Questions for Orange County listeners

[kma371]

For starters, its very clear what GGV SILVER 1 is. All it takes is a little education about the system to get to know what color designations are to learn its Garden Grove Public Works. This color education info can be added either on the Db page directly or in a Wiki if more appropriate.

And Silver is what listeners whether novice or expert would hear on the radio. If you want to argue for the benefit of the novice user especially, they are the ones that will be confused the most if they hear something on the radio that says "switch to Silver-1" and lo and behold there is nothing such downloaded into their scanner that says Silver-1. I certainly don't expect users have to print out screen shots of the Db so they can read the description fields, when the Color info can be nicely contained in the Alpha Tag.

Now as far as the Db, if you really want to dig deep, you'll see some of the most common alpha tag descriptions include very common Blue 1,2,3, or Red 1,2,3 listings in city after city and state after state. I know as I travel the nation for work and download info regularly and see this. Using Blue or Red alpha tags make sense when system users are set up this way and this is exactly what scanner listeners will hear.

At the end of the day, IMO, leaving the color info in Alpha field is quite logical when it comes to CCCS as that is how the system is utilized and is what listeners will hear. It nicely aligns actual system set up with the nomenclature scanner listener will hear

It's not about the little education needed, its some joe schmo that comes to Anaheim that wants to plug in this system into his scanner. Having 50 Silver talkgroups isn't helpful AT ALL. I'm just suggesting modifying the alpha tags, and descriptions, without losing what's there. Nothing has been left out. It's all still there. It's just a format that's a little different.

As far at the DB being different other places, well you can take it up with that states DB Admin. You won't find listings like that here in California. That's because I've taken the time and effort to get rid of that stuff because that's what the guide says.

 

[kma371]

So, I have modified just the Brea talkgroups for now so everyone can better see and agree if that is to everyone else's liking. See...still discussion going on and still asking for people's input.

 

[marcotor]

Edit: I just looked, and like very much the new layout

Sort of a cart and horse problem, isn't it?

GRE/RS/Whistler SD based scanners that utilize the database use the actual tag.

Uniden HP and x36 scanners use the description as the "alpha tag".

So, on a HP or x36 I might see
------
Coordinated System (CCCS)
Public Works (Silver)
Yorba Linda
(and in smaller type Public Works 39776)
-------
Yet on on my Pro-18, 668 or 1098
ORCO CCCS
SILVER-1

Unless I make a playlist for each city with it's TG in the playlist

And yet, on my 996P2 I would see

Countywide (alternating with Public Works)
SILVER-1

unless I took the time to set up my own groups and tags (which I generally do, as the tags themselves
are useless)

So while I do not have a magic answer, I am not so full of myself to assume no one wants to listen to the Silver, Aqua, Pink, or Tan talkgroups. There must be a happy middle.

Why not use the suggestion for the Green, Silver, Pink, and Aqua groups add the 3 letter city code? NPB AQUA-1 is sure a lot more descriptive than AQUA-1. Of course you run into limitations with Uniden non SD (20 group limit) and Whistler (no sub groups, make your own playlist)

I assume that was what your question was all about in the first place

 

[kma371]

I don't think personally attacking anyone is going to do any good.

 

[Markb]

I like the look of the Brea section. I think that will work nicely for most people. I get that some will want to edit tags and labels to their liking, but to me this looks like a solid foundation.

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[inigo88]

Hey guys,

I wanted to get a solid understanding of what the real system alpha tags are on CCCS, but it was difficult since the OC public works communications guide isn't public.

I knew that all the PDs didn't simply have "Green-1" as their alpha tags... otherwise how would local PDs scan each other? How would the air units know which Green-1 to go to for which city? What do the dispatcher's Motorola Centracom radio screens say?

After much digging, I found this document from Garden Grove PD which explains their radio fleetmap: https://ch.ci.garden-grove.ca.us/internet/pd_web/Ch13.pdf

As you can see, Garden Grove PD is able to scan Westminster PD's Green-1 and Santa Ana PD's Green-1. Note that they use the format of "[color]-[ch number] [3-letter city code]". Santa Ana PD 1 is "Green-1 STA", and Westminster PD 1 is "Green-1 WST".

I notice the database has been edited with "ANA" for Santa Ana, while the actual system uses "STA". I think we should stick with STA and try to follow the official abbreviations for consistency, when available.

Here are some additional screenshots of documents containing official CCCS alpha tags, along with their documents of origin:

Source: http://www.socalpsd.org/uploads/2/8/8/4/2884374/may_2011.pdf

Source: http://www.ocsd.com/Home/ShowDocument?id=12376

Since there are a ton of SILVER-1 talkgroups, here's an example of how they're broken up in the HCA Environmental Health radio (from an OCSD CCCS training presentation). Some examples:

SLV-1-HCA
SLV-TA-HCA
SLV-1-EMS
SLV-2-EMS
SLV-1-OCE
SLV-TA-OCE

From the same OCSD training powerpoint (above), here are some additional talkgroup alpha tag examples (low res so excuse any typos):

ADMIN
RED
DSP-DSP
OA-1 (?)
OA-2 (?)
WEROC (?)
MED-10
SILVER-1-OCTA
SILVER-1 COM
SILVER-1 PWM (?)
SILVER-1 OCA
SILVER-1 OCE
SILVER-1-PFR (?)
SILVER-2-PFR (?)
SILVER-3-PFR (?)
SILVER-5 FAC
SILVER-6 THP (?)
SILVER-T-PDSD
SILVER-TA2-EMS (?)

Like I said, understanding how the county organizes CCCS talkgroups is a good first step in deciding how to present them in the database. Obviously a bunch of repeated color and number channels wouldn't do any good if you leave the original city, work in the dispatch center or rove between cities (like the air units do), so it's no surprise that the county actually uses a combination of color, channel number and city or department abbreviation.

More to follow...

 

[scottyhetzel]

Nice work indigo,

On the visor card subject...

What is bar ? Located in the ORC section...

What is RP? In the top right? Response ?

Thanks in advance

 

[Markb]

If I am looking in the same spot, it's "Bat" as in batallion.

RP is the abbreviation denoting a repeated conventional channel.

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[brandon]

Picture of Orange County radio.

I like the idea of using the 3 letter city identifiers in the database as well

 

[inigo88]

Picture of Orange County radio.

I like the idea of using the 3 letter city identifiers in the database as well

Very nice, thanks for sharing. Based on the Garden Grove PD plan I figured the primary agency was probably just Green-1, Green-2, etc, while any adjacent adjency greens were accompanied by the 3 letter city abbreviation. Personally, I think "[3 letter city code] PD GRN1" is the way to go. It manages to fit the city, department, color and channel number into the 12 character alpha tag limit. We had a similarly difficult time with CHP in the database, and looking at the real channel alpha tags CHP programs in their statewide radio plan led us (me for a lot of it lol) to a similar solution. I think the same approach is necessary on CCCS.

Edit: It looks like kma371 beat me to it and came to the same conclusion based on the edits to the dB.

 

[Fireboat03]

I have a pretty honest question. Why do we even have encrypted talkgroups in the RR database?

The reason why I ask is because we keep talking about primary and adjacent agencies alpha tags with regards to LE in Orange County. This has no bearing on where we are going and how the Orange County fleet map pertains to the scanning community.

I am just trying to wrap my mind around encrypted talkgroups and the scanning community anymore. Just have frequencies and talkgroups that are relevant to enter into scanners. If the talkgroup is not in the database then of course its no concern to the community or anybody like Joe Smo that visits Orange County - San Bernardino - Riverside and all surrounding counties anymore.

 

[oracavon]

I have a pretty honest question. Why do we even have encrypted talkgroups in the RR database?

The reason why I ask is because we keep talking about primary and adjacent agencies alpha tags with regards to LE in Orange County. This has no bearing on where we are going and how the Orange County fleet map pertains to the scanning community.

I am just trying to wrap my mind around encrypted talkgroups and the scanning community anymore. Just have frequencies and talkgroups that are relevant to enter into scanners. If the talkgroup is not in the database then of course its no concern to the community or anybody like Joe Smo that visits Orange County - San Bernardino - Riverside and all surrounding counties anymore.

One answer is that some of us scan the system in Search mode to look for talkgroups that may not be in the database (I've found a few), or that we may have overlooked, or to see how active they are, or to see which ones are on which site, or whatever. I would like to be able identify the talkgroups that pop up, even though I can't listen to them. Having them in the RR database allows me to do that.

 

[MtnBiker2005]

Scanner users can use software that pulls the RR database into the software database. Those 'encrypted' talkgroups name can be displayed on the Trunker/Unitrunker/Pro96com software or any other software using the RR Web Service.
http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/RadioReference.com_Web_Service

I have a pretty honest question. Why do we even have encrypted talkgroups in the RR database?

 

[AA6IO]

Just looked at some of the changes for OC in the database. They look pretty good to me and seem much better in identifying what is what.

 

[marcotor]

I have a quick question about the format of the Tags.

Why is Huntington Beach Silver - HTB PW SIL1
But Huntington Beach Aqua - HB Lifeguard
Or the mother of all hard to read tags - UCIrvineHosp

I am not challenging the naming convention, but one of the things that sets me to hours of editing is the inconsistent nature of the case used in RR tags (and not limited to OC at all).
And yes, I know I can change it easily in the various ARC versions, but not so easily done with Whistler/RS or Uniden SD based units.

Nitpick aside, I am really impressed by the new way it is laid out and want to applaud the effort.

 

[kma371]

I have a quick question about the format of the Tags.

Why is Huntington Beach Silver - HTB PW SIL1
But Huntington Beach Aqua - HB Lifeguard
Or the mother of all hard to read tags - UCIrvineHosp

I am not challenging the naming convention, but one of the things that sets me to hours of editing is the inconsistent nature of the case used in RR tags (and not limited to OC at all).
And yes, I know I can change it easily in the various ARC versions, but not so easily done with Whistler/RS or Uniden SD based units.

Nitpick aside, I am really impressed by the new way it is laid out and want to applaud the effort.

I modified it to the standard city names but there isn't much space.

Changed ICIrvineHosp to UCI MC

 

[Fireboat03]

Interesting way of looking at the other side of the coin. I guess this is where the hobby will meet the rubber in the road very soon. Buy a scanner, load Procom96 and just watch talkgroups popup on the TRS and hear silence.

Hey whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

[oracavon]

Interesting way of looking at the other side of the coin. I guess this is where the hobby will meet the rubber in the road very soon. Buy a scanner, load Procom96 and just watch talkgroups popup on the TRS and hear silence.

Hey whatever floats your boat I guess.

That's not the way it works. Weird that you would even think of that - I certainly wouldn't. I presume you mean Pro96com, but I don't use it. The talkgroup ID appears on the radio display. In search mode, all talkgroups are received, so I'm not listening to silence - I'm receiving the analog and unencrypted talkgroups with full audio. When an encrypted talkgroup pops up, I can identify it and lock it out, allowing the search to continue to look for more unencrypted talkgroups.

 

[bmendez]

You should add back 2K for metronnet they still use that but when all the frequencys are back up they will use it also metrinet use all 1b for drills and planning stuff and also you are missing 5g for lugnana Beach tactical and 5j belongs to orange conty fire

 

[Markb]

Also, the 1-A and 1-B TG's for each city would be best located under each city with the Greens, silvers and pinks. Also, the city FD's have their city's pink TG as 1-C. Can that be added to the notes for each TG at least or make the TG tags "1C ANA PINK" for example ?

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