Please think twice before contributing sensitive Phila. PD talkgroups to the RR DB!

[phask]

You may have created, you may admin, you may create or delete, but in no way are you owner of phillyscanner Yahoo group.

It may be semantics, but I believe you would find Yahoo is the owner. If, or and when they decide to disband all their groups, it will be gone.

As to your original argument - it has no merit. I live in a tiny county. Our LEO has enough intelligence to encrypt when needed. If Philly can't or won't and assume they will not be heard, then they have much larger issues.

Hi Lindsay,

I don't want to get into an argument and I was very cordial and respectful of RR policy. I stressed this in my previous posts.

Since I gave the guide up around 3 years ago, Scanner Digest took over the maintenance and hosting and For Philadelphia, there are no sensitive talkgroups listed in the files.

Finally I still am the owner of the phillyscanner Yahoo group. Yes it is part of the rules. Here is a snipped of the forum rules:


In addition, the list owner reserves the right to remove/ban membership access for the following violations: use of foul language, discussion of illegal radio activity, flaming and/or insulting members, and unrelated commercial spamming. Also discussions pertaining to sensitive communications, such as narcotics task force activities, frequencies, and talkgroups, are prohibited.

thank you,

 

[bigcam406]

agree totally with jcardani..just because the tg's are unsecured doesnt mean we should post them for the world to see.its common sense in this hobby.if you live in the area,why wouldnt you keep it to yourself? im sure the hobbyists that actually own scanners would agree.

 

[SouthernRoller]

If they don't want their Tactical channels heard, then encrypt them. It don't get any simpler!!

 

[jcardani]

You may have created, you may admin, you may create or delete, but in no way are you owner of phillyscanner Yahoo group.

It may be semantics, but I believe you would find Yahoo is the owner. If, or and when they decide to disband all their groups, it will be gone.

As to your original argument - it has no merit. I live in a tiny county. Our LEO has enough intelligence to encrypt when needed. If Philly can't or won't and assume they will not be heard, then they have much larger issues.

That's why is says "List Owner" next to my name.

 

[bigcam406]

If they don't want their Tactical channels heard, then encrypt them. It don't get any simpler!!

its not about hearing them,its about posting what you hear on this site.it is pretty simple.

 

[buddrousa]

Joe I am sorry you are being SELFISH over this matter if I did not like the rules of a site that belonged to someone else I would leave. It has nothing to do other than you are thinking of yourself only. It is TACTICAL ENCRYPT the signals not try to hold us hostage. I find it SORRY you use this site for all of your information and now you do not want anybody else to have this information. So if I was to join your site I would not see any post about TACTICAL talkgroups for the last several years.

 

[phillydjdan]

You know guys, none of your excuses/law citations/TOS citations and all that other crap means anything. There are facts in play that defy your logic:

1- PPD brass DO monitor this site and these forums
2- PPD brass DO NOT understand how radio systems work
3- PPD brass DO react in non-logical ways
4- PPD brass DID reprogram all radios to have strapped encryption as a direct result of the last batch of talkgroups being published

I am willing to bet any amount of money that the new batch will soon be 100% encrypted thanks to the genius who thought it was a good idea to blab it to the world. You see, you guys fail to understand the concept of vindictive agencies and the need to keep certain things to yourself. I have a long list of private and/or tactical channels from various areas that I have not shared outside a small group of people. You know what? They are still there being used like they always have. The cops are still talking crap about people and cursing and all the other things they do when they think nobody's listening. Yes it's possible to find them out yourself. And yes, they know this. But if it's kept off the internet they aren't thinking about it. This society doesn't believe it keeping anything on the "down-low" anymore and it's stupid. IT'S STUPID! You guys are killing our hobby (and some of our businesses also). STOP POSTING SENSITIVE CHANNELS!!! I don't know how much mire simpler I can say it. STOP IT!

You can keep your head in the sand and say RR isn't killing the hobby but you are wrong. There WILL be a time when the database will be nothing but DEPRECATED former trunked systems because all the new ones are fully encrypted and we can't get any info from it. Mark my words, boys! Lower Merion just shut us out. Gloucester County is shutting us out for police. Camden did too.

Many years ago I was part of a fire buff radio group. One of the things we were told never to do is voice our opinion about anything regarding public safety over the air. You know why? Because if I were to get on the radio and say "Wow, Battalion 8 just ordered the 2nd alarm, I guess he doesn't know how to fight a fire" about 50 people would hear me say it, including brass at the PFD. Don't think for a second they weren't listening to us. You just say he struck the 2nd alarm and be done with it.

I hear things over my radios all the time that would get people in serious trouble. Cursing is the biggest offense. Saying nasty things about criminal defendants and even witnesses is another. If I had recorded those conversations and provided them to the right people (FCC, defense counsel, etc) people would be greatly impacted by it. Guilty criminals could beat their case because of comments by a cop. But I don't. Here's the key here: I KEEP IT TO MYSELF!

The forums admins can do what they want about my post here. Suspend me, ban me, quite frankly I don't give a ****. I get my best info outside of this site anyway. Or I find it out myself. Those of you who follow my activity on here know that my participation has dropped off to nearly nothing. That's thanks to the site itsself. I refuse to submit any really good info in fear that the agencies involved will see it and do something. I happen to know that a local police department uses an unlicensed simplex channel for private comms. You will never know what it is. Why? Because those of us who were searching for it like having it around. If it's posted, some jackass will report it to the FCC and it will go away again, making us search for it again. Why do that to ourselves?

I think I've pissed off just about all of you at this point, so I will end my rant. Have fun kicking cops in the shins under the guise of "public information". I will be here by myself enjoying the few little jems I have left.

 

[bigcam406]

ive had 4 regional PD's go encrypted in the last 8 years because of info posted on this site.and all the reasons given from these region's brass were the same....information pertaining to the talkgroups used posted on this site,plus people streaming their local areas PD.if that doesnt explain the reasons why encryption is on the rise,i dont know what will.

 

[SouthernRoller]

Tactical channels should be encrypted...

 

[Citywide173]

So frankly, maybe we're doing these agencies a favor by pointing out publicly that their tactical and sensitive communications can be monitored by anyone.

Routine and general dispatch communications, as you know, we openly and aggressively advocate to be made publicly available for the public good.

By being unwilling to work with a department when they have an issue by hiding behind the fact that it is public information, are you really so obtuse that you think any agency that has this "pointed out" to them will only encrypt the tactical channels? They're going to throw the switch on the whole system. I understand that the more complete the volunteer database is, the more secure your licensing agreement with Uniden and Whistler is, but what good will it be when the majority is encrypted?

 

[phillydjdan]

I wouldn't even waste your time arguing with Lindsay about this. He clearly doesn't care about anything but his pockets. It's a real shame. This site used to be a hobbyist site. Now its solely for profit. It's gonna dry up eventually...

 

[MaximusTheGreat]

You know guys, none of your excuses/law citations/TOS citations and all that other crap means anything. There are facts in play that defy your logic:

1- PPD brass DO monitor this site and these forums
2- PPD brass DO NOT understand how radio systems work
3- PPD brass DO react in non-logical ways
4- PPD brass DID reprogram all radios to have strapped encryption as a direct result of the last batch of talkgroups being published

I am willing to bet any amount of money that the new batch will soon be 100% encrypted thanks to the genius who thought it was a good idea to blab it to the world. You see, you guys fail to understand the concept of vindictive agencies and the need to keep certain things to yourself. I have a long list of private and/or tactical channels from various areas that I have not shared outside a small group of people. You know what? They are still there being used like they always have. The cops are still talking crap about people and cursing and all the other things they do when they think nobody's listening. Yes it's possible to find them out yourself. And yes, they know this. But if it's kept off the internet they aren't thinking about it. This society doesn't believe it keeping anything on the "down-low" anymore and it's stupid. IT'S STUPID! You guys are killing our hobby (and some of our businesses also). STOP POSTING SENSITIVE CHANNELS!!! I don't know how much mire simpler I can say it. STOP IT!

You can keep your head in the sand and say RR isn't killing the hobby but you are wrong. There WILL be a time when the database will be nothing but DEPRECATED former trunked systems because all the new ones are fully encrypted and we can't get any info from it. Mark my words, boys! Lower Merion just shut us out. Gloucester County is shutting us out for police. Camden did too.

Many years ago I was part of a fire buff radio group. One of the things we were told never to do is voice our opinion about anything regarding public safety over the air. You know why? Because if I were to get on the radio and say "Wow, Battalion 8 just ordered the 2nd alarm, I guess he doesn't know how to fight a fire" about 50 people would hear me say it, including brass at the PFD. Don't think for a second they weren't listening to us. You just say he struck the 2nd alarm and be done with it.

I hear things over my radios all the time that would get people in serious trouble. Cursing is the biggest offense. Saying nasty things about criminal defendants and even witnesses is another. If I had recorded those conversations and provided them to the right people (FCC, defense counsel, etc) people would be greatly impacted by it. Guilty criminals could beat their case because of comments by a cop. But I don't. Here's the key here: I KEEP IT TO MYSELF!

The forums admins can do what they want about my post here. Suspend me, ban me, quite frankly I don't give a ****. I get my best info outside of this site anyway. Or I find it out myself. Those of you who follow my activity on here know that my participation has dropped off to nearly nothing. That's thanks to the site itsself. I refuse to submit any really good info in fear that the agencies involved will see it and do something. I happen to know that a local police department uses an unlicensed simplex channel for private comms. You will never know what it is. Why? Because those of us who were searching for it like having it around. If it's posted, some jackass will report it to the FCC and it will go away again, making us search for it again. Why do that to ourselves?

I think I've pissed off just about all of you at this point, so I will end my rant. Have fun kicking cops in the shins under the guise of "public information". I will be here by myself enjoying the few little jems I have left.

Very Well said!!!! [emoji41]

 

[SouthernRoller]

How long is this dead horse going to be beaten?

 

[Citywide173]

How long is this dead horse going to be beaten?

Well, your post asking this put it to the top of the "New Posts" link, so I'd say however long you want it to.

 

[buddrousa]

Most are running non affiliated radios anyway it will only be a matter of time before they would have it again because we all know the city will give you the key for the non affiliated radios.

 

[cpetraglia]

You know guys, none of your excuses/law citations/TOS citations and all that other crap means anything. There are facts in play that defy your logic:

1- PPD brass DO monitor this site and these forums
2- PPD brass DO NOT understand how radio systems work
3- PPD brass DO react in non-logical ways
4- PPD brass DID reprogram all radios to have strapped encryption as a direct result of the last batch of talkgroups being published

I am willing to bet any amount of money that the new batch will soon be 100% encrypted thanks to the genius who thought it was a good idea to blab it to the world. You see, you guys fail to understand the concept of vindictive agencies and the need to keep certain things to yourself. I have a long list of private and/or tactical channels from various areas that I have not shared outside a small group of people. You know what? They are still there being used like they always have. The cops are still talking crap about people and cursing and all the other things they do when they think nobody's listening. Yes it's possible to find them out yourself. And yes, they know this. But if it's kept off the internet they aren't thinking about it. This society doesn't believe it keeping anything on the "down-low" anymore and it's stupid. IT'S STUPID! You guys are killing our hobby (and some of our businesses also). STOP POSTING SENSITIVE CHANNELS!!! I don't know how much mire simpler I can say it. STOP IT!

You can keep your head in the sand and say RR isn't killing the hobby but you are wrong. There WILL be a time when the database will be nothing but DEPRECATED former trunked systems because all the new ones are fully encrypted and we can't get any info from it. Mark my words, boys! Lower Merion just shut us out. Gloucester County is shutting us out for police. Camden did too.

Many years ago I was part of a fire buff radio group. One of the things we were told never to do is voice our opinion about anything regarding public safety over the air. You know why? Because if I were to get on the radio and say "Wow, Battalion 8 just ordered the 2nd alarm, I guess he doesn't know how to fight a fire" about 50 people would hear me say it, including brass at the PFD. Don't think for a second they weren't listening to us. You just say he struck the 2nd alarm and be done with it.

I hear things over my radios all the time that would get people in serious trouble. Cursing is the biggest offense. Saying nasty things about criminal defendants and even witnesses is another. If I had recorded those conversations and provided them to the right people (FCC, defense counsel, etc) people would be greatly impacted by it. Guilty criminals could beat their case because of comments by a cop. But I don't. Here's the key here: I KEEP IT TO MYSELF!

The forums admins can do what they want about my post here. Suspend me, ban me, quite frankly I don't give a ****. I get my best info outside of this site anyway. Or I find it out myself. Those of you who follow my activity on here know that my participation has dropped off to nearly nothing. That's thanks to the site itsself. I refuse to submit any really good info in fear that the agencies involved will see it and do something. I happen to know that a local police department uses an unlicensed simplex channel for private comms. You will never know what it is. Why? Because those of us who were searching for it like having it around. If it's posted, some jackass will report it to the FCC and it will go away again, making us search for it again. Why do that to ourselves?

I think I've pissed off just about all of you at this point, so I will end my rant. Have fun kicking cops in the shins under the guise of "public information". I will be here by myself enjoying the few little jems I have left.

You haven't pissed me off. I have been saying the same thing about streaming and gotten in trouble for it.
I agree 100%.
Seems like everyone wants to push the envelope and really don't see what its doing to our hobby.

Chuck

 

[blantonl]

I wouldn't even waste your time arguing with Lindsay about this. He clearly doesn't care about anything but his pockets. It's a real shame. This site used to be a hobbyist site. Now its solely for profit. It's gonna dry up eventually...

It's pretty clear that you don't like how things are run around here - I would actively encourage you to vote with your feet and leave if you don't like how the community is run.

And a quick economics reminder to you - all businesses are run solely for a profit in this country, it's called capitalism. So far, we seem to be doing a good job. I mean, we've developed a platform that has encouraged you to:

1) Post over 1,400 times in the forums
2) Host 3 live audio feeds at some point in your 'tenure' around here, including the "Lower Bucks County Police Departments" - police streaming! gasp!

Wait, and there is more. phillydjdan runs a Web site called PhillyFireFeed.com (free advertising for you!) that prominently proclaims "We are now pleased to offer a premium membership to our website. Premium subscribers get access to our regular features, plus exclusive members-only features" - the cost? $45/year... wozers! that's more expensive than us! But hey, capitalism, I believe in it, and so I hope things go well for your efforts.

Moving on...

By being unwilling to work with a department when they have an issue by hiding behind the fact that it is public information, are you really so obtuse that you think any agency that has this "pointed out" to them will only encrypt the tactical channels?

Oh for crying out loud - obtuse? Unwilling to work with a department? Last time I checked, no one with the Philadelphia Police Department ever has reached out to me. Additionally, I didn't realize that it was RadioReference.com's sole responsibility to protect the integrity and security of radio communications for PPD by censoring talkgroup data.

You guys seem to be experts, why don't you don that cap and tell PPD "brass" what they really need to do - and that is encrypt their sensitive tactical communications. I mean, if you want what is for the greater good for PPD, you'll put your selfish motives aside and do what's best for them, wont you do that?

With all of this said - I get the last word. I actively encourage everyone to submit whatever they can regarding these and all radio systems.

Joe: mad respect for you and all you've done for the hobby over the years, but this position doesn't reflect how we operate here, so I'm closing this thread and we're moving on.