Question on Simulcast Systems

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Tattoooz

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Taylor, Michigan
I did a programmed search on my Pro-96 using these frequencies: Lo @ 851.575 and Hi @ 853.8375.

I can pick up many digital transmissions on many different frequencies in this range in the downriver area and Detroit area very clearly, however if I program the Downriver Mutual Aid Simulcast system into my Pro-96, I get nothing. No static or anything. I also cannot pick up anything on the Detroit simulcast system either. Same thing, silence. I live in Taylor and should be able to pick up something on these 2 systems. I can successfully receive the Northville and Flat Rock MPSCS systems with no problem.

Any ideas? I have read that the Pro96 has some problems with simulcast systems. Is this the case or is there a custom table I need to enter for these systems or a custom rebanded table?

I'm considering purchasing a new scanner and would also appreciate some advice in that area as well. I'm leaning towards the Whistler Trx-2, which appears to be able to handle anything I could throw at it within the downriver area, albeit encrypted comms of course.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Tattoooz
 

diskmonger

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Simulcast is indeed a big problem, most of the scanner makers refuse to produce a scanner that handles P25 simulcast properly. For Detroit you need to be either inside or close to the city, and even then it doesn't sound great.

The TRX-2 will probably do better than the PRO-96 but still, you might be a little too far away. Check out the the Unication G5's, they are fire pagers but you can program them to receive P25 systems and they handle simulcast perfectly. But, they are a little more money as well.
 

Tattoooz

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Location
Taylor, Michigan
Thanks Diskmonger

I will definitely check out the Unication G5's. Any idea what I might be picking up so clearly on the DG frequencies that I program searched? I entered the Lo and Hi of the Downriver system and was able to pick up transmissions that way.

Thanks for the heads up on the G5's!

Tattooz
 

ngreed

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Westland, MI
I did a programmed search on my Pro-96 using these frequencies: Lo @ 851.575 and Hi @ 853.8375.

I can pick up many digital transmissions on many different frequencies in this range in the downriver area and Detroit area very clearly, however if I program the Downriver Mutual Aid Simulcast system into my Pro-96, I get nothing. No static or anything. I also cannot pick up anything on the Detroit simulcast system either. Same thing, silence. I live in Taylor and should be able to pick up something on these 2 systems. I can successfully receive the Northville and Flat Rock MPSCS systems with no problem.

Any ideas? I have read that the Pro96 has some problems with simulcast systems. Is this the case or is there a custom table I need to enter for these systems or a custom rebanded table?

I'm considering purchasing a new scanner and would also appreciate some advice in that area as well. I'm leaning towards the Whistler Trx-2, which appears to be able to handle anything I could throw at it within the downriver area, albeit encrypted comms of course.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Tattoooz
You will need Win96 to program the Downriver system correctly.

Click on the "Extended Tables" and use the following information:

Low Chan 0
High Chan 4095
Offset 0
Base Frequency: 806.575
Step: 12.5

See this thread for more information:
http://forums.radioreference.com/michigan-radio-discussion-forum/235097-downriver-mutual-aid-project-25-trs-discussion-7.html#post2060583
 

drayd48

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Distortion is a big problems with scanners. As posted above, get a unication or a motorola trunking radios to fix distortion problems
 

N8DRC

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Distortion is a big problems with scanners. As posted above, get a unication or a motorola trunking radios to fix distortion problems
Mine has been fixed with a $30 yagi, go that route first before spending hundreds on a new radio..
 

cpetraglia

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Mine has been fixed with a $30 yagi, go that route first before spending hundreds on a new radio..
Agreed. I solved my LSM problem with an inexpensive Digital TV antenna pointed at my closest tower. You have to install it vertically polarized. Mine works great.
 

Tattoooz

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Nov 16, 2003
Messages
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Location
Taylor, Michigan
Question on Extended Tables

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I can see the radio tower from my house. I'm sure there is something I'm missing with the extended tables.

Question, should the adjustment to the tables be made in the MOT 3600 or MOT 9600 Tables or both for the Multi-Table setting? (See image background section upper right section)

Should any of the other options be checked under 3600 CC or 9600 CC after making the selection above, such as 800 MHz rebanded and under which heading 3600 or 9600?

Below is an image of the two screens I'm talking about.

http://forums.radioreference.com/attachments/radio-shack-scanners/44396d1390187787-pro-96-problem-screen-shot-2014-01-19-8.03.11-pm.png

Hope I'm clear enough here with the questions. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Todd
 

Johnnydollar2

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IL
? on Simulcast Systems

Nobody asked... what firmware you using in the Pro96? the very last and final one? U1.4? or has the scanner ever been updated? Press the #3 button at welcome screen for the DSP-U1.4 listing. Which is it? 1.1-2,3 or 1.4? HERE where I live, I didn't need to do any rebanding/tables garbage. I just did 1.3 and 1.4 updates which fixed things perfectly. YOU only have 3 choices in the setting you mention... TABLE, Multi-TABLE and Normal. NORMAL is the usual setting for a 9600 baud P25. So try all three settings. How to know baud of your system? easy... Manually punch in the Control channel you get from Radio REF database. IF it's receiving properly you should see the data on the CChannel. Look at the bottom and the control channel tells you if it's 3600 or 9600. It should be making that loud noise like an engine idling and displays all the data about the system below. Most likely it's 9600. Punching Program button, then TRUNK button puts you in the right setting to SAVE if it's 9600 or 3600. For 9600 baud you simply then press (function) and #4, then enter button. I'm a little surprised that the Pro96 has simulcast trouble, I can use ANY antenna with mine and it's a champ in keeping that signal compared to my WS1080. I can even use NO antenna and get it compared to the WS1080 which needs lots of help. ONE thing that can help is to (attenuate) the actual control channel itself manually. Then all the rest of the transmissions will act off of that. IF there IS simulcast trouble around you, that will help often. Everything you need is right at the RRef Pro96 wiki pages, including firmware download. I like ARC96 better than WIN96 for this scanner. Especially with ARC96's lengthy free trial. Also, someone gave you the proper stats
Low Chan 0
High Chan 4095
Offset 0
Base Frequency: 806.575
Step: 12.5
To find this setting manually on the scanner, press (Program-TRUNK, then Function and #2 button) the settings for base, step and all is there
Pro-96 - The RadioReference Wiki
 
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Tattoooz

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Nov 16, 2003
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Location
Taylor, Michigan
Johnnydollar2,

I'm running DSP 1.4. Thanks for the info on the baud rate that is now clear to me. I get nothing but silence when using the defaults of a standard P25 system as provided by Win96. I have no problem receiving our state P25 (non-simulcast) in a county further south than the simulcast I'm trying to receive as well as one further north, but nothing on the close proximity simulcast P25. I can pick up users of the P25 simulcast system (Downriver Mutual Aid) using conventional digital scanning. Some here say it's encrypted and I can understand some of the cities on the system being encrypted but all of them? I'll keep trying!

Thanks,

Tattoooz
 

Tattoooz

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Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
43
Location
Taylor, Michigan
You will need Win96 to program the Downriver system correctly.

Click on the "Extended Tables" and use the following information:

Low Chan 0
High Chan 4095
Offset 0
Base Frequency: 806.575
Step: 12.5
Nick,

I've entered the above info into my extended table; zero'd out the remaining rows correct? Still silence. Seems I have the right control channels programmed but getting 0% readout on the control channel. Maybe it is a new antenna I need, even though I live right on top of the tower????

Tattoooz
 

Tattoooz

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Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
43
Location
Taylor, Michigan
You will need Win96 to program the Downriver system correctly.

Click on the "Extended Tables" and use the following information:

Low Chan 0
High Chan 4095
Offset 0
Base Frequency: 806.575
Step: 12.5

See this thread for more information:
http://forums.radioreference.com/michigan-radio-discussion-forum/235097-downriver-mutual-aid-project-25-trs-discussion-7.html#post2060583
Nick,

One thing I did forget to ask. How does one determine, and know correctly, the Base Frequency for this system?

Thanks,

Tattoooz
 

kd8ati

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If you are sitting within eye sight of one of the towers my guess is there is a good chance your getting some multipath distortion, especially if you are using a true 800mhz rubber duck antenna. If you are that close to a tower try it without antenna... or with perhaps a paper clip to see if you can pickup anything that way. I can tell you the simulcast systems can be a PIA to pickup on anything except the newest models of scanners. I live just off 9 Mile and am unable to pickup the Detroit Simulcast on every scanner I have had except the latest models.
 

Tattoooz

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Nov 16, 2003
Messages
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Location
Taylor, Michigan
Thanks Kd8ati and this may be exactly what is happening. I'm using the factory antenna with this unit and nothing but silence no matter what settings I've changed. Drop into a conventional digital mode for the downriver frequency range and voila! So strange. I'll try some other antenna options.

Tattoooz
 

Tattoooz

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Nov 16, 2003
Messages
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Location
Taylor, Michigan
Nick,

That's what I figured. It has to be an antenna thing or the fact that I'm virtually sitting on top of the tower give or take. I tried the paperclip suggestion to no avail. Control channel is simply not picking anything up. Simply modulates between MO and DG, shows Baud Rate and an occasional quick flash of a TG ID, but no transmissions. I've seen a couple of antenna recommendations here. The Yagi and the Diamond SRH519 seem to be favorites for the Pro96 along with the RS800. Any experience with any of these Nick?

Tattoooz
 

ngreed

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Sep 19, 2007
Messages
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Location
Westland, MI
I have a J-Pole that I got off eBay, it is only internal hanging on the wall next to my scanner, but it seems to work well. I do not have experience with either of those antenna's that you mentioned.
 
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