Plain talk by the Virginia State Police

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benjaminfs733

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JoeyC said:
Because their studies have determined your fears do not exist and plain speech works well!

I am curious what studies have been done. I have never seen any and would like to.

I was very against the idea when we switched where I work. I just did not see the need since every one in our region (PD, EMS, FD, even wreckers) used the same codes. My only problem with it now is we got ride of some we should not have. Now if I am standing next to a person who comes back with a warrant they will just say that subject has a warrant. Which to me is a very big officer safety issue. And then there are some codes that really shorten speech and it is more difficult to say in plain English. And of course as regions change so does plain language, example is it SWAT, CRT, ERT, etc? What do you call the computer system in your state, ambulances, etc.? No mater where you go regionally there will always be a learning curve. But over all as a staunch plain language cynic I have been turned to believe that there is no problem with it, I just wish we had kept about 10% of them for safety and efficiency.

Ben
 

JoeyC

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I know of no formal studies. I only go on what I have heard other LE officers relay and a little common sense.

First, if your subject has a warrant, most likely they are aware of it and the use of a 10-code isn't going to provide you with any protection anyway. Secondly, there should be policies and procedures in the department that preclude the dispatcher from just shouting out sensitive or information such as you're "subject is wanted" out blindly. If someone knows that he has a warrant out, and you just held his DL up and gave the info to the dispatcher over the radio in front of the subject, and the dispatcher returns back with a 10-code that the subject hears, who is to say that the subject isn't going to react no matter what the 10 code is? He knows he is wanted, and for all he knows, the 10-whatever given just blew it for him. Thirdly, you probably shouldn't be standing right next to someone you are running without a back up unit present, or the subject detained in the first place.

Milliseconds of off time saved by saying "10-29" versus "check for wants on my subject please" is really irrelevant when you think about it. Key up and down time, repeater tails and the time it takes the human brain to react makes a 10 code (or string of them) almost a non issue.

I agree, that to keep a few codes are harmless. 10-4 being one...
 
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exkalibur

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Toronto Police doesn't use any type of coding system at all. Aside from the "universal" abbreviations like a PDO, PI, VSA, EDP, HBD and that kind of thing. Makes listening nice :) Niagara Regional Police used 900 codes all the time which was pretty annoying, but you get used to it.
 

KI4IHC

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benjaminfs733 said:
INow if I am standing next to a person who comes back with a warrant they will just say that subject has a warrant. Which to me is a very big officer safety issue.

Fairfax County has been plain language for several years, but they still use some codes - one to deal with this particular issue. If a dispatcher has to tell an officer that the subject they just ran has a warrant, suspended license, or anything, they first call the officer and ask if they are 10-12 (alone), if they are then they say whatever it is they have to say.
 

smwincva

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I have heard some plain talk on the Shenandoah County Sherriff's Office frequencies. The 10 codes are still being used there.

As far as the VSP, what was once a "10-50A" is now a deer wreck. And in the last several nights, I have heard many deer wrecks!

Steve
 

Stick0413

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JoeyC said:
I know of no formal studies. I only go on what I have heard other LE officers relay and a little common sense.

First, if your subject has a warrant, most likely they are aware of it and the use of a 10-code isn't going to provide you with any protection anyway. Secondly, there should be policies and procedures in the department that preclude the dispatcher from just shouting out sensitive or information such as you're "subject is wanted" out blindly. If someone knows that he has a warrant out, and you just held his DL up and gave the info to the dispatcher over the radio in front of the subject, and the dispatcher returns back with a 10-code that the subject hears, who is to say that the subject isn't going to react no matter what the 10 code is? He knows he is wanted, and for all he knows, the 10-whatever given just blew it for him. Thirdly, you probably shouldn't be standing right next to someone you are running without a back up unit present, or the subject detained in the first place.

Milliseconds of off time saved by saying "10-29" versus "check for wants on my subject please" is really irrelevant when you think about it. Key up and down time, repeater tails and the time it takes the human brain to react makes a 10 code (or string of them) almost a non issue.

I agree, that to keep a few codes are harmless. 10-4 being one...

i have one problem from what you have said. 10-29/check for warrents. Most of the departments around here do not have a backing unit (or detained the subject) when they run someones license. It may be that way out your way but in general its not like that here.
 

benjaminfs733

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Same here many times in KY we don't always have back-up. And I have run across many persons who had warrants they did not know about. Yes, some people will know what the codes are but the vast majority will not know and that is the advantage. I can say to a back-up (if I get one) 10-15 and he would know that I am asking him to arrest a person (all without them knowing it).

And just to to emphasize the redundancy of "plain language" some one posted above that the PD in Canada only use '"universal" abbreviations like a PDO, PI, VSA, EDP, HBD'. I have no idea what any one of those abbreviations mean. There will always be a regional "code", local abbreviations for actions, people, and locations. Anyone not familiar with it will be at some disadvantage, the idea is not so have so many codes that an outsider cannot over come this natural "local language".
 

tglendye

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I recall reading a story of a North Carolina trooper who was killed while running a check on a subject. At the time, the NCHP did not have a code for armed & dangerous. The dispatcher asked if the trooper had the subject with him, and the trooper replied he did (I think he was in the trooper's vehicle). The dispatcher asked if the trooper was familiar with the old 10-32 (Gun- it may have been a different code there…). The trooper had been around a couple of years, but it wasn't taught in his academy- and he advised he wasn't familiar with the meaning. The dispatcher advised something to the effect the subject was wanted & armed and dangerous. The subject then overpowered the trooper, shot & killed him.

If I could find the book, I would go back and read it again. I think the NCHP developed a code for that particular situation after the incident. If I remember correctly, the book was called "Trooper Down".

I’m from the fire service. I don’t think we need 10-codes, however I do feel they are beneficial to law enforcement. I am surprised VSP dropped theirs. After all, the Homeland Security secretary advised a few months ago that agencies could still use their own 10-codes in their jurisdictions, but needed to drop them when they assisted agencies with different codes. I’ve read that VSP had confusion going to New Orleans since their 10-codes were different. That shouldn’t have been such a shock in my mind. Just use a little common sense when you’re in someone else’s backyard.
 

JoeyC

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Stick0413 said:
i have one problem from what you have said. 10-29/check for warrents. Most of the departments around here do not have a backing unit (or detained the subject) when they run someones license. It may be that way out your way but in general its not like that here.

So why are you doing all this within ear shot of your subject? And/or why doesn't your dispatch make sure you are in a safe situation (out of reach of the person in question) before blurting out that there are active warrants?
 

benjaminfs733

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As stated before it is not common for Law Enforcement in KY to have back-up. Therefore it is often not possible to just be out of ear shot of the people I am dealing with. If I am at a domestic in a small residence and run both parties I cannot just step away and wait the sometimes 2 to 5 minutes it may take for them to call me back.
I don't really understand the argument from your side. We had a good system. If someone/something I ran was wanted in some form they would simply reply 10-29. I personally get very angry when dispatch calls and asks if they are present. First this is a tip off to them, second I don't know what they will tell me, the name of the complainant, the person is wanted, they have HIV. When I need to know something I want to know it right then.
We have been using plain language for months now, and as I stated before this is my only real complaint. We had a great system that kept us safe and there was no plan to replace it when we switched (which I admit is obviously an agency/dispatcher issue). Therefore every one just ad hoc's it. Every one was instructed to say exactly what the codes used to mean and this just simply does not always work.
If you truly believe what you said above, "I agree, that to keep a few codes are harmless. 10-4 being one..." then why can our agency just keep 10-29 for our own agency use?
 

JoeyC

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It sounds as if your department ought to worry about officer safety instead of the lingo they use on the radio. As you should be aware if you are LE, domestic disputes can be among the most violent of calls. Sending one man units without backup to domestics is more wreckless than any radio policy they may have...

I don't have any problem with 10 codes. I simply stated (in other words) that abandoning them for plain speach doesn't open a plethora of problems related to safety.
 

tuttleje

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This topic made CNN today:

Cop codes are history, 10-4?

RICHMOND, Virginia (AP) -- Anyone who ever played cops-and-robbers as a kid, listened to a police scanner or watched TV shows such as "Dragnet" or "Adam-12" knows that "10-4" and other codes beginning with 10 are radio cop-speak for "OK," or "officer down" or "burglary in progress."

But now it looks as if it's over-and-out for 10-codes.

The Virginia State Police and some local police departments are dropping them and switching to plain English.

Among the codes that have been shelved in favor of their English translation are the mundane 10-23 (arrived at the scene), the blood-pumping 10-47 (chase in progress) and the grim 10-82 (dead body).

The change comes as the Homeland Security Department presses local law enforcement authorities to improve communications so that different agencies can work together without confusion during an emergency.

The 10-code system dates to the 1920s when police radios had only one channel and officers needed to relay information succinctly. But over time, departments developed their own 10-codes.

A 10-50 to a Virginia state trooper, for example, means an auto accident. In Maryland, it means an officer is down. (10-4 seems to mean the same thing everywhere: OK.)

The potential for confusion became all too plain during such disasters as the September 11 attacks and Hurricane Katrina, when Virginia state police went to Mississippi's Gulf Coast to help out.

The York-Poquoson sheriff's department switched to plain talk two years ago. The city of Hampton is thinking about it. More departments are expected to follow in the next year or two.

Some slip-ups
For the Virginia State Police, the switch to a "common language protocol" took effect November 1, but it's clear that change is not going to occur overnight.

The codes are second nature to many officers, some of whom have been using them for decades. It's how officers were trained, and it's probably one of the things that made police work seem so glamorous when they were kids. Some officers even speak to each other in 10-code off the radio.

"We haven't had any mass cries of blood," said Lt. Col. H.C. Davis of the Virginia State Police. "But when you go out on the radio, you still hear the 10-codes. And we knew that was going to happen."

Trooper Steve Rusher, a 10-year veteran, said: "Every now and then, you slip, but everybody knows what you mean, so it's not a big deal."

In fact, 10-4 is so ingrained that it's fine with the State Police if troopers continue to say it instead of "Affirmative" or "OK."

Also, asking for backup or telling a dispatcher that an arrest is about to be made will still be done in code to avoid tipping off anyone who might be listening to radio traffic.

A sheet with a list of standardized plain-English terms is being sent to all troopers to make sure they sound professional on the radio.

"You don't want to say 'broke-down car.' It doesn't sound professional," Davis said. "You don't want to say 'dead skunk in the road.' You want to say, 'There's an animal carcass."'
 
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benjaminfs733

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JoeyC, I appreciate your concern on the matter. I only wish it was only my department that had a safety issue. I don't know how it works in CA but in KY many counties don't have a Sheriff that patrols the county 24/7 (many only have 1 or 2 deputy's at all if that). And over 70% of the Police Departments in KY have 10 or less Officers. And in most areas the State Police only has 2 Officers (or less many times) on duty to cover a 10 county area after about 3:00 AM. Which means that if they are needed they get called and woken up. Hard and fast rule in KY, you have to take care of yourself many times and I and many Officers see a few Codes as helping out. As we will apparently never convince each other I appreciate the spirited debate and will not take up anymore of the Virgina board with this topic.

Ben
 

tglendye

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benjaminfs733,

Welcome to the Va board and come back any time!
 

BoxAlarm187

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The plain language initiative WILL work. I don't understand why people feel like it won't work, when there have been numerous agencies in the US (and Canada) that have been using clear text sucessfully for many years.

Those of you in law enforcement probably remember hearing "for in times of crisis, you will revert to your training" during your tenure at the academy. This is so very true. If you're in a crisis situation calling for assistance (perhaps you're on SIRS) and using 10-codes that don't make any sense, you're only delaying the help that you need. You're not using these 10-codes because you're thinking about it, you're using them because you've been "programmed" to.

As for the officer safety situation, the people that are making the decision to go to the plain language aren't so dumb that they didn't know that relaying sensative information in the presense of a wanted person wouldn't occur. Therefore, I reference a post made by forum member topcop1833 (an employee of the Commonwealth) about 3 months ago:

don't take it as gospel, but this is what i was told....

the only "10 codes" used will be signal 1-4.
signal 1 - old version of 10-33
signal 2 - need assistance
signal 3 - sorry, i cant remember this one
signal 4 - prepare for sensitive info to be passed (kinda like when youd get a hit, and dispatch would come back and just say 10-99, rather than flat out say he's wanted.

all of the plain speak stuff is supposed to be what you would see as definitions on the 10 codes list.

As the earlier poster said, I enjoy a lively debate, but I am afraid that post-9/11, the idea of interoperability is here to stay.
 

tuttleje

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Even thought I said James City County Police went to all plain language, I heard the dispatcher ask an officer if he was "Signal 2" (alone). The officer had just stopped a vehicle and ran the VIN. After the officer replied he was "Signal 2", the dispatcher advised that the car was stolen. Although I fully agree with plain language, there is utility in a "Signal 2" code.....or phrase. After 34 years of law enforcement (now retired), I can attest that simple traffic stops can go bad in seconds. The docile traffic offender can turn violent without any warning. All it would take is the wrong transmission over the radio to alert a suspect that he has been discovered. I agree that many suspects know when they are wanted...but you do not want to add the catalyst of a remark over the radio when the suspect is standing next to the officer. A "Signal 2" gives the officer time to prepare and, if necessary, delay until a backup unit can arrive. It's all about survival. There is no alternative.
 

Stick0413

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benjaminfs733 said:
JoeyC, I appreciate your concern on the matter. I only wish it was only my department that had a safety issue. I don't know how it works in CA but in KY many counties don't have a Sheriff that patrols the county 24/7 (many only have 1 or 2 deputy's at all if that). And over 70% of the Police Departments in KY have 10 or less Officers. And in most areas the State Police only has 2 Officers (or less many times) on duty to cover a 10 county area after about 3:00 AM. Which means that if they are needed they get called and woken up. Hard and fast rule in KY, you have to take care of yourself many times and I and many Officers see a few Codes as helping out. As we will apparently never convince each other I appreciate the spirited debate and will not take up anymore of the Virgina board with this topic.

Ben

For a domestic around here they will dispatch 2 units. The thing is that you get into outlying counties and they dont have the manpower to do that at night. I personally know that the Prince George Police Department runs a 2 officer shift overnight as the norm. Dinwiddie I think is the same way with 2 deputies at night. These are huge counties and getting a backing unit could take 20 plus minutes, even running code 3. You might have a chance to get a state trooper to back you but that still isnt always the case.

As stated above feel free to come back to the Virginia board at anytime. You have a valid argument for this topic so you are not just taking up space.
 

W4UVV

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Didn't they read the directive from the Governor?

tuttleje said:
This topic made CNN today:

Cop codes are history, 10-4?

RICHMOND, Virginia (AP) -- Anyone who ever played cops-and-robbers as a kid, listened to a police scanner or watched TV shows such as "Dragnet" or "Adam-12" knows that "10-4" and other codes beginning with 10 are radio cop-speak for "OK," or "officer down" or "burglary in progress."

But now it looks as if it's over-and-out for 10-codes.

The Virginia State Police and some local police departments are dropping them and switching to plain English.

Among the codes that have been shelved in favor of their English translation are the mundane 10-23 (arrived at the scene), the blood-pumping 10-47 (chase in progress) and the grim 10-82 (dead body).

The change comes as the Homeland Security Department presses local law enforcement authorities to improve communications so that different agencies can work together without confusion during an emergency.

The 10-code system dates to the 1920s when police radios had only one channel and officers needed to relay information succinctly. But over time, departments developed their own 10-codes.

A 10-50 to a Virginia state trooper, for example, means an auto accident. In Maryland, it means an officer is down. (10-4 seems to mean the same thing everywhere: OK.)

The potential for confusion became all too plain during such disasters as the September 11 attacks and Hurricane Katrina, when Virginia state police went to Mississippi's Gulf Coast to help out.

The York-Poquoson sheriff's department switched to plain talk two years ago. The city of Hampton is thinking about it. More departments are expected to follow in the next year or two.

Some slip-ups
For the Virginia State Police, the switch to a "common language protocol" took effect November 1, but it's clear that change is not going to occur overnight.

The codes are second nature to many officers, some of whom have been using them for decades. It's how officers were trained, and it's probably one of the things that made police work seem so glamorous when they were kids. Some officers even speak to each other in 10-code off the radio.

"We haven't had any mass cries of blood," said Lt. Col. H.C. Davis of the Virginia State Police. "But when you go out on the radio, you still hear the 10-codes. And we knew that was going to happen."

Trooper Steve Rusher, a 10-year veteran, said: "Every now and then, you slip, but everybody knows what you mean, so it's not a big deal."

In fact, 10-4 is so ingrained that it's fine with the State Police if troopers continue to say it instead of "Affirmative" or "OK."

Also, asking for backup or telling a dispatcher that an arrest is about to be made will still be done in code to avoid tipping off anyone who might be listening to radio traffic.

A sheet with a list of standardized plain-English terms is being sent to all troopers to make sure they sound professional on the radio.

"You don't want to say 'broke-down car.' It doesn't sound professional," Davis said. "You don't want to say 'dead skunk in the road.' You want to say, 'There's an animal carcass."'

If today's casual monitoring of the two Richmond VSP repeater comms which included complaints from several VSP troopers that their super duper big bucks STARS radios weren't working properly, i.e., denial displays when attempting to transmit, etc., apparantly some of the troopers didn't read the Governor's dictum about not using 10 codes. If they did they weren't complying. 10 code usage was alive and well today by some.
 
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