Orlando Digital

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Patch42

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Is there anybody here who's been monitoring the Orlando move to the new P25 system? I've been listening to what they've moved or are simulcasting. Some of it sounds as though it might be encrypted, but with other transmissions it sounds like badly encoded digital.

Just a few minutes ago I heard a transmission that shifted back and forth between legible and something that sounded like one of the more exotic alien species on Star Trek.

I'm not actually in Orlando proper, but I'm less than five miles outside the city limits, not more than 12 miles from downtown.

Given the very poor reception I'm getting this close, I have to wonder if this system is really ready to go live. I guess I'm curious if anyone else is hearing what I'm hearing.

I should add that I get perfect reception of the current analog system.
 
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n2hbx

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Orlando Digital System

The audio issues are caused by the analog and digital systems being patched together until the digital migration is complete.

Traffic going through the digital system first then through the patch to analog sounds better than the other way around. This will clear up as the consoles and other equipment is moved to digital.

73,
Larry, N2HBX
 

Patch42

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I've been paying a bit more attention to the radio and have noticed the S-meter fluctuating wildly on digital transmissions. On the analog system my S-meter always goes full scale. With the digital I'm seeing rapid fluctuations between maybe 2 and 4 bars lit. I never see it go full scale and stay there. I suspect this rapid oscillation is what's causing most of the audio dropouts and beep-boop stuff I'm hearing. is this kind of thing caused by patching the systems together?
 

WX4JCW

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I have a 996 and am east of the primary tower at OPD HQ and i am having the same issue
i live no more than 2 miles from the tower
 

dlbeaver

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Orlando Police Department announced that they have now went Encrypted Digital which means total silence under some Sunshine State Law backed by our buddy Jeb Busch I guess they claim it is safer for there officers not to have people like ourselves adding eyes and ears to the streets of the already crime stricken city of Orlando! Like they already didn't have access to totally encrypted channels already? Well, another blow to the tax payers out there.

William
 

gcr33

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The Sunshine Law has nothing to do with you being able to listen to a scanner. Perhaps if incidents like the one with the Palm Beach Gardens former fire Lt. pulling over cars with a scanner and other "police" equipment there might not be a problem.
 

WX4JCW

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There is Nothing in the Sunshine law that would help out the scanner listener in relation with OPD, the only way i see is for scanner listeners to contact their city councilperson and express their disapproval,

There is really alot more going on with this than meets the eye, a compromise is trying to be worked out, so even as angry as i am about it, i am thinking we do need to apply pressure politically but respective pressure no matter how we feel about the issue.

I see alot of talk on both threads of people upset that OPD Encrypted, however when it comes time to put up or shut up no one shows up, so in reallity we have no one to blame but ourselves.
 

n2hbx

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Radio Encryption

dlbeaver said:
Orlando Police Department announced that they have now went Encrypted Digital which means total silence under some Sunshine State Law backed by our buddy Jeb Busch I guess they claim it is safer for there officers not to have people like ourselves adding eyes and ears to the streets of the already crime stricken city of Orlando! Like they already didn't have access to totally encrypted channels already? Well, another blow to the tax payers out there.

William
Sometimes it amazes me at the rights people think they have that they really don't.

At the risk of starting a huge flame war, let me say that the "extra eyes and ears" arguement is totally bogus. How many people have actually ever heard something on the scanner and then reported useful information to LEO? One could stretch that logic to say that they should issue the public radios so that we can call them directly.

I personally don't have a problem with the PD using encrypted communications. I don't need to know all the details of everything that happens in the city, and, frankly, there are some things I don't have the right to know.

Amazingly, the biggest problem the PD has is from the media. There have been cases in Orlando where the media, monitoring the PD talkgroups, showed up on the scene of an impending bust before the PD, thus totally screwing the operation.

IMHO, if you're that upset about not being able to listen to the PD and know where they are and what they're doing at any particular moment, you're either doing something you're not supposed to, or you spend lots of time looking out for the "black helicopters". Yeah, I know that's a real broad brush.

Incidentally, there wasn't this much furor over the City of Winter Park going encrypted about a year ago.

Larry
 

dlbeaver

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n2hbx said:
Sometimes it amazes me at the rights people think they have that they really don't.

At the risk of starting a huge flame war, let me say that the "extra eyes and ears" arguement is totally bogus. How many people have actually ever heard something on the scanner and then reported useful information to LEO? One could stretch that logic to say that they should issue the public radios so that we can call them directly.

I personally don't have a problem with the PD using encrypted communications. I don't need to know all the details of everything that happens in the city, and, frankly, there are some things I don't have the right to know.

Amazingly, the biggest problem the PD has is from the media. There have been cases in Orlando where the media, monitoring the PD talkgroups, showed up on the scene of an impending bust before the PD, thus totally screwing the operation.

IMHO, if you're that upset about not being able to listen to the PD and know where they are and what they're doing at any particular moment, you're either doing something you're not supposed to, or you spend lots of time looking out for the "black helicopters". Yeah, I know that's a real broad brush.

Incidentally, there wasn't this much furor over the City of Winter Park going encrypted about a year ago.

Larry
I have to disagree with you totally! I can vouch myself for an inncedent that just happened recently in Lake County and if it wasn't for me being a Ham radio buff I hate to think of the outcome of the situation that was at hand, it was about 6 weeks ago, two people decided to go up a canal kiaking (spell?) and they only had there cell phone and I heard Eagle One (LCSO Heli) give there cordinance (GPS) and I wrote it down and looked it up on a map, their battery was going dead on there phone and they couldn't make it back the 14 some miles back up stream to the lake that they started from and it was now dark!, it was 42 degrees that night with a much colder wind chill!, I called using a real time satellite imagery that most dispatchers dont have time or resources to access and the officers that walked through all the prickers and brush to get to them had a dead radio by the time he got there and request to be extracted via winch from the heli, well with all the over brush that was not possible at all. the dispatcher called them on the radio telling them who I was and that I had information pertaining to that exact area using a satellite and looking at 4 wheeler trails that lead from the opposite direction which could not be seen at night with conventional spot light or FLIR, to make a long story short I directed them out at 3:00AM which started at 7:30pm EST. and the officer said on the radio to make sure you remind me to thank that Ham radio operator for his assistance. So you cannot tell me extra eyes and ears don't help, I am testimony to beg to differ with you unless your intent is simple to yell fire whenever you feel fit and not use those frequencies with the utmost of respect, I can transmit on those radios if I really wanted to but I DO NOT! I have enough radio resources that I can talk on most frequencies used today with the equipment I have at my disposal. I could also go into account another incident that happended that saved the Hams life because of having been listening to the police at the time a wanted felon armed was running through his back yard and he heard it and locked his doors, that may have been a very bad out come had him not being able to listen to the police activity at hand. So if you want to preach it is wrong for us to listen and ok for them to go completely silent than your fricken nuts! It is only in the publics best interest and like I said before they have always had encrypted channels since the 90's that they can use for technical task or drug bust or whatecer they basically think we don't need to hear! why us tax payers have to pay for more bulls*&# equipment that they really don't need, plus they use there Nextels so they have all the privacy already at there disposal. Only person I can think of that would apose any of this would be a single shallow minded police officer. maybe the next sex offender that breaks out of jail will be running accross your back yard only to gain entry to your house because you thought they have that right to privacy because its a police manner? WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, you are SOOooo WRONG!!!! Just remeber Karma it might just byte you in your Arse so be careful what you wish for unless you can be a little bit more braud minded and maybe talk to some people about there benifits to being able to listen to emergencies, who knows might save your life some day. As for the media they need to make simple regulations that restrict there interferrence and distance rather than damn others that can see the good out of the news, besides who in the right mind listens to the news channels and all there B.S.? anyone in the right mind knows that the media is based only on 10% truth. even the weather man can't get lucky....
 

dlbeaver

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n2hbx said:
Sometimes it amazes me at the rights people think they have that they really don't.

At the risk of starting a huge flame war, let me say that the "extra eyes and ears" arguement is totally bogus. How many people have actually ever heard something on the scanner and then reported useful information to LEO? One could stretch that logic to say that they should issue the public radios so that we can call them directly.

I personally don't have a problem with the PD using encrypted communications. I don't need to know all the details of everything that happens in the city, and, frankly, there are some things I don't have the right to know.

Amazingly, the biggest problem the PD has is from the media. There have been cases in Orlando where the media, monitoring the PD talkgroups, showed up on the scene of an impending bust before the PD, thus totally screwing the operation.

IMHO, if you're that upset about not being able to listen to the PD and know where they are and what they're doing at any particular moment, you're either doing something you're not supposed to, or you spend lots of time looking out for the "black helicopters". Yeah, I know that's a real broad brush.

Incidentally, there wasn't this much furor over the City of Winter Park going encrypted about a year ago.

Larry
Oh, almost forgot to mention I live in Lake County and don't even listen to OPD or even the OCSO. Mostly LCSO. and surrounding local areas! I just believe in ones rights and freedom at hand and DO NOT believe that total encryption is in the best interest of the public and there rights, so why are you trying your best to get a flame war started if you tend to preach thats exactly what you don't want to start? You need to understand that there are probably more people that will disagree with you rather than agree! So why even bother unless indeed a flame war is actually what you really are trying to start? I honestly believe an opinion is a simple statement of ones values even if you don't agree with it, thats why we live in a wonderful Democratic and Republican, and Right wing unbiased society.
 

WX4JCW

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n2hbx said:
Sometimes it amazes me at the rights people think they have that they really don't.

At the risk of starting a huge flame war, let me say that the "extra eyes and ears" arguement is totally bogus. How many people have actually ever heard something on the scanner and then reported useful information to LEO? One could stretch that logic to say that they should issue the public radios so that we can call them directly.

I personally don't have a problem with the PD using encrypted communications. I don't need to know all the details of everything that happens in the city, and, frankly, there are some things I don't have the right to know.

Amazingly, the biggest problem the PD has is from the media. There have been cases in Orlando where the media, monitoring the PD talkgroups, showed up on the scene of an impending bust before the PD, thus totally screwing the operation.

IMHO, if you're that upset about not being able to listen to the PD and know where they are and what they're doing at any particular moment, you're either doing something you're not supposed to, or you spend lots of time looking out for the "black helicopters". Yeah, I know that's a real broad brush.

Incidentally, there wasn't this much furor over the City of Winter Park going encrypted about a year ago.

Larry
Oh Larry, Before we start a flame war here, lets examine Your History, I have it on good authority that YOU are a service tech for the Motorola Dealer that installed this Monstrosity of a radio system, Did Jerry Schulist your boss send you here to quash the anti encryption argument,
it is kinda funny how you try to shoot down the argument with black helicopters when you have absolutely nothing to lose, Hope the XTS5000 you have in your trailer works well.


FYI Winter Park went over 3 years ago and being such a small department, that the switch was done without fanfare, and frankly no one cares about winter park was the reason.

The reason i bring this up is that if we are going to try to muddy the discussion why not be honest to the people as to why You are in here trying to call us freaks, or is honesty out of the question? or am i incorrect.

It is not a matter of whether we have a right to listen or not, I am sure that will eventually be settled in court at some time, as a US Citizen who has served my country in the military and in Public safety, my feeling on this is that as a citizen we have a RESPONSIBILITY to challenge our Government in a legal debate and through the court system if neccessary if we feel something is not correct.

The Major reason that stuff like this happens is that the general public is #1 Apathetic, #2. Uneducated, #3. Really don't care #4. Afraid

So as a Responsible Citizen I am excercising my right to Disagree and Challenge something that i feel is Unneccessary, Unwarranted, Irresponsibly Sold, Potentially Dangerous, and Contrary to good community relations
 
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RIPPED407

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Stormchaser_35 said:
Oh Larry, Before we start a flame war here, lets examine Your History, I have it on good authority that YOU are a service tech for the Motorola Dealer that installed this Monstrosity of a radio system, Did Jerry Schulist your boss send you here to quash the anti encryption argument,
it is kinda funny how you try to shoot down the argument with black helicopters when you have absolutely nothing to lose, Hope the XTS5000 you have in your trailer works well.


FYI Winter Park went over 3 years ago and being such a small department, that the switch was done without fanfare, and frankly no one cares about winter park was the reason.

The reason i bring this up is that if we are going to try to muddy the discussion why not be honest to the people as to why You are in here trying to call us freaks, or is honesty out of the question? or am i incorrect.

It is not a matter of whether we have a right to listen or not, I am sure that will eventually be settled in court at some time, as a US Citizen who has served my country in the military and in Public safety, my feeling on this is that as a citizen we have a RESPONSIBILITY to challenge our Government in a legal debate and through the court system if neccessary if we feel something is not correct.

The Major reason that stuff like this happens is that the general public is #1 Apathetic, #2. Uneducated, #3. Really don't care #4. Afraid

So as a Responsible Citizen I am excercising my right to Disagree and Challenge something that i feel is Unneccessary, Unwarranted, Irresponsibly Sold, Potentially Dangerous, and Contrary to good community relations
+1.000.000
 

gcr33

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Some of you are still believing you have the right to do what ever you want. Not true, your argument that you can help only if you can listen is beyond belief. 99.99 per cent or even higher of people who call for law enforcement when they see something don't have a scanner.
Because you cannot hear them does that mean you will not call for a public safety unit to come to someone's aid? In other threads commentors have argued that they need to control the police and they can do that by listening to their scanner. What do they think is going on?

Some of the posts about in progress calls certainly would make a chief think about the safety of the people in his organization. Showing up at scenes on a regular basis surely did not help.
 

dlbeaver

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gcr33 said:
Some of you are still believing you have the right to do what ever you want. Not true, your argument that you can help only if you can listen is beyond belief. 99.99 per cent or even higher of people who call for law enforcement when they see something don't have a scanner.
Because you cannot hear them does that mean you will not call for a public safety unit to come to someone's aid? In other threads commentors have argued that they need to control the police and they can do that by listening to their scanner. What do they think is going on?

Some of the posts about in progress calls certainly would make a chief think about the safety of the people in his organization. Showing up at scenes on a regular basis surely did not help.
Lets just hope it's not your family and or kids on the road that you just happened to be listening to a drunk driver (signal 2) that is swirving all over and on the same highway your family just might happen to be on!, I for one value my family and kids and find it my right to have a forwarning of any dangerous hazards that maybe ahead on the road. does that make it wrong because the guy with the scanner had good sense to get off of the road or take an alternative route because of a danger that might arrise from the situation had I not had a scanner? maybe the guy (with the scanner) will flag your family down and give you a heads up saving you and your family next time, but then again I believe in Karma and those that appose this issue like yourself will be one of the un-lucky drivers that happens to get hit head on from a drunk driver because he was delirious to the situation at hand and didn't really care about knowledge being power, so sad.
 

gcr33

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dlbeaver said:
Lets just hope it's not your family and or kids on the road that you just happened to be listening to a drunk driver (signal 2) that is swirving all over and on the same highway your family just might happen to be on!, I for one value my family and kids and find it my right to have a forwarning of any dangerous hazards that maybe ahead on the road. does that make it wrong because the guy with the scanner had good sense to get off of the road or take an alternative route because of a danger that might arrise from the situation had I not had a scanner? maybe the guy (with the scanner) will flag your family down and give you a heads up saving you and your family next time, but then again I believe in Karma and those that appose this issue like yourself will be one of the un-lucky drivers that happens to get hit head on from a drunk driver because he was delirious to the situation at hand and didn't really care about knowledge being power, so sad.
You are kidding right? Do you think having a scanner is going to protect you from the evils of the world? If you have that attitude then perhaps you need to find a concete bunker somewhere and get in it. I think perhaps instead of glancing down to your scanner to see who is talking you would focus on driving. Stop this foolish scanners will safe my life attitude and get in that bunker. Less harm will come to you there. Perhaps listening to your scanner might get you hurt. Showing up where you know the local action is????
 

dlbeaver

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gcr33 said:
You are kidding right? Do you think having a scanner is going to protect you from the evils of the world? If you have that attitude then perhaps you need to find a concete bunker somewhere and get in it. I think perhaps instead of glancing down to your scanner to see who is talking you would focus on driving. Stop this foolish scanners will safe my life attitude and get in that bunker. Less harm will come to you there. Perhaps listening to your scanner might get you hurt. Showing up where you know the local action is????
Ya Right, I guess listening to a scanner for you might take more dextarity! but incase you haven't noticed dude they make radio's in automobiles since the beggining of the auto! no more dangerous listening to the local traffic report backup on the FM car radio than a scanner? maybe for you it might be a safety issue! I'm sure those cell phones are much more dangerous! and maybe that would be a battle you should be batteling? Where do people like you come from? honestly! I have been a Ham radio operator for 29 years and have NEVER drove to a crime scene that I might hear on the scanner! Geeesh! where do people like you come from? maybe your thinking about what your actions might be, but honestly my friend I think the issue goes more personal with you and I will just leave it at that because I have much better things to do than feed the flames of ignorance when I see it.
Good Day my friend and watch out for the purple elephants, they might squash your car with you in it, god only knows what your mind might create for your next post thats why I was warning you because you seem very dangerous! and I refuse to reply to someone that has nothing better to do but flame a useless and sensless subject that you know you have know grounds at all of being correct on. but I sure bet that just ticks you off don't it?
And I thought I was an exagerator. (heading for the bunkers) FREAKY!
 

dlbeaver

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Wasted Tax Dollars in Florida!

The State of Florida has changed their radio system to were you cannot monitor them! That is wrong and it deserves lawsuits against Tyco Electronics Corporation and the State of Florida. The Statewide Law Enforcement Radio System (SLERS) change was completed in the Central Florida area in May of 2006.

If citizens cannot listen to them, citizens cannot support them!

Avoid moving or traveling to Florida! Good advice from a Floridian that has lived in Florida for over 20 years who now wants out because Florida is changing for the worst.

Under former Governor Jeb Bush's (R-FL) administration, a bad and costly decision was made to replace Florida's digital Motorola Astro 800-MHz system open code partial-encryption with a digital Tyco M/A-COM EDACS ProVoice 800-MHz system that uses proprietary code and full-time encryption.

That means you cannot listen to the busiest state users of radio, such as the Florida Highway Patrol (FHP), the Department of Transportation Motor Carrier Compliance (DOT), the Fish and Wildlife Conservation (includes Marine Patrol), the University of Central Florida police, the Florida National Guard, etc. In addition, federal, county, or city government agencies can use the Statewide Law Enforcement Radio System as third-party subscribers because Tyco Electronics Corporation will sale to any qualified government agency; Sheriff's Department, Police Department, Fire Department, EMS, Public Works, etc.

This new radio system, funded by taxpayers, was not needed. Long before this new radio system the FHP had a UHF/VHF radio system, when you pushed the button on the microphone and called dispatch they always heard the officer and there was a car to car frequency with a repeater and a switch to go direct around the repeater. They had interoperability via the regional channels to contact neighboring police departments and could monitor them, and vice versa, by enabling the scan feature on the radio. They had Motorola Secure Voice encryption for privacy whenever it was needed, but 95% of the time it was not needed so they operated in the clear mode. It was much simpler back then, and it worked everywhere, all the time!

Former Governor Jeb Bush thinks the new SLERS he wanted is great and bragged about it being totally encrypted using the fear tactic of terrorism to justify the unjust. He wants every state in the US to have the same secret police communications to build a police state. He also boasted how the crime rate in Florida has gone down when the truth is the crime rate in Florida is skyrocketing and how the economy is doing great when it is getting worse for most people now barely surviving from paycheck to paycheck.
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q=Bush+Orwellian
Jeb Bush is planning to be Vice President of the USA then President of the USA. That could give him 16 years of top Executive power.

Maybe the next Governor will do the right thing by providing a method of openness so citizens can monitor their public-safety services in realtime. That would not be difficult to do if it is simulcast in the open, like NASA does with human spaceflights.
 

gcr33

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How do you judge what is wasteful based on the use of encryption?

It's time to grow up and realize that you do not have the right to listen to your police or fire agency on a scanner.

Your arguments a facious at best. Perhaps you might want to take a breath and realize what you are saying.

You want to sue Tyco for leasing the State of Florida a trunked radio system using digital and encryption? Feel free. March down to your local county courthouse and file the suit. I believe that the jurisdiction would be in Leon Co. (Tallahassee). Let the rest of us know how you make out.

Either you have had contact with some law enforcement agency in an enforcement way or have a conspiracy theory that needs help. A police state because of encryption? Where were you when the Federal agencies encrypted 20+ years ago? Have the black helicopters been hovering over your residence lately? Is the local S.W.A.T/E.R.T. team standing out in front waiting to pounce?
 
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WX4JCW

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GCR i have a great deal of respect, I understand your point of view, I understand ripped and dlbeavers point of view.

However the conspiracy theory argument doesn't really cut it, the governor cannot really do anything as the funds are being provided by homeland security.

The Main issue here is not if scanner listeners have the right to listen, they do not currently, however it is more of an issue as to whether scanner listeners should even fight for the ability to listen.

however the scanner community is divided, much like the amateur radio community.
so it may not be an issue that we shouldn't challenge legally, but more so a matter of will,
most people nowadays are apathetic, they do not vote and go with the flow, kinda like sheep. so as a result here we are.

But I have no hate OPD Agenda nor do i dream of conspiracies
 
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