BCD160DN/BCD260DN: Programming DMR When Suspected Encrypted

[pb_lonny]

I have a frequency which for 15 years was plain analouge voice. It was very active. In 2015, it went silent for about 6 months. It then came back but with digital signals.

In 2017, another scanner user reported it was DMR and some information, this makes it appear it was DMR but not encrypted. I didn't have a DMR scanner at the time.

Over the past 8 years, I have had this frequency show up when scanning / searching with my analouge scanners (so can hear the noise but not decode it).

I now have a DMR scanner (BCD160DN) and have had this frequency programmed as "Digital Only" with Digital Code Search (Ch 2 below) In three weeks, it never stopped on this frequency. I then switched it to "All" (Ch 1 below). I now get the alert tone and display flash, while it waits the 400ms to decide if it is digital or not but still no audio. If I was to program it as analouge (Ch 3 below) will it stop and produce the digital noise or just skip over it?

Based on this, does it appear to now be DMR encrypted, DMR unencrypted or another mode? The scanner user who reported it as DMR with the information is not with us anymore and nobody locally seems to know. I want to make sure that if it is "scannable" I am not missing something in my setup or logic.

 

[wa8pyr]

Have you tried programming it as NXDN just to eliminate that as a possibility? If you have a scanner capable of P25, I'd give that a whirl as well, just to eliminate it also.

If DMR, NXDN and P25 don't work, it's either encrypted or it's some offbeat mode a scanner can't decode (unlikely for LMR).

 

[tvengr]

If DMR, NXDN and P25 don't work,

The BCD160DN and BCD260DN cannot decode P25.

 

[wa8pyr]

The BCD160DN and BCD260DN cannot decode P25.

I know that. That's why I said "if you have a scanner capable of P25."

Perhaps you should read more carefully next time.....

 

[belladog9651]

Have you looked at the Fcc license? It should tell you the digital mode.. Or can you post the location, and we can help?

 

[pb_lonny]

Have you tried programming it as NXDN just to eliminate that as a possibility? If you have a scanner capable of P25, I'd give that a whirl as well, just to eliminate it also.

If DMR, NXDN and P25 don't work, it's either encrypted or it's some offbeat mode a scanner can't decode (unlikely for LMR).

Thanks. I have set it for digital only, so if it is DMR or NXDN it should be decoded. I have tested it with a P25 scanner and no decode. So I am fairly sure it is not one of these modes.

Have you looked at the Fcc license? It should tell you the digital mode.. Or can you post the location, and we can help?

I am in Australia but the licence on the ACMA site (same as FCC in the USA) only shows analouge voice licencesed for this frequency. I have checked a few known DMR users and their licences shows this correctly.

Based on this:
- They are licensed for FM voice.
- They are using a digital mode.
- Previous evidence suggested this was DMR
- I suspect they are using encrypted DMR now.

Can the BCD160DN show on the screen if a frequency is encrypted? I know it can't be decoded but just knowing would be helpful.

 

[Ubbe]

Can the BCD160DN show on the screen if a frequency is encrypted? I know it can't be decoded but just knowing would be helpful.

Make a hold on that frequency and it should at least say if it's DMR, CAP, CON or XPT that it decodes even if it doesn't show ENC.

/Ubbe

 

[pb_lonny]

Thanks. I will give that a try.

 

[pb_lonny]

Follow-up / Outcome:

Thanks to everyone who offered input on this one, I did a bit more digging and managed to get a definitive answer.

After some further monitoring and checking with someone who has more up-to-date local knowledge, I can now confirm that the frequency moved to DMR with encryption around 2023/2024.

That explains the behaviour I was seeing:

• Older analogue scanners stopping on it = just hearing the raw digital burst
• My Uniden BCD160DN not stopping in Digital Only = no decodable (clear) DMR frames
• Switching to “All” and getting the brief detect delay = the scanner seeing a digital signal, but unable to decode audio
• No audio at all = consistent with encrypted DMR

So historically the timeline looks like:

• Pre-2015: Analogue voice
• ~2015: Migration period / downtime
• 2017: DMR (likely unencrypted at that point)
• 2023/2024: Transition to encrypted DMR

Conclusion:
There’s nothing wrong with my setup or programming, the signal is simply no longer monitorable.

Bit of a shame given how active it used to be, but at least that solves the mystery.

 

[Ubbe]

That explains the behaviour I was seeing:

How much information did you get from the 160? Did it say some flavour of DMR and did it say ENC while in hold mode?

/Ubbe

 

[pb_lonny]

How much information did you get from the 160? Did it say some flavour of DMR and did it say ENC while in hold mode?

/Ubbe

Nope, all I get is:
- Programmed as DMR = skips it and does not stop while scanning
- Programmed as ALL = 400ms stop, then nothing.
- Hold = Nothing at all.

 

[Ubbe]

The user manual at page 22 suggests that it tells what flavor of DMR it is but I then take it as being something left in from other user manuals and shouldn't had been in the manual for the 160.



Item 5
• CAP. Capacity Plus/Linked Capacity Plus site’s voice and data in MotoTRBO system.
• CON. Connect Plus site’s voice and data in MotoTRBO system.
• DT3. Trunked DMR site’s voice and data in ETSI Standard Tier 3 system.
• DMR. One frequency DMR site’s voice and data/ Simplex DMR voice.
• IDS. IDAS in NXDN system.
• ND4. NXDN 4800 Direct Frequency
• ND9. NXDN 9600 Direct Frequency
• NX4. NXDN 4800 NEXEDGE
• NX9. NXDN 9600 NEXEDGE
• NXD. Unknown NXDN system
• XPT. Hytera XPT site’s voice and data in MotoTRBO system.
• P25/DAT. Apco Project 25.The radio skips P25 signals when searching or scanning. NOTE: These display in the same place as the DMR icon in the illustration and also in conventional/search mode.

/Ubbe

 

[KevinC]

The user manual at page 22 suggests that it tells what flavor of DMR it is but I then take it as being something left in from other user manuals and shouldn't had been in the manual for the 160.

Just tested and my 160 displays the flavor of DMR.

 

[pb_lonny]

All I have ever seen is "DMR" in location 5. I suspect all the systems here are pretty basic. I do see the CC in location 2.