Oregon Says No to $665 Million Radio System

[kwrxxx]

Public safety - Leaders scrap the plan as too costly but favor a new statewide system

Wednesday, May 09, 2007 BETSY HAMMOND

Gov. Ted Kulongoski's plan to spend $665 million for a statewide public safety radio network was killed Tuesday by a price tag that was too high and unanswered questions about how the system would be built and why it should cost so much.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1178686503247680.xml&coll=7

 

[oritpro]

Public safety - Leaders scrap the plan as too costly but favor a new statewide system

Wednesday, May 09, 2007 BETSY HAMMOND

Gov. Ted Kulongoski's plan to spend $665 million for a statewide public safety radio network was killed Tuesday by a price tag that was too high and unanswered questions about how the system would be built and why it should cost so much.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1178686503247680.xml&coll=7

Hmmmm..... I wonder what type of system they were considering, anybody know? There is no doubt that Oregon would benefit from a statewide radio network but I dread the day that they roll out an encrypted system.

 

[amusement]

I believe this was a Motorola digital system.

 

[mikepdx]

Something less than almost $ 2/3 of a BILLION could possibly put
VHF-Hi, UHF and 800 MHz transceivers (all three)
in each and every PD and Fire/EMS unit in the state.

(Personally, I believe $665M would have just been the
beginning of a money pit).

Perhaps, simply use manually activated patches between
incompatible systems only as needed.

Well, you probably couldn't stand in Ontario, key up a portable
and chat with another portable in Astoria.
(When would a dog and pony show like that ever be needed).

And, it might not be a bright and shiny expensive new toy with all
the bells and whistles, but...

would not the above or similar alternative solutions meet the definition of interoperability?

I'm certain Motorola wouldn't agree...

 

[DickH]

...
Perhaps, simply use manually activated patches between
incompatible systems only as needed.

would not the above or similar alternative solutions meet the definition of interoperability?

I'm certain Motorola wouldn't agree...

The state has a large communications van with all sorts of patching capability for just that purpose. Perhaps their right hand should find out what their left hand is doing.

Oh, that truck has a very sophisticated name, "Big Red Truck" or something like that. After hearing the name, my brain decided that info. was not worth retaining.

Four or five such vehicles placed strategically around the state might cost a bit less than $665 million. But, such a simple solution? - Never.

 

[oritpro]

Something less than almost $ 2/3 of a BILLION could possibly put
VHF-Hi, UHF and 800 MHz transceivers (all three)
in each and every PD and Fire/EMS unit in the state.

(Personally, I believe $665M would have just been the
beginning of a money pit).

Perhaps, simply use manually activated patches between
incompatible systems only as needed.

Well, you probably couldn't stand in Ontario, key up a portable
and chat with another portable in Astoria.
(When would a dog and pony show like that ever be needed).

And, it might not be a bright and shiny expensive new toy with all
the bells and whistles, but...

would not the above or similar alternative solutions meet the definition of interoperability?

I'm certain Motorola wouldn't agree...

Well, most Oregonians are aware of the OHSU Tram fiasco and like most state projects, the radio system upgrade would have undoubtedly ballooned well beyond the bid price.

Unfortunately, Homeland Security initiatives seem to dictate that future public safety communication systems will be encrypted and that really bites for those of us that like to listen in.

 

[N_Jay]

Hmmmm..... I wonder what type of system they were considering, anybody know? There is no doubt that Oregon would benefit from a statewide radio network but I dread the day that they roll out an encrypted system.

Maybe a Google will turn up some good information?


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=oregon+statewide+public+safety+radio

 

[N_Jay]

I believe this was a Motorola digital system.

Nothing I find points that way?

 

[N_Jay]

. . . .
Perhaps, simply use manually activated patches between
incompatible systems only as needed.
. . . . .
.. ...

The state has a large communications van with all sorts of patching capability for just that purpose. Perhaps their right hand should find out what their left hand is doing.

Oh, that truck has a very sophisticated name, "Big Red Truck" or something like that. After hearing the name, my brain decided that info. was not worth retaining.

Four or five such vehicles placed strategically around the state might cost a bit less than $665 million. But, such a simple solution? - Never.

Either of you read up on the system before proclaiming your "solutions"?

 

[N_Jay]

Well, most Oregonians are aware of the OHSU Tram fiasco

Seems that the tram is a City project, not a State Project?:roll:

. . . . and like most state projects, the radio system upgrade would have undoubtedly ballooned well beyond the bid price.

Has the radio system been bid yet? :roll:

Unfortunately, Homeland Security initiatives seem to dictate that future public safety communication systems will be encrypted and that really bites for those of us that like to listen in.

Really? Where did you find that little tidbit?:roll: :roll:

 

[oritpro]

Seems that the tram is a City project, not a State Project?:roll:

I stand corrected, the tram was a city project but it doesn't matter since both state and city projects tend to go over budget around here.

Has the radio system been bid yet? :roll:

Huh? :roll:

Really? Where did you find that little tidbit?:roll: :roll:

Maybe google will provide some information?
http://www.google.com/search?q=site...avclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS219US220


It stands to reason that all public safety communications should be encrypted for obvious reasons. Agree or disagree?

 

[oritpro]

Seems that the tram is a City project, not a State Project?:roll:

I stand corrected, the tram was a City project but it doesn't matter since both state and city projects tend to go over budget around here.

Has the radio system been bid yet? :roll:

Huh? :roll:

Really? Where did you find that little tidbit?:roll: :roll:

Maybe google will provide some information?
"http://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.dhs.gov+Homeland+Security+encrypted+communications&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS219US220"

It stands to reason that all public safety communications should be encrypted for obvious reasons. Agree or disagree?


Edit:

Sorry about the double post, the forum did not like the URL and truncated it. Anyway, just do a site search on dhs.org for "encrypted communications" , there are plenty of references to the encryption of federal as well as public and private sector communications.

 

[N_Jay]

. . . Maybe google will provide some information?
http://www.google.com/search?q=site...avclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS219US220

That is an information network (computers) not a radio network.

It stands to reason that all public safety communications should be encrypted for obvious reasons. Agree or disagree?

Edit:

Sorry about the double post, the forum did not like the URL and truncated it. Anyway, just do a site search on dhs.org for "encrypted communications" , there are plenty of references to the encryption of federal as well as public and private sector communications.

EDIT: You said "Dictated".

 

[icom1020]

I suspect a half billion for a radio system when the state has been behind in hiring additional troopers for years along with an underfunded education system did not go over well with the politicians.

 

[oregontreehugger]

Good point... having lots of new radios does no good if there aren't folks to use them.

 

[amusement]

Watch as I hi jack this thread:

Over budget state projects...DMV computer systems hundreds of millions..doesn't work and
former DMV director left job to work at computer company

Over budget Oregon higher education communication system linking campuses. Guess they don't like voice over IP.

Data recover and management center in central oregon. Unused!

Salem IT Office...built for lease paid for by State with cost over runs that would
make an Auditor blush.

PG&E Trojan plant...helped built with Oregon bonds, Federal money. It went dead after GE's coolant system failed. Was too costly to repair. Cooling tower made a nice boom.

State highway 217...paved in 2001 and then repaved in 2003 and 4. Original contractor made the mix wrong and put it down to light. Where was Department Of Transportation?
It cost enough to repave it concrete.

Billions scheduled for new bridges in Oregon. Find out most of the old bridges were tough to blow up. Why? They had steel reinforcement within the cement. Ooops! Someone forgot to check the blue prints.

Moving on ... to Portland area:

Portland Metro Light rail...hundreds of millions of dollars...no possible return on investment.

OHSU tram...as previously stated

Multnomah County Jail built but couldn't operate it because lack of funding

The dig under willamette to link up sewer systems...argh!

Do we really need another cost over run project? Probably not.

NJay motorolla was bidding on Yamhill county's emergency communication system. Yamhill
took a pass. Yeah!

 

[amusement]

That is an information network (computers) not a radio network.

Cisco is in the business of providing voice over IP for radio systems. This means there's not voice channels. It's all data. Motorolla is pushing this technology with their new systems.

Homeland Security Likes the part of encrypting both voice and data within one stream using
one AES-256 bit key. Good luck breaking that.

 

[N_Jay]

Cisco is in the business of providing voice over IP for radio systems. This means there's not voice channels. It's all data. Motorolla is pushing this technology with their new systems.

Homeland Security Likes the part of encrypting both voice and data within one stream using
one AES-256 bit key. Good luck breaking that.

You are still wrong in implying:
Unfortunately, Homeland Security initiatives seem to dictate that future public safety communication systems will be encrypted and that really bites for those of us that like to listen in.

By the way, the IP and VoIP parts of P25 radio systems are all in the backhaul, not over the air.

 

[mh34444]

Portland Metro Light rail...hundreds of millions of dollars...no possible return on investment.

From what I understand, using the money slated years ago to build the Mt.Hood freeway, an interstate to connect Central Oregon to the metro area. Now anyone in Multnomah county can commute easily, and anyone that lives out of the county gets to deal with east Hwy 26. Intended to allow Portland to expand, instead, empty nesters and no-kid Californians are taking over, school sizes are shrinking. 1/2 of the Portland schools barely qualify to compete in 4A sports, the rest qualify as 3A, but with a creative exception the state made, they still get to compete at the new 5A level. Are you kidding me?

Multnomah County Jail built but couldn't operate it because lack of funding

That was a nice little screw the tax-payer tactic. The county knew they didn't have the funding to staff it, but still convinced the public it was ready to go, if it was approved.

 

[KE7JFF]

Wow you guys are pretty bitter about things

The light rail is great for us west side people but I will stop short of there.

Now, I get confused about what this plan actually is...I'll have to take a look at it.