Panel: P25 encryption is not for everyone

[Markb]

The problem with discussing interoperability is that problems won't be discovered until that interoperability is needed. And those situations are frequently large scale disasters. That's when people discover the awful Tower of Babel they have created --only by then it is usually too late.

This piece is a well intentioned bit of advice, but it fails to properly justify itself.

Right on!
We had Christopher Dorner ambushing cops here in So Cal a few months back, which created an interop nightmare for law agencies on a couple of occasions during the event and the one thing it seems that Law agencies all walked away with is the need for encryption. Working together with other agencies is not very high on LE's list, especially compared to the Fire Service. Totally different mentalities.

 

[bravo14]

Before I left St Augustine/St Johns Co FL before the 800 system went up. They want the 800 system about 30-40 percent Encrypted also wants a 1,000 talkgroups. They are on the P25 l system.

 

[KD0TAZ]

Right on!
We had Christopher Dorner ambushing cops here in So Cal a few months back, which created an interop nightmare for law agencies on a couple of occasions during the event and the one thing it seems that Law agencies all walked away with is the need for encryption. Working together with other agencies is not very high on LE's list, especially compared to the Fire Service. Totally different mentalities.

Dorner was LAPD.. He would've had access to an encrypted radio. Encryption would not have done squat.

 

[N4GKS]

Etowah Co, went as fat as encrypting the gas company. ALL communication there is encrypted. Rather stupid if you ask me.

 

[bravo14]

Etowah Co, went as fat as encrypting the gas company. ALL communication there is encrypted. Rather stupid if you ask me.

I do notice in IL the power company is going to p25 and going to ENC wonder what they got to hide?

 

[tsalmrsystemtech]

The problem with discussing interoperability is that problems won't be discovered until that interoperability is needed. And those situations are frequently large scale disasters. That's when people discover the awful Tower of Babel they have created --only by then it is usually too late.

This piece is a well intentioned bit of advice, but it fails to properly justify itself.

Awmen Brother. I have said it over and over again. Major disaster city, county, or statewide really has not hit big time except for big hurricanes. When something hits really hard on our homeland then people will wake up.

Also, These cities are use blank checks our tax payers just cant cash. Yup no checks and balances. I guarantee if you were writing these blank checks in a corporate environment you a** would be fired. I am not joking either. When you have to answer to bigger bosses like the CFO, and the CEO, and the Share Holders and the Board of Directors then it becomes a different story.

 

[tsalmrsystemtech]

Dorner was LAPD.. He would've had access to an encrypted radio. Encryption would not have done squat.

LAPD has been wide open P25 in the clear for ever. Wouldn't have mattered. Chief Charlie Beck has said over and over again that he wants full transparency in his department which is a good thing.

What a great concept HUH.............

So for a big department not too worried about the big E word then why is so many departments paranoid.

 

[poltergeisty]

In my small town of 66,000 people the police here will turn on encryption in 2015. Maybe I should E-mail this article to the PIO. :lol:

One of the commenters in the article said that he supports full time encryption and that silent alarms were a merit to going ENC. Well what the hell is a MDT for? My town communicates with them all the time!

 

[bear780ks]

Mine does as well on the MDT's they have used them for a long while long before Digital even existed here when we were still on VHF the only one back in those days that threw on the Scrambler was the Haven Chief when they were on the Hunt for some one or Looking for Narcotics..

There's been more Enc. Traffic Lately on our PD / S.O. Dispatch when there running 29's than when i first got my 396 back in Feb. It kind of funny but not funny I'v been hearing more on the Narc. Talk Group over in Sedgwick Co. which is supposed to be ENC. but there running in the open.. why i don't Know but when there doing it here all you get is the one sided Conversation:roll: Ra

 

[poltergeisty]

Back in '08 I heard one sided ENC coms from the DNC in Denver. I love when stuff like that happens. :lol:

 

[bear780ks]

Yea i Know.. Whats fun or was is when i first rode.. you get to see some of the Action first hand but the more i Road with the guys the more i respected the Work they Do..

 

[MTS2000des]

LAPD has been wide open P25 in the clear for ever. Wouldn't have mattered. Chief Charlie Beck has said over and over again that he wants full transparency in his department which is a good thing.

What a great concept HUH.............

So for a big department not too worried about the big E word then why is so many departments paranoid.

The cities and counties who make transparency and interoperability a priority don't run encryption on wide basis: LAPD, NYPD, Boston, Miami, Atlanta, Seattle, to name a few...run the gamut from digital conventional, to trunking to analog conventional- and yet, all of these cities law enforcement has made DISPATCH channels/talkgroups in the clear a priority.

It's always those smaller towns/cities, or those larger ones with checkered pasts of cops gone bad, that feel the need to be concerned about their "officer's safety" so much so to hide everything they do on a daily basis.

It's the one reason you won't catch me crossing the state line that borders Georgia to the south anytime soon.

 

[NYRHKY94]

A good read from a technical perspective. Too bad though the article "never mentions" the loss of transparency in government side of the debate, when departments take the day-to-day communications encryption route.

 

[Ronaldski]

Encryption assuredly defeats the whole idea of their new radios which is the whole idea in the first place - interoperability with other agencies, towns, counties.

Other thing I am told that with it, the batteries get drained very quickly on their radios as I'm sure the radios do extra work.

 

[Ronaldski]

In my small town of 66,000 people the police here will turn on encryption in 2015. Maybe I should E-mail this article to the PIO. :lol:

I would also include every city commissioner, since they are the ones that likely are ones who give the ok to all the money.

 

[wbswetnam]

I have been an avid scanner listener for 30 years, and I can think of countless times where a bad guy was caught by a LE agency in an adjacent town because they were able to monitor each others' dispatched traffic. As an example, about 12 years ago there was a purse snatching in a Pennsylvania community which bordered the New York state line. The culprit got away on a bicycle, and was headed north toward New York state, only a mile away. The local police in the Pennsylvania community broadcast a description of the suspect and his bicycle and direction of travel. Local police on the Pennsylvania side were scouring the area looking for the suspect, when one said to dispatch "Maybe you should call ______ (on the New York side) and advise them of this situation". The police dispatcher of the community ON THE NEW YORK SIDE immediately responded on the Pennsylvania frequency and said "10-4 we've been monitoring your traffic, and one of our officers has just now stopped the suspect." Sure enough, the suspect had booked it northward, thinking he could make a getaway by crossing the state line, but because the cops on the New York side of the state line were already aware of the robbery by monitoring local Pennsylvania frequencies, they got the purse snatcher just as he crossed into New York state. That, my friends, is why dispatch channels should not be encrypted.

 

[ProducerGuy]

Forsyth County GA only lists ONE encrypted group. The rest is open, as it should be. However, Gwinnett, Hall, and Walton counties are mostly encrypted, except for maybe fire and meter readers. I was just informed before typing this reply, that Gwinnett County won't even share keys with GSP (God's Special People), which means they still cannot do interop. So what the hell good is interop in the first place, if everybody wants to hide ?

Floyd County (Rome, GA), which is probably the newest system in GA, only shows a few encrypted groups, which are SWAT, DTF, etc., but the rest of the system is open. Albany/Dougherty has suddenly gone encrypted....what does a south GA city like Albany need with encryption ????? Nothing's happened there since the flood(s) back in the 1990's.

One peeve of mine, is the loose chit-chat that goes on on "tac" or "private" talkgroups. Cops need to remember that everything can be heard, overheard, and recorded. Keep it professional ! Or is THAT the impetus for encryption ????? Imagine how much would go on, if everything were encrypted.

To agree with MTS2000des, counties with "something to hide" with a questionable past history seem to be ones "needing" encryption. To hide from the very people you're serving, begs the question of ulterior motive. I think the attitude should be more of getting citizens involved, or at least being grateful that a citizen hears something going on, and is kind enough to call in what they see....all because they heard it on the scanner. But wait....the cops wanna beat the stuffings out of their next traffic stop subject.

 

[karldotcom]

I think he was referring to SBSO comms about burning the house to the ground....

Dorner was LAPD.. He would've had access to an encrypted radio. Encryption would not have done squat.

 

[karldotcom]

or the City Council

In my small town of 66,000 people the police here will turn on encryption in 2015. Maybe I should E-mail this article to the PIO. :lol:

 

[ecanderson]

Don't get me wrong, as I like Tait products, but this article is clearly an attempt to dissuade people from going with ADP.

Which isn't a bad thing if an agency really does want to go encrypted. ADP + software defined radio + some effort = audio in the clear. It's been shown to be a bit of work, but entirely possible.