Official Uniden BC246T Scanner Thread

[4phun]

Took a few reads but I think I follow and am very excited... But is there a limit to the total number of talkgroups or does that just subtract from the 3,300 "grand total" of talkgroups + conv freqs?

- Rob

Yes it does.

BTW since each talkgroup with alpha tag and frequency with alpha tag takes two memory positions the combined total is somewhat less than 1650 possible. The reason for less than is that there are other factors that also use memory positons as place holders and they eat up memory also.

Still this scanner compares favorably with other stock Uniden scanners which have far more useable memory but waste a lot of it in real life programming.

 

[4phun]

Thinking outside the BOX of 10 X 100 is a start

This is not your average moe's entry level scanner here! It has everything, every bell and whistle one could dream of. Dynamic memory, 3300 possible channels, a built in reaction tuning frequency counter, DC to daylight coverage, alpha tags for everything, PC control, and so much more it boggles the mind! But no digital.
-AZ

This scanner is far from DC to Daylight. The PRO-96 covers a far greater range when opened up.

But the greatest omission is the federal mil-air spectrum found in other Uniden scanners like the BC780. One has to ask, why did they leave that out?

And 3,300 possible channels would be – no alpha tags or other goodies, add those in and the figure drops rapidly below 1650 for combined talkgroups and frequency channels. Compare that to a scanner with 150 talkgroups per bank and ten banks for storage of 1500 talkgroups alone. Add another 500 frequency channels and you are up to 2000 for combined talkgroups and frequency channels with alpha tags. Then think of the memory management feature that scanner has which pushes that figure well over 20,000 with alpha tags compared to a mere 1500 to 1650 with alpha tags.

The exciting thing about the 246T is it makes good use of the limited amount of memory Uniden endowed it with, especially compared to their other products that lack memory management beyond the box of ten banks of 100 each for channels and talkgroups.

BUT the biggest reason the 246T is a non starter is it simply does not do DIGITAL of any kind. It simply has too short a potential useful life. The more money HOMELAND DEFENSE pours into local trunking systems the more rapidly they are switching to DIGITAL. Almost all new radios being bought today are DIGITAL even though they are being used in analog mode until all the components are in place to make the switch.

This radio needs to be really cheap to offset its limited usefulness as a scanner.

 

[4phun]

BC246T "system" QK concept applied to the PRO-96 =

I have been inspired by the discussion of the 246T to see if I could apply some of the programming concepts of the Uniden 246T to the PRO-96. Particularly intriging was the idea of grouping stuff so a single key could select say all police tac units in an area or say just all FIRE dispatches from multiple trunking systems with just the press of a single key.

Here is the link to the news article. I am VERY excited about the "system" programming concept.

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=475

Well the results are in.

The programming of the PRO-96 with multiple TRS in the same bank scanning just for FIRE DISPATCHES in the metro area has been a resounding success. It actually works better than I anticipated!

I programmed the following systems all in one group to create a quick key 4 press to activate scanning of only the FIRE CHANNELS in the greater Metro Atlanta area. The way the PRO-96 is designed you can have multiple systems assigned to just one key (bank). In practice a PRO-96 group activated by one key is limited to eight different trunking systems and eighteen conventional systems if they all rotate their control channels among four different frequencies.

The following programming structure I used today uses a PRO-96 programming trick of separating trunking groups in the list by two non trunked channels. That way the PRO-96 will follow all systems and channels in this FIRE group.

ATL METRO FIRE

Cobb * 0920 857.98750 MOT 0.0 D
Cobb * 0920 858.98750 MOT 0.0 D
Cobb * 0920 859.98750 MOT 0.0 D
Cobb * 0920 860.21250 MOT 0.0 D
Newton FD 1 154.20500 CT 114.8 D
FULTON Fire 154.32500 CT 0.0 D
Atlanta 7e00 856.46250 MOT 0.0 D
Atlanta 7e00 858.76250 MOT 0.0 D
Atlanta 7e00 858.46250 MOT 0.0 D
Atlanta 7e00 859.23750 MOT 0.0 D
Mutual Aid 154.28000 FM 0.0 D
GC FD 154.41500 FM 0.0 D
DeKalb *0307 857.96250 MOT 0.0 D
DeKalb *0307 858.96250 MOT 0.0 D
DeKalb *0307 859.96250 MOT 0.0 D
DeKalb *0307 860.96250 MOT 0.0 D
Clayton Fire 460.60000 CT 203.5 D
Clayton Fire 460.35000 CT 0.0 D
Rockdale 852.73750 MOT 0.0 D
Rockdale 853.43750 MOT 0.0 D
Rockdale 853.76250 MOT 0.0 D
Rockdale 854.16250 MOT 0.0 D
Rockdale 868.57500 MOT 0.0 D
Clayton EMS 453.40000 CT 107.2 D
Clayton Fire 453.30000 CT 107.2 D
Walton *433B 851.08750 MOT 0.0 D
Walton *433B 851.81250 MOT 0.0 D
Walton *433B 853.93750 MOT 0.0 D
Walton *433B 854.41250 MOT 0.0 D
CollegePark 154.26500 CT 0.0 D
East Point F 158.77500 CT 107.2 D
GWINNET*2D31 857.83750 MOT 0.0 D
GWINNET*2D31 857.91250 MOT 0.0 D
GWINNET*2D31 858.78750 MOT 0.0 D
GWINNET*2D31 858.81250 MOT 0.0 D
Riverdale FD 151.25750 CT 0.0 D
Union City F 154.29500 CT 0.0 D
Fulton *750D 855.66250 MOT 0.0 D
Fulton *750D 856.38750 MOT 0.0 D
Fulton *750D 857.38750 MOT 0.0 D
Fulton *750D 858.41250 MOT 0.0 D
Jonesboro FD 460.62500 CT 107.2 D
Morrow FIRE 154.07000 CT 0.0 D
Bank 4 Ch 43 0.00000 FM 0.0 D
Bank 4 Ch 44 0.00000 FM 0.0 D
Bank 4 Ch 45 0.00000 FM 0.0 D
Bank 4 Ch 46 0.00000 FM 0.0 D
ForestPark F 851.68750 CT 127.3 D
Griffin FIRE 155.72250 CT 0.0 D
Hapeville FD 154.35500 CT 0.0 D

I could copy all the trunking systems but Rockdale and Walton while driving around in Cobb. The big surprise was that I could get Gwinnett Fire out past Cobb General Hospital on Austell Road. This single bank would be perfect for folks like Total Traffic in that they could copy all the key dispatches which would tip them to serious wrecks that may tie up traffic.

As a matter of fact I called WGST and tipped them to a possible breaking story of a evacuation in S Fulton at CampCreek and I-285 when a gas main broke at the Red Lobster in Market Square. This was just a minute after I programmed this group in bank 4 in my PRO-96 under this new scheme. WGST said they got it on their fire pager as I was talking to them. The system was East Point Fire, a conventional channel.

Now that leads to another discovery. A PRO-96 user can copy any of those conventional channels into the PRIORITY channel. Turn PRIORITY on and the PRO-96 will check it every two seconds for traffic even while tied up with a trunking talkgroup. When the activity you are interested in ceases just toggle PRIORITY OFF again. The PRO-96 is different from current Uniden products in that PRIORITY of conventional channels or even a weather alert channel works while trunktracking.


There are several tweaks and other adjustments to this scheme of 'system programming' that I have thought of already.

I may do another one just for operation H.E.A.T. where one scans all of the tactical talkgroups on the various metro systems used to nail the public. That would be my one button anti- H.E.A.T. PRO-96 awareness system. ;>)

BTW would you like to help? I would appreciate suggested talkgroups from any metro system that you know for a fact is used by H.E.A.T. Email me directly or post here until we get them identified. I will share my results with you also as I work it out.

http://snipurl.com/6vd7


Things I have discovered today.

You can store up to eight trunking systems in PRO-96 one bank if you know the control channels.

It appears that you don't have to strictly have an FM mode separating systems. AM, CT and DC channel modes work also. This is nice since the instant PL tone decode is a very nice feature of the PRO-96 and it helps keep conventional channels separated according to known systems.

In open mode and where there is lots of activity it seems that it takes awhile to move from trunking system to trunking system.

Open mode scanning is more or less like using a Uniden scanner with eight trunking systems (800 channels in 8 banks) set aside and running in Uniden trunk search mode but you only need 46 PRO-96 channels to do it in.

In closed mode it shoots through the group only stopping for the active permitted talkgroups. This is the best way to effectively listen for just the fire dispatches in the metro area with its myriad of complex systems.

HYBRID SYSTEMS like Fulton are a problem. Since I left it as a Type 2 bank Fulton FIRE a type 1 system in the Fulton TRS never came up. The Fulton FD simulcast on VHF solved that particular problem and I could delete Fulton County trunking system, but I am keeping it until I figure out a way to copy Fulton FD with a simulated type 2 ID.

Now for Dan's questions and comments.

It wouldn't be much of an issue here where the different systems use different blocks, but how would it handle needing to monitor the same talkgroup number on two different systems (i.e. pretend talkgroup 48 were fire dispatch on Atlanta and also on Fulton County). Would you just program it once and share a text label? Any way to differentiate and keep it separate using this method? And how would you know which you are hearing (except by content of conversation)?

SIMILAR TALKGROUPS from different systems. Only one seemed to hit in my list and that was the Walton County FD talkgroup matched a Cobb County PD private channel. Little traffic appeared on that while listening today. How did I know that things were not right. First PD traffic when I expected to only hear fire department traffic, the other was the PRO-96 display.

The PRO-96 displays up to 48 alpha characters in four lines every time it stops. The third line displays the tag for the active control channel and the forth line displays the alpha tag for the talkgroup or with a toggle the actual talkgroup ID. So if I see Cobb * 0920 and the last line is WCFD *ch-1* I know that the tag isn't correct, but if I see Walton *433B and WCFD *ch-1* I know I am dead on that is a Walton County fire department dispatch.

One simple solution to this problem would be to use two banks and put systems with conflicting talkgroups in separate banks. If two different systems used the exact same talkgroup for fire dispatch one solution would be to merely tag it FIRE DISPATCH and rely on looking at the third line to see which system was active. In real life it is even simpler for you know without looking which system it is by listening to the area equipment is being sent. If you know the roads you know more or less where it has to be.
Another less suitable solution is to put the talkgroups in different sub banks and locking out the ones that are not even close enough to be heard.
Walton County is too far east to hear it reliably in Cobb where I live. So that could be potentially put in another sub group which I would activate if on the east side of metro area.

Wouldn't it be easier to just do a search from 851 to 869 with Trunk mode turned on, so it starts trunk tracking as soon as it discovers a control channel, and then continues searching for the next one when there is no longer conversations on that system. On the BC296 you go to "search range", enter your frequency range, and then select "on" in "trunk". This way you can monitor ALL 800 MHz trunked systems as you drive, not just the frequencies you happened to program.

First the PRO-96 doesn't just start trunktracking while in search mode. You have to store the found frequency first then you can CC trunktrack it. Also there is the issue that there are a lot of different trunking systems you are going to discover. Some are going to be LTR, EDACS, PRO-VOICE as well as business SMRs and such.

In the case of the metro area I am interested only in finding related public safety services that may affect me. I have relatively little interest in the other stuff other then simple curiosity from time to time. I know when traveling I have absolutely no interest what so ever in anything other than what may affect the roads I am on. Preprogramming many systems in the same bank along with related conventional channels makes that possible. A user who adopts this type of PRO-96 memory management can scan both trunk and conventional at the same time. He isn't limited to the trunking search mode you suggest.

> I only thought about the application of scanning just the fire channels
> with just the push of a button after I read Dan's post this evening. It
> is stuff like Dan's post that helps one to think outside the box of 10 X
> 100 everyone is used to.


Yes, and man will it be nice to move beyond the 10 x 100 framework!

I suspect there is going to be one very big gottcha in the Uniden 246T that some may no have noticed. The reason there was a 10 X 50 or 10 X 100 is that you can select the bank with the ten digits 0-9. I strongly suspect the 246T still has that 10 X limitation on Quick Keys after reading the description of how it works. QK0 - QK9. Each of those ten groups may have ten sub groups, again FQK-FQK9. Dang it sounds a lot like the structure of any Uniden scanner except you are not limited as to how big or little a group may be.

> Anyone know for sure? Does anyone care to try the PRO-96 trick on a
> Uniden Digital Scanner to see if it functions the same way, it might.

I just tried. Unless I'm doing something wrong, it does NOT work. This is probably what you give up to get the faster multi-trunk scanning. We discussed a while back the fact that the BC296D "remembers" where it found the control channel on each system, so it can come back to it instantly on each loop through multiple trunk systems without taking the milliseconds to find it again each time. As a result, it won't look for a second control channel in the same bank.

Well I was sort of hoping the PRO-96 programming trick would work in a Uniden scanner. I can easily see there is a lot of wasted memory in the way most people program most Uniden scanners, all one has to do is examine some of those .mem files submitted to various web sites, rename the extension to .xls and open in Excel or look at them in notepad if that is all you have. The BC246T is Uniden's solution to having more than ten trunking systems in a scanner.

The digital PRO-96's memory management is much more flexible than any other current scanner until the introduction of the 246T and of course there is a lot more available memory in the PRO-96 than there is in the 246T and at least double that amount of memory is rumored to be in the new desktop/ mobile digital scanner from GRE.

> The 246T is interesting but almost obsolete in that it doesn't do
> DIGITAL! You can take this tip to the bank; the future of analog
> scanning in the US is limited.

Obsolete is probably a little strong, but no doubt they are taking a lot of crap for not including digital. You're exactly right that the future of analog scanning is limited, but the present of analog scanning is quite abundant, much more so than digital. It's a good scanner to play with today, not a few years from now.

Price wise, the reality is that this BC246T is actually the Pro-95's competition, and when you compare those two, Uniden will have done a pretty good job slapping the Pro-95 around. But you're right that without digital, it doesn't matter how cool the features and programming style is, it absolutely will not compare to the Pro-96 or BC296. I guess that's what we have to look forward to. Personally, I'd rather see the new framework sooner in a cheap analog scanner than wait for integration of digital into it.

I agree it is always interesting to see something new. Not everyone is in a position to switch to digital right now and if Uniden adds the 246T's better features to a decent digital scanner with lots of memory like the GRE then they will have a very desirable product as people switch to digital later.

Vic

 

[UPMan]

I suspect there is going to be one very big gottcha in the Uniden 246T that some may no have noticed. The reason there was a 10 X 50 or 10 X 100 is that you can select the bank with the ten digits 0-9. I strongly suspect the 246T still has that 10 X limitation on Quick Keys after reading the description of how it works. QK0 - QK9. Each of those ten groups may have ten sub groups, again FQK-FQK9. Dang it sounds a lot like the structure of any Uniden scanner except you are not limited as to how big or little a group may be.

Not really a gotcha, here. A system can have any quick key, or even no quick key at all. You can independently turn on a system by scrolling to it and unlocking it (the slow way) or by toggling its quick key. Plus, every system assigned to a quick key is otherwise completely independant. If two systems on the same quick key use the same TGID's for different things, it won't matter. Quick keys were actually an afterthout...a way to continue to have some of the feel of "traditional" scanners, but you don't have to use them. With all other models, the 0-9 keys are basic to the structure of the scanner's operation.

 

[AZScanner]

Alright, I'm done *****ing about no digital capabilities here. It does seem like a great scanner from the sounds of things and I just might have to get one for the S&G factor. So that leads me to the one thing that no one has really talked about yet - the Remote Interface. (For those who haven't a clue what I'm talking about, Remote Interface refers to the commands you send to the unit via PC to program and control the radio.)

Anyone care to speculate how different this scanner will be from a software point of view? I like to write my own programming software for the Unidens since it's really quite simple to do and saves me a ton of time versus programming by hand.

The traditional scanners have formatted commands for programming channels and talkgroups. When programming a frequency, you simply supply a channel # and a frequency to the command. When you program a talkgroup you supply bank, list, location and talkgroup. Alphatags are generally assigned the same way.

But how will that work in the new scanner? Can we expect to see some new commands in the remote interface as well? Or will the old ones be taught new tricks?

Here's how I'd like to see it done...this makes the most sense to me:

PM [type] [loc] [data];[alpha]

PM = Program Memory

[type] Specifies the type of data being stored in memory. Could be F for frequency, T for talkgroup S for system, etc.

[loc] Specifies the memory location to store the data. Could be 0000 to 3299 (1 to 3300, in computer terms)

[data] Specifies what to store. The format of this parameter depends on the [type] parameter. For example:

PM S 0000 C 0010;PHOENIX POLICE
(System definition, slot 1, conventional, 10 channels)
PM F 0001 C 01548900 D1 N01;NORTH CHASE
(Frequency, conventional, 154.8900MHz, Delay setting 1, PL setting 1)

and so on..

[alpha] The alpha tag assigned to the memory location. Since just about everything in this radio can be alpha tagged, it makes sense to add that to the command rather than create a seperate alphatagging command as was done before. The ';' character tells the scanner that the data parameter has ended and the remaining 16 bytes of data is the alphatag.

Again, this is just speculation on my part, but this is one way it could work. Thoughts?

-AZ

 

[UPMan]

Protocol will be published on Uniden's web site a couple of months in advance of availability. For example, BC898T protocol was posted last week (and the product should be available in August).

There will be some differences, but not how you show. Memory slots are all handled internally to the scanner and are invisible to the user (some are used for system definitions, some are used for group or "scan list" definitions, some are used for WX FIPS code lists, some are used for scan lists, some are used for channels, some are used for channel alpha tags, etc). No way to know in advance what a particular slot will be used for, and as the memory is dynamic, the definition for a particular slot could change if memory is shuffled.

Beyond this, will have to wait and see.

 

[AZScanner]

Protocol will be published on Uniden's web site a couple of months in advance of availability. For example, BC898T protocol was posted last week (and the product should be available in August).

It "WILL"?....how the heck did you find this out?

Wait a minute.... UPMAN? Ohhhhhhhh... I get it.

That's good... I should have caught on to that sooner. I'm obviously slipping in my old age. Very, very good. 8)

Alright then "UPMan", I'll wait for the protocol. Thanks.

-AZ

 

[Landman]

What I want to know is, with this new memory management system, will I still be able to select a particular talkgroup by pressing manual, list #, Position #, manual, or if not manual, then whatever key.

And

Will reducing the number of batteries to two make the loudest possible volume lower than previous Uniden scanners. Uniden is not exactly known for the the quality of its audio. Don't make the scanner smaller at the expense of volume. What is loud enough in a quiet room is inadequate in a car at 70 MPH.

 

[4phun]

What I want to know is, with this new memory management system, will I still be able to select a particular talkgroup by pressing manual, list #, Position #, manual, or if not manual, then whatever key.

And

Will reducing the number of batteries to two make the loudest possible volume lower than previous Uniden scanners. Uniden is not exactly known for the the quality of its audio. Don't make the scanner smaller at the expense of volume. What is loud enough in a quiet room is inadequate in a car at 70 MPH.

Who said it had a speaker?

 

[JoeyC]

No doubt the scanner will have a weaker audio output. Uniden has decreased the audio power on its scanners for as long as I can remember. They haven't had acceptable audio power on a handheld since the 200xlt. Even the desktops are pitiful. Wouldn't surprise me if this scanner came without a speaker. You almost have to have your own speaker and amplification system to hear them as they are anyway!

 

[Landman]

Who said it had a speaker?

Duuh! Have you looked at the picture? Would it make any sense whatsoever to make a handheld scanner without one?

 

[UPMan]

Channels are not numbered. There will be a relatively quick way to get to a channel: Quick Recall (F+7)

Scroll to Select System <E>
Scroll to Select Group <E>
Scroll to Select Channel <E>

4 keypresses and 3 scrolls. This is one of the trade-offs of a dynamic structure.

Right now, I guess it is MAN, digit, digit, digit, MAN -- 5 keypresses.

 

[4phun]

Who said it had a speaker?

Duuh! Have you looked at the picture? Would it make any sense whatsoever to make a handheld scanner without one?

In the world of more sophisticated 'small scanners' it is the norm over the years not to have a speaker. These are the ones you see in Ham Radio Outlets. Some are as tiny as a credit card. All run on a double AA set of batteries or less.

If Uniden gives you a speaker consider it a bonus even if it is tinny and has low audio.


ki4je

 

[AZScanner]

Who said it had a speaker?

OK Vic, that was worse than my "DC to Daylight" comment that you blasted me on. You can clearly see in the picture on UPMan's avatar that the scanner HAS a speaker.

-AZ

 

[UPMan]

Actually, that area that looks like a speaker grill actually has a small fan behind it to pull air circulation through the scanner for cooling.








Gotcha! :twisted:

 

[AZScanner]

Actually, that area that looks like a speaker grill actually has a small fan behind it to pull air circulation through the scanner for cooling.... Gotcha! :twisted:

Maybe they're speed holes, so that when you've finally lost it trying to program the thing by hand it will fly farther and faster.... Just another example of how Uniden is leaving no stone unturned in this revolutionary new radio!

-AZ

 

[scanfan03]

It's a new voteing system.

Each hole is a different candidate. The president or mayor will tell you which hole is for which candidate before the election. The election card goes in where the digital card would go. Then with Radio Shacks flawless (literally) 800 MHz antenna (It won't do it with any other antenna) it will send the vote to the closest voteing station to you wirelessly. This is the new way of voteing, they want to make this the primary way, so every body go buy a brand new $300 even if you are in an area where they use digital so you can have the convience of wireless voteing!!!! :twisted:

 

[NINN27]

5 dollars says FL would still screw the votes up with the "WIRELESS SYSTEM"

lol... sorry to all FL residents... im in a mood

 

[mobilemetal]

Any news or rumors of a release date for this scanner?

 

[cellblock776]

The July/August issue of National Communications magazine has an article on the new Uniden scanners and says it is due out in November.
Steve