Send the cops, do it. If you're going to be a 'keyboard commando', then put some action behind those words. Elsewise, you just end up looking like a internet troll who's all bark and no bite. Whether you guys feel I should have radio's or not, I don't give a flying f-word about. I own quite a few, three Baofeng's, a radioshack 2m, and a HF. As is my legal right to. So yeah. That's you all's collective opinion's about me? Good bloody riddance to all of you.

I'm not sure if the mods will agree but I think this thread has ran it's course & perhaps would be best to close it down........... Again that's just my opinion and I hope it doesn't get me in trouble. There's a lot more to this story but now's not the time or place. ***Mods, if I'm in the wrong for saying this or posting this quote which is probably why he's not responded to my offer to help I apologize.***
 
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