Rebanding in Sacramento or Roseville

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dougr1252

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Nextel is still on lots of frequencies btw 851-854, so the overall noise level is probably even worse for the systems that have rebanded. At least it's temporary ...


as mark said - it depends on what sites are near you
i mentioned nextel because nextel has historically been the cause of most of the interference (but not the sole source)
 

scannerboy02

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A big difference with the Uniden and the GRE/Radio Shack radios is that with the Unidens you MUST program the "city" and "county" frequencies as separate systems (or sites on the newer radios).

I found the best way to do this is to program one system and put in the "city" frequencies and all the TG's (both city and county) I want and then copy that system and delete all the "city" frequencies and put in the "county" frequencies. You can then control what you want to hear on each system by turning on and off the sub-banks.

On the newer radios all you need to do is program one system with two sites, one with the "city" frequencies and one with the "county" frequencies and the radio will then share the system TG's among the two sites.
 
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NWtoSFO

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So, tell me if I'm doing more harm (to my listening pleasure) than good;
I've got an RS Pro-162 (20 banks) and have the county system spread through 3 banks and the city system in two banks. County is bank 0 Sac Metro, bank 3 is LE south of the river, bank 4 is LE north of the river and banks 1-2 split Sac FD/PD. I almost never listen to Metro Fire and SSD at the same time, and I am rarely interested in events in Elk Grove or RC, so I split them up. Should I keep the county system in one bank (fire and LE) and the city in another? Does it make much difference?
 

gmclam

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How scanners trunk track

So, tell me if I'm doing more harm (to my listening pleasure) than good;
I've got an RS Pro-162 (20 banks) and have the county system spread through 3 banks and the city system in two banks.
I'd have to look at how that scanner works, as it is made by Uniden and not GRE. But I am fairly certain they work the same way and you are missing stuff.

County is bank 0 Sac Metro, bank 3 is LE south of the river, bank 4 is LE north of the river and banks 1-2 split Sac FD/PD. I almost never listen to Metro Fire and SSD at the same time, and I am rarely interested in events in Elk Grove or RC, so I split them up.
Well, if you only have the same control channel turned on ONCE, then it is not a problem. You miss calls when the same control channel is activated in more than one bank at the same time. Let me explain ....

I don't quite understand what you have in what banks, but I'll give an example that I think is close. Let's say you have County in bank 0 ON and Sac LE ON in bank 4 at the same time. They are using the same control channel, but each bank has a different selection of TG IDs.

The scanner is in bank 0, it detects a TG ID from CHPD. That TG is not in bank 0 so the call is ignored. Eventually the scanner gets to bank 4. The data for the prior call is long gone, now it detects a TG ID for SSD 1. That TG is not in bank 4 so the call is ignored.

The thing about TG ID transmissions is that they are not continuous. Some do repeat, but many do not. I've found that fire dispatch calls are repeated the most, but general LE traffic is not. You can test this condition easily. Turn on ONE bank in your scanner (in theory only one channel is on, the channel with the active control channel). Press SCAN and wait for a call. When the call starts to talk (the scanner is on the voice channel) press SCAN. Does the scanner immediately return to the same call? It would if it were a conventional channel, but usually does not if it is a trunked channel.

Should I keep the county system in one bank (fire and LE) and the city in another? Does it make much difference?
Put the city sites in one bank and the county sites in another bank. My (GRE) scanners use sub-groups to help manage TGs. That is how a user is supposed to select what they want to hear on a TRS, not via banks. I have Sac PD in one sub-group because I don't monitor them 24/7. I have 2 sub-groups of fire, 1 sub-group for Sac Sheriff and 1 sub-group for other LE. Additionally individual TGs can be locked out.

My newer scanners can hold 150 TGs per bank. If you want to listen to more than 150 TGs, perhaps you should be in ID search mode (open on GRE scanners). The newer scanners (like the PSR-300) also let you run an open bank and list TGs to ignore, another way to get past the 150 TG limit.

While these things can be programmed in many different ways, there is really only one best way which facilitates how you want to monitor. Unfortunately that best way does not always make it easy to turn stuff on and off. Another reason to run multiple scanners.
 

NWtoSFO

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Many times I do run two scanners. On the 162, I rarely listen to two of my county banks. If I listen to Sac Metro, I'm not usually listening to anything else. I have Metro dedicated to its own bank. I will probably put all of the county's LE's in its own bank and just lockout sub-banks. I never remember what's in each sub-bank from scanner to scanner, though.
 

gmclam

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I never remember what's in each sub-bank from scanner to scanner, though.
I program all of my scanners exactly the same when possible, that makes it easier to remember. Funny, the toughest thing for me to remember these days is which crystals I have in which positions of my two 20 channel crystal controlled scanners. I guess alpha tags have made me lazy.
 

crucialcolin

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So what I'm thinking of doing is programing the city frequencies and talkgroups into a city system(bank) then separately a county system(bank) with its frequencies and talkgroups on my uniden BC246T.
Scanner calls it systems btw.

Right now I have all of the SRRCS frequencies and talkgroups programed into a single system(bank) on my scanner.

I'm assuming i would be better off this way since I manly monitor County stuff like CHPD, and sheriff because of my location in Roseville?
 

scannerboy02

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Here is a example of how I have my Pro-95's programmed. I run 4 Pro-95's that are all programmed the same but I turn on and off the banks and sub-banks to hear what I want on each radio.

Bank 0 - "county" system
Sub Bank 0 - Fire A
Sub Bank 1 - Fire B
Sub Bank 2 - Fire C
Sub Bank 3 - Fire D
Sub Bank 4 - Fire T

Bank 1 - "city" system
Sub Bank 0 - Fire A
Sub Bank 1 - Fire B
Sub Bank 2 - Fire C
Sub Bank 3 - Fire D
Sub Bank 4 - Fire T

Bank 2 - "county" system
Sub Bank 0 - SSD
Sub Bank 1 - SSD
Sub Bank 2 - SSD
Sub Bank 3 - SSD
Sub Bank 4 - SSD

Bank 3 - "city" system
Sub Bank 0 - SSD
Sub Bank 1 - SSD
Sub Bank 2 - SSD
Sub Bank 3 - SSD
Sub Bank 4 - SSD

Bank 4 - "county" system
Sub Bank 0 - SPD
Sub Bank 1 - SPD
Sub Bank 2 - SPD
Sub Bank 3 - SPD
Sub Bank 4 - SPD

Bank 5 - "city" system
Sub Bank 0 - SPD
Sub Bank 1 - SPD
Sub Bank 2 - SPD
Sub Bank 3 - SPD
Sub Bank 4 - SPD

Bank 6 - "county" system
Sub Bank 0 - CHPD
Sub Bank 1 - EGPD
Sub Bank 2 - FPD
Sub Bank 3 - WSFD
Sub Bank 4 - WSPD

Bank 7 - "city" system
Sub Bank 0 - CHPD
Sub Bank 1 - EGPD
Sub Bank 2 - FPD
Sub Bank 3 - WSFD
Sub Bank 4 - WSPD

Bank 8 - "county" system
Sub Bank 0 - Parks
Sub Bank 1 - Hospitals
Sub Bank 2 - FSP
Sub Bank 3 - CoTacs
Sub Bank 4 - CyTacs

Bank 9 - "city" system
Sub Bank 0 - Parks
Sub Bank 1 - Hospitals
Sub Bank 2 - FSP
Sub Bank 3 - CoTacs
Sub Bank 4 - CyTacs
 

scannerboy02

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Right now I have all of the SRRCS frequencies and talkgroups programed into a single system(bank) on my scanner.
This may be exactly why you are having issues with the SRRCS. The Unidens WILL NOT track both sites in the same bank/system. The Uniden will only track the first control channel it receives so if you are just barely picking up the "city" control channel it will lock on that site and sound terrible.
 
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crucialcolin

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hrm I just realized(looking at the manual) I could lock out certain groups of channels using function + 7/Rcl which are assigned sub hot keys. Only thought I could lock out things I assigned to regular Hot keys before without having to go into the programing menu.

That makes me feel like leaving it all one system with all frequencies and talkgroups. Then just disable what I don't normally listen too instead of two systems.

But since it causes issues with unidens I guess I'll separate them. Now to scavenge together an old pc with a serial port so I can use freescan because no way am I going to reprogram all those talkgroups manually lol
 
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gmclam

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Programming for the Sacramento area

And the way Scannerboy has his PRO-95s programmed, if more than one city bank or more than one county bank is on at the same time, he WILL miss calls.

I have my scanners all programmed as follows:

Bank 4 = City
sub-group 0 = Sacramento City PD, Elk Grove PD, Twin Rivers PD
sub-group 1 = West Sac PD, CH PD, Folsom PD
sub-group 2 = Park Rangers, SSD
sub-group 3 = SSD, WS Fire, Airport Fire
sub-group 4 = A Fire, B Fire

Bank 5 = County
sub-group 0 = Sacramento City PD, Elk Grove PD, Twin Rivers PD
sub-group 1 = West Sac PD, CH PD, Folsom PD
sub-group 2 = Park Rangers, SSD
sub-group 3 = SSD, WS Fire, Airport Fire
sub-group 4 = A Fire, B Fire

Bank 6 = Roseville and conventional LE

I generally leave sub-group 0 in bank 5 off because when I really want to hear that traffic, I'll enable bank 4; but that depends on where I am.

My focus is fire, not LE. So I made sure to have Fire only mixed with stuff I am highly unlikely to want to turn off. Since I live in the county, my highest priority LE is SSD.
 

scannerboy02

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And the way Scannerboy has his PRO-95s programmed, if more than one city bank or more than one county bank is on at the same time, he WILL miss calls.
This is correct and is the main reason why I run 4 Pro-95's, as well as 3 other Uniden radios scanning the SRRCS.
Radio 1
Bank 0
Bank 1

Radio 2
Bank 2
Bank 3

Radio 3
Bank 4
Bank 5

Radio 4
Bank 6
Bank 7
Bank 8
Bank 9

I have found that with the number of TG's in the SRRCS you will always miss calls so the best way to avoid this is to run multiple radios.
 
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dougr1252

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How do you use sub-groups with GRE scanners?

Put the city sites in one bank and the county sites in another bank. My (GRE) scanners use sub-groups to help manage TGs. That is how a user is supposed to select what they want to hear on a TRS, not via banks. I have Sac PD in one sub-group because I don't monitor them 24/7. I have 2 sub-groups of fire, 1 sub-group for Sac Sheriff and 1 sub-group for other LE. Additionally individual TGs can be locked out.
 

crucialcolin

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Just finished redoing my setup. I have a lot in my scanner. This is how I have it now:
System 1 = Roseville (hotkey 1)
Group 1 = Police
Group 2 = Fire
Group 3 = Municipal Service

System 2 = Rocklin (hot key 2)
Group 1 = Police
Group 2 = Fire

System 3 = Placer County (hot key 3)
Group 1 = Sheriff
Group 2 = Fire/EMS

System 3 = Lincoln (hot key 3)
Group 1 = Police
Group 2 = Fire/EMS

System 4 = Auburn (hot key 3)
Group 1 = Police
Group 2 = Fire/EMS

System 5 = Sac County (hot key 4)
Group 1 = CHPD
Group 2 = Sheriff
Group 3 = County Fire
Group 4 = Elk Grove PD
Group 5 = West Sac Police
Group 6 = West Sac Fire

System 6 = Sac City (hot key 5)
Group 1 = Police
Group 2 = Fire

System 7 = Cal Fire (hot key 6)
Group 1 = Camino ICC
Group 2 = Mariposa ECC
Group 3 = Oroville ECC
Group 4 = Statewide CMDs
Group 5 = Statewide Tacs
Group 6 = Statewide Air
Group 7 = Interop

System 8 = CHP Valley Div C (hot key 7)
Group 1 = Sac Dispatch
Group 2 = Chico Dispatch
Group 3 = Truckee Dispatch
Group 4 = Division-Wide
Group 5 = Remote Links

System 9 = Nevada County (hot key 8)
Group 1 = Sheriff
Group 2 = Fire/EMS
Group 3 = Grass Valley PD

System 10 = El Dorado County (hot key 9)
Group 1 = Sheriff
Group 2 = Fire/EMS
Group 3 = S. Lake Tahoe

System 11 = Sutter County (hot key 9)
Group 1 = Sheriff
Group 2 = Fire/EMS

System 12 = Yuba County (hot key 9)
Group 1 = Sheriff
Group 2 = Fire/EMS

All but Roseville and Sacramento are Conventional of course. Also don't know why I still have CHP as I don't really listen anyways. Most of them were from when I was using my telescopic whip all the time. I listen to mainly Roseville and some sac stuff so I use a RS 800 about 99% of the time.
 

gmclam

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sub-groups

How do you use sub-groups with GRE scanners?
It depends on the exact scanner. The PRO-97 and PSR-300 are organized as 5 sub groups of 30 TGs, for 150 TGs total per bank. The sub-groups are numbered 0 to 4.

So in bank 4, the TGs are in 'slots' 4-0-0 to 4-0-29 for the first sub group. While in that bank, press FUNC T to go to the TG editor/viewer. You can press T to advance to each sub-group. Note the "ON" or "OFF" on the end of the first line of the display. Press FUNC 1 to toggle that sub-group on/off.
 

scannerboy02

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So in bank 4, the TGs are in 'slots' 4-0-0 to 4-0-29 for the first sub group. While in that bank, press FUNC T to go to the TG editor/viewer. You can press T to advance to each sub-group. Note the "ON" or "OFF" on the end of the first line of the display. Press FUNC 1 to toggle that sub-group on/off.
And this is why I prefer Uniden radios ;), they may be a little more deaf than GRE/Radio Shack but they hold more TG's and doing the above on a Uniden is FUNC+sub-bank number key.
 

gmclam

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And this is why I prefer Uniden radios ;), they may be a little more deaf than GRE/Radio Shack but they hold more TG's and doing the above on a Uniden is FUNC+sub-bank number key.
It would be nice to have ease of operation but reception is more important to me. I like the idea of having hot keys too -- the newer object oriented scanners like the PRO-500 are not bank and sub-group oriented.
 

scannerboy02

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It would be nice to have ease of operation but reception is more important to me.
With VHF/UHF conventional frequencies I can definitely tell the difference between Uniden and GRE/RS but when it comes to 800MHz trunking in the Sacramento area I get the same basic performance from both brands connected to outside antennas.

I like the idea of having hot keys too -- the newer object oriented scanners like the PRO-500 are not bank and sub-group oriented.
Uniden started this with the 246t in 2004.
 

NWtoSFO

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I have a Uniden as well, but it's non trunking, so it does me little good for my area. I do like the sub-groups, though. The Pro-97 was my first scanner, so it's near and dear to me, but since Roseville went dead on it, I almost always pick up my Pro-162 when I listen to anything. My 162 has 10 sub-groups of 10 id's each in each bank. My sub-groups are numbered 0-9, so it ends up being totally different than my 97.
 

gmclam

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Roseville after rebanding

I have a Uniden as well, but it's non trunking, so it does me little good for my area. ... The Pro-97 ...since Roseville went dead on it...
What you can do is program in the 11 frequencies and set them to FM mode. Each night when the control channel changes you'll have to lock out the new one and unlock the old one. Roseville has such little traffic that you should not have much problem in just "scanning" the frequencies, instead of trunk tracking them. The only issue I see is when public works is really active or there is an active fire (or training) going on.
 
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