P25 Low Band?

[mmckenna]

How much juice does it put out on low band? I have several amps that are wideband 30-520MHz but they measure the incoming frequency and select a -70dBc low pass filter. These amps take in roughly 1 to 5 watts and put out between 18 and 40w depending on model and operating voltage.

I think it's 9mw, like the Unity. The XL-200M manual is a bit vague, only saying it uses "Unity" low band amplifier, which puts out 30 or 100 watts.
I'm supposed to meet with Harris tomorrow, I'll see if they have someone there that knows.

FCC Equipment Grant only shows the 100 watt output with the amp.

 

[mmckenna]

Almost there:

Comtronix Communications LBR-110 Products – Comtronix Communications

I talked to the owner and his son for a while today at IWCE. The owner used to work for Midland, and essentially bought the rights to the product line when Midland got out of the LMR business. He still does repairs of the CHP equipment for the State of California.

They had sitting on their table at 110 watt low band repeater as well as a low band base station.
Under the hood, they were Kenwood NX-5600H low band decks with modifications and a new control head. Owner said Kenwood approached him asking if they'd produce the repeater since Kenwood didn't see a big enough market for them to do it themselves.
The repeater -will- do analog or NXDN, and they have tested NXDN low band with the CHP. CHP was happy with it and the testing showed clear audio right out to the fringes (then nothing). Like most digital, if you are operating in analog and open the squelch all the way, crank up the volume, you might make out a word or two after digital craps out, but that's really stretching it…..

Anyway, these look to be the direction CHP may go. The manufacturer is working with them. Right now, NXDN/Analog are the only options.
They are aware that federal grant funding requires P25. They say it's just a firmware change to enable P25 on these radios/repeaters. Add AES256 + P25 and CHP has their wide area coverage (including options like CRIS, etc…)

 

[mmckenna]

Two Kenwood NX-5600H decks with a lot of modifications.

 

[mmckenna]

Note: While that -does- look like the CHP logo, it's been carefully sanitized to remove any mention of California, but you get the idea:

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Nice Package,,, She said...

 

[DeoVindice]

That is awesome.

Is an NX-1600 too much to hope for as a 6110 replacement?

 

[mmckenna]

That is awesome.

Is an NX-1600 too much to hope for as a 6110 replacement?

I don't know. Low band portables sort of suck due to the lack of counterpoise under the antenna. That was one of the reasons the CHP used VHF portables linked to a mobile repeater that tied into the low band radio.

I haven't seen anything that would suggest Kenwood was interested in diving back into the low band market again. The NX-5600H decision was based -solely- on the CHP purchase.

 

[DeoVindice]

I don't know. Low band portables sort of suck due to the lack of counterpoise under the antenna. That was one of the reasons the CHP used VHF portables linked to a mobile repeater that tied into the low band radio.

I haven't seen anything that would suggest Kenwood was interested in diving back into the low band market again. The NX-5600H decision was based -solely- on the CHP purchase.

The 6110 is/was a 70W mobile.

I've experienced firsthand the shortcomings of low band portables. They work, but not nearly as well as you'd hope.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

The 6110 is/was a 70W mobile.

I've experienced firsthand the shortcomings of low band portables. They work, but not nearly as well as you'd hope.

Yeah we did some experiments here in FL and the range was such that you had to throw the radio and get the attention of the recipient. Site noise and poor antenna efficiency are your enemy. You need a proper antenna.

 

[mmckenna]

The 6110 is/was a 70W mobile.

I've experienced firsthand the shortcomings of low band portables. They work, but not nearly as well as you'd hope.

Good point, I'd been talking with someone about NX-1300's and had portable on the brain.

I haven't seen anything to suggest Kenwood wants to get back into that market. Seems like buying up used TK-6110's or TK-690's would be a good move if low band was tickling your fancy.

 

[DeoVindice]

Yeah we did some experiments here in FL and the range was such that you had to throw the radio and get the attention of the recipient. Site noise and poor antenna efficiency are your enemy. You need a proper antenna.

Trying to use a TK-190 from inside my pickup to a guy inside the cab of a telehandler was misery. The effective range was about two hundred yards.

 

[mmckenna]

The 6110 is/was a 70W mobile.

I've experienced firsthand the shortcomings of low band portables. They work, but not nearly as well as you'd hope.

and the NX-5600H RF decks are kind of big. Like, mount it behind the seat on a Uni-strut frame, big.

 

[12dbsinad]

Ah the Low Band portable... I remember being at many scenes on the FD talking so some dude across the Country with a southern accent but I couldn't talk to the person I wanted to talk too 500 ft away.

 

[mmckenna]

More low band goodness:

TPL Systèmes

TPL Systèmes est un des leaders français dans la conception et la fabrication d'équipements et de solutions de radiocommunication.

tplsystemes.com

This is a French company. Some of their mobiles do have FCC Part 90 grants. They make a small 50 watt low band radio with hand held control head. ~$1,100 range….
They have some portable radios, but none of them have FCC certification yet.

They make some nice mid-band stuff, but obviously not for the US market.

 

[a417]

CVSD as used in Securenet , is proprietary to Motorola and employs encryption such as DVP , Motorola proprietary algorithm, or DES which is a Federal Encryption standard, and the -XL options which is a Motorola range extension feature. Bottom line is, not only is Securenet proprietary, even with the 56 bit DES and DES -XL federal standard of encryption, it is for all practical purposes, unmonitorable unless you are a target of a three letter agency of a major super power.

It is possible some wideband SDR military radios might have the Securenet waveform, BUT the 56 bit encryption key will thwart them.

As far as I know, for low band, Motorola only offered the Securenet in certain Syntor and Syntor X9000 radios. Securenet was an option in many modern Motorola public safety models from 136 to 512 MHz.

SYNTOR X 9000 and X 9000E Mobile Radio Information

In my opinion, Securenet sounds better than P25. A bit more natural and virtually no throughput delay.

The encryption Key in the Syntor X9000 is lithium ion battery backed up for 15 years or more. Though you should change it more frequently.

cowtheif had one.

/s

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

cowtheif had one.

/s

I thought he had a DaekStar512 FPP Spectra? Who is this cowthief anyways?

 

[a417]

Hello.

Cowthief had a cleancab FPP SyntorXX Spectra with FASCINATOR.
It was from the aliens.

He knows these things.

[edit - sorry, this is a serious thread, i'll see my self out]

 

[DeoVindice]

More low band goodness:

TPL Systèmes

TPL Systèmes est un des leaders français dans la conception et la fabrication d'équipements et de solutions de radiocommunication.

tplsystemes.com

This is a French company. Some of their mobiles do have FCC Part 90 grants. They make a small 50 watt low band radio with hand held control head. ~$1,100 range….
They have some portable radios, but none of them have FCC certification yet.

They make some nice mid-band stuff, but obviously not for the US market.

Thank you for that link. If that $1100 range includes the Bluetooth control head, I'm officiallyvery interested. We've looked at PTToLTE and SATCOM solutions but something on-premises would be best.

 

[prcguy]

The Thales PRC-6809 MBITR has an option for DES that is compatible with older Motorola stuff. I've used an MBITR on 6m with attached 1m blade antenna and can talk fine from coastal Los Angeles to a 6m repeater on Catalina island about 30mi away.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

The Thales PRC-6809 MBITR has an option for DES that is compatible with older Motorola stuff. I've used an MBITR on 6m with attached 1m blade antenna and can talk fine from coastal Los Angeles to a 6m repeater on Catalina island about 30mi away.

Yup;
I have seen some spec sheets for green radios that alluded to that "waveform" capability. There is also a 16 Kbps variant of CVSD that is compatible with green radios and digital field phones. And then there is that Fascinator thang..