Orange County NY 911

[SCPD]

Not sure who you talked to but the county is providing agencies with an adequate number of radios. Remember on the fire side the new system is not replacing the current UHF fireground plan so not every firefighter needs a 7/800 radio. EMS is getting a portable for every active riding member. Departments that wish to purchase additional radios can purchase another manufactures radio if they wish as long as its Phase 2 capable. Some proprietary features may not be available on these radios but they will work on the system. Simulcast paging wasn't done years ago because the current microwave system lacks the needed bandwith.

In Rockland County, the police agencies use the APX6000 radios on the 700/800 system.The fire & EMS agencies use the APX7000 radios. FDs use the 700/800 system when responding to calls, when they get on scene, they use UHF fireground channels. Paging for FDs is also done of UHF & all radio transmissions on the 700/800 Fire 1 TG are repeated on the UHF paging channel. This allows all firefighters to use their UHF pagers & UHF portables to monitor the transmissions of responding units. So, not every firefighter needs an APX7000 radio. Also, 44 Control has the capability to monitor & if needed, transmit on the County FG channels (FG Tact 1-6). At 44 Control, they have their consoles connected to Broadcastify, so anyone can listen to all the FD channels over the internet or via a cellphone app. It is a nice added feature.
EMS agencies still get paged over VHF, but the tones and voice are also simulcasted over the 700/800 EMS talk groups. Since the pager function does not work on the 700/800 trunked system, this is done just to alert members who may not have their pagers on or have their radios tuned to only to the 700/800 system.
The good thing for the FD & EMS agencies, is that, if the 700/800 system happens to go completely down, UHF & VHF systems can be used as a backup.
All of these things mention above, should be considered for the new OC Radio System.

 

[APX8000]

This is exactly my point of putting the right people in place to develop/design a system with backups/redundancies. Everything discussed in the previous post was well thought out and each feature has a specific purpose. As you can see, the system admin did a fantastic job of covering things in Rockland. I know he has been of great assistance to Orange County with several things and hope OC follows suit with what Rockland has done.


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[GTR8000]

The fire & EMS agencies use the APX7000 radios.

FD portables are overwhelmingly APX 6000; only a few departments have purchased a handful of their own APX 7000's after the initial allocation from the county.

Also, 44 Control has the capability to monitor & if needed, transmit on the County FG channels (FG Tact 1-6).

The Fireground resources on the MCC 7500 consoles at 44-Control are receive-only; there is no transmit capability. In fact, the hardware at each subsite are GPW 8000 receivers, which physically lack a transmitter.

 

[SCPD]

I stand corrected on the Fire Ground channels. I was under the assumption that 44 Control could monitor & transmit on the FG channels. Either way, at least the dispatchers have the ability to monitor the FG channels in case anything goes wrong.

 

[SCPD]

Either way, OC911 needs to take a look at the way that Rockland County has their 700/800 radio system set up and try to set it up the same way.

 

[trauma74]

I heard that OC911 is getting some assistance in setting up the new 700/800 radio system, from Rockland County Emergency Communications.

 

[SCPD]

Here are a few questions that I have about the new 700/800 radio system that OC is working on?

1. Are Town/Village/County DPWs going to be included in this new system?

2. Will every single police, fire and EMS agency be on this system?

3. If EMStar and Mobile Life Support Services are going to be part of this system, are they only going to have the the County EMS talk groups or are they going to have their own talk groups on this system for their own dispatchers to communicate with them?

4. Are the fire and EMS agencies that respond mutual aid into Orange County on a regular basis going to have radios to communicate on this new system? If not, then how are they going to notify OC911 of their response and how are they going to communicate with other local agencies?

5.Are their going to be an lowband, VHF or UHF cross band links to the 700/800 radio system for the agencies who do not decide or cannot afford to be on the new radio system?

6. Is every police department going to get enough radios for every vehicle & every police officer?

7. How many portable radios are going to be given to each fire department?

8. Will every active member of every volunteer ambulance corps get a portable radio?

9. How many talk groups will each agency get?

10. What model of portable radio will be the agencies get? Will it depend of the type of agency?

11. Will the current lowband & VHF radio systems remain in place as a backup in case the 700/800 goes down?

If anyone has the answers to these questions, please post them. Thank you.

 

[Comspec333]

Here are a few questions that I have about the new 700/800 radio system that OC is working on?

1. Are Town/Village/County DPWs going to be included in this new system?
- County DPW, yes. Other Public Works are still TBD, each agency will decide for themselves.

2. Will every single police, fire and EMS agency be on this system?
- That is the concept

3. If EMStar and Mobile Life Support Services are going to be part of this system, are they only going to have the the County EMS talk groups or are they going to have their own talk groups on this system for their own dispatchers to communicate with them?
- These specific agencies will likely wish to keep their own systems on line because they dispatch their units through multiple Counties, not just Orange.

4. Are the fire and EMS agencies that respond mutual aid into Orange County on a regular basis going to have radios to communicate on this new system? If not, then how are they going to notify OC911 of their response and how are they going to communicate with other local agencies?
- Depends on what out of county agencies you are referring to, some will be given radios. Those that do not have 7/800 radios can use the National Interoperability Channels, which will overlay nearly the entire County. The Interop Channels will be monitored at the dispatch console and if necessary be patched together at the console for interop -> 7/800 interoperability.

5.Are their going to be an lowband, VHF or UHF cross band links to the 700/800 radio system for the agencies who do not decide or cannot afford to be on the new radio system?
- Currently, no cross band linking will be allowed to talk into the 7/800 system. Reference this post: http://forums.radioreference.com/ne...forum/327150-orange-county-radio-jamming.html

6. Is every police department going to get enough radios for every vehicle & every police officer?
- All police vehicles will be equipped with a mobile radio. As for portables, each department is different. Some will be getting a radio for each officer, some will be getting enough radios for each shift. This was a decision made by each individual department.

7. How many portable radios are going to be given to each fire department?
- one portable and one mobile for each vehicle.

8. Will every active member of every volunteer ambulance corps get a portable radio?
- Every agency is different, similar to the police question.

9. How many talk groups will each agency get?
- TBD

10. What model of portable radio will be the agencies get? Will it depend of the type of agency?
- All public safety agencies will be the APX6000 / APX6500

11. Will the current lowband & VHF radio systems remain in place as a backup in case the 700/800 goes down?
-No

If anyone has the answers to these questions, please post them. Thank you.

Hopefully all of your questions are answered above.

 

[SCPD]

333,

Thank you for answering my questions. I do have a few more if you do not mind answering them.

1. In Rockland County, the primary FD response channel "Fire 1", is cross linked to the UHF county fire paging frequency. This allows all of the responding firefighters to hear the responding units and the dispatchers, via their pagers, while they are responding to calls. This is a 1-way cross link from 700/800 to UHF. Will something similar be done in Orange County?

2. Will there be multiple response talk groups for fire and EMS units to communicate with dispatch, so everyone won't be on the same main channel, when there are multiple incidents going on around the County? Maybe Fire and EMS Battalion talk groups?

3. Are there any plans to have a way for the dispatchers to monitor the County assigned UHF Fire Ground channels?

4. Will be there any repeaters put up on the nationwide 700/800 interop frequencies and/or will these frequencies be monitored by 911?

5. Will there be additional talk groups for police, such as for major incidents, so there will be too much radio traffic on the main dispatch talk groups?

6. Will there be countywide SWAT/tactical talk groups for police?

7. Will there be MCI talk groups for EMS?

8. Will the hospitals within the county be part of this radio system? So, the EMS units can call in?

Thanks in advance for your answers!

 

[Comspec333]

333,

Thank you for answering my questions. I do have a few more if you do not mind answering them.

1. In Rockland County, the primary FD response channel "Fire 1", is cross linked to the UHF county fire paging frequency. This allows all of the responding firefighters to hear the responding units and the dispatchers, via their pagers, while they are responding to calls. This is a 1-way cross link from 700/800 to UHF. Will something similar be done in Orange County?

2. Will there be multiple response talk groups for fire and EMS units to communicate with dispatch, so everyone won't be on the same main channel, when there are multiple incidents going on around the County? Maybe Fire and EMS Battalion talk groups?

3. Are there any plans to have a way for the dispatchers to monitor the County assigned UHF Fire Ground channels?

4. Will be there any repeaters put up on the nationwide 700/800 interop frequencies and/or will these frequencies be monitored by 911?

5. Will there be additional talk groups for police, such as for major incidents, so there will be too much radio traffic on the main dispatch talk groups?

6. Will there be countywide SWAT/tactical talk groups for police?

7. Will there be MCI talk groups for EMS?

8. Will the hospitals within the county be part of this radio system? So, the EMS units can call in?

Thanks in advance for your answers!

To answer most of your questions, talk groups have not yet been decided. There is a conceptual idea, but a lot of it is still TBD. Talk groups will be mostly determined by the working groups of each discipline.

There has not been any discussion on cross linking the communications channel to the paging channel.

There is a conceptual plan to monitor UHF fire ground, similar to how Rockland does this. However, the topography and the size of Orange is considerably different than Rockland. Either way, it is only conceptual and would not be implemented until after the 7x system goes online.

Yes, there will be a full complement of Interoperability channels that will overlay the 7x system. This will include VHF, UHF 7 and 800MHz which will be monitored at the dispatch center.

Yes, radios will be placed in the hospital ER's.

 

[trauma74]

Anyone have any news on the OC 700/800 radio system? When will the system be up and running? When will the agencies start using it? Also, I have heard that there is some serious concern from the agencies that will be using this system in the future, that there may not be enough frequencies on the system, which can cause users to not be able to properly communication on the system.

 

[sc800]

I think personally, that is a very big concern. For example EMS is supposed to be getting repeated incident channels that will be monitored by OC911 and is supposed to be one incident per channel. However there is only 8 of them, and the units are still expected to switch back to the main channel to talk to dispatch

Additionally I don't understand how this system will fix anything. For example, a fire chief in Warwick or Greenwood Lake will still need to carry 3 radios. (VHF for local PD because they aren't switching, UHF for fireground and 700 for county). Doesn't that almost defeat the purpose

 

[FF153]

Why wouldn't the PDs switch? That defeats the purpose of a interoperable system if not everyone is on it.

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[trauma74]

There are several reasons why some agencies will not want to switch over to the new system. One reason is that some agencies want nothing to do with the County. You have PDs that have their own dispatch that also dispatch FD & EMS. These agencies have radio systems that already work well for themselves, so they see no need to switch over to a system that might not serve them as well as their current system. Even though the County is supposed to be giving out radios to agencies, there will be some costs involved to the local agencies. If this agency has the need to talk to the County or other units, they can always enable a patch via their radio console etc.

 

[sc800]

Yes, those are the reasons that I know some agencies are deciding not to switch because of.

I'm not sure if the console patch will work. I know the new system won't allow crossband links

 

[trauma74]

Also, when it comes to operating on fire scenes, the Incident Commander is going to need to have more than one radio. County Fire Ground frequencies are going to remain non-repeated UHF analog. So the IC is going to have to have 1 radio set to talk to Fire Control and another radio set to Fire Ground. Even if the IC has a multi-band APX7000 or APX8000 portable radio, scanning between UHF Fire Ground and the 700/800 TRS could cause the IC to miss an urgent Fire Ground transmission or a transmission from Fire Control. In addition, paging is still going to be on VHF, so in all reality, Chiefs & other fire officers are still going to need 3 radios. Instead of having a lowband radio, a VHF radio & a UHF radio, they will have a 700/800 TRS radio, a VHF radio and a UHF radio.

 

[PJH]

As much as I advocate not a strong force thenhand way of doing things - IC - along with other NY counties (and several others in the nation) just needs to say: we are using this, and that's it.

There is NOTHING wrong with having an operations channel and a fireground. The wholenworld doesn't need to be on ancountywide or dispatch channel. Not everyone needs to be on a dispatch monitored channel and not everyone needs to listened to by a dispatcher.

There are pratical limits.

Being that this is a county based fire system and all the fire and EMS agencies still do their ownnthing in many respects- you need a certain one size fits all solution. If the fire service wants all sorts of"extras" than there needs to be a paid fire crew or a master agreement / SOP with consequences for violations.

You can't have it both ways.

Mongomery County, PG county down in Maryland is an excellent example on how paid and volunteer departments play the same way for radios and incident responses.

Another county I worked at in California (99% career) worked off of a very nice - conventional system. Responses worked off of one "battalion" monitored channel for response and dispatcher critical information and one simplex fireground channel.

This county is larger and more diverse than OC and most other (if not all) other
Counties in NY and worked just fine.

It's not the technology- it's the culture.

 

[trauma74]

sc8,

The County originally said that they were going to allow some crossband links, then they changed their minds for some reason. The agencies who are not going to switch to the new system should be putting pressure on the County to allow some crossband links to be set up. If the County is not going to allow crossband links, then they are going to have to do something to keep communications with those agencies. I have said from the beginning that the County should keep the current lowband system up and running as a backup system, in case the TRS goes down for some reason. Maybe they will keep the main dispatch channel up and running for the agencies not participating in the TRS.
How many agencies do you know of that are not going to move to the new system?

 

[PJH]

You can do it. If the system designers allow it or not due to limited resouces that's another matter. We have this in place for a city fire to talk to certain county resouces.

It was a bigger matter on the older 6.x systems. Even on that one we could patch everyone in for certain incidents. Back in the day we had it setup between a state LB, regional UHF and 8TAC94. Worked very well.

ACU's work well.

In a temp solution we had two talk groups and a conventional channel patched between two trunked systems and was seemless.

Yes, those are the reasons that I know some agencies are deciding not to switch because of.

I'm not sure if the console patch will work. I know the new system won't allow crossband links

 

[cackis]

Looking at the fire side, not seeing any reason why officers in a FD would need 3 radios. Since fireground ops will remain on UHF, the only person on the scene who would need a 7/800 radio would be the IC on almost all situations unless it was a large scale incident where additional chief officers may need a 7/800 radio. A lot of chiefs already carry two radios at an incident, they just both happen to be UHF at the moment. One dedicated to fireground and one for incoming units and OC 911. This would remain the same with the new system just one being UHF and a 7/800 that can actually talk directly to OC 911 and incoming units without a link. The county will be issuing APX6000's to agencies. If someone wants to spend the money for 8000's and tries to switch back and forth between the trunked system and fireground channels that's on them but it's not going to work well and I'm sure it will be the new radio systems fault, not the poor choice of the end user. As far as VHF that's what your pager is for. These is a ton of misinformation out there and the majority of critics either have bad info, don't want to hear about change, or are afraid to give up control of their own little kingdom.