Registration; RID=1 REFUSED

[ki4hyf]

I've been seeing several "Registration; RID=1 REFUSED" entries when monitoring our state's (TACN) system. I've been looking for it to try to affiliate, but so far, I haven't seen any attempts. Is that normal? I figured it's a failed attempt to NAS, so I'm wondering why no affiliation attempts. I'm just glad they didn't try to choose a valid RID.

Is it possible they couldn't figure out how to program the conventional/trunking pairing, and have no groups programmed? I'm pretty sure whoever it is, they are in for a very rude awakening.

 

[talviar]

basically means the radio ID 1 is not enabled in the system controller. Radio has to affiliate first before a TG affiliation if I remember correctly

 

[GTR8000]

Subscribers have to register on the system before they can affiliate with a talkgroup. You're seeing that registration attempt being denied, so no chance at affiliation. "NAS" is a misnomer when it comes to P25 systems; more accurate name would be non-registration scan.

 

[KE4ZNR]

I've been seeing several "Registration; RID=1 REFUSED" entries when monitoring our state's (TACN) system. I've been looking for it to try to affiliate, but so far, I haven't seen any attempts. Is that normal? I figured it's a failed attempt to NAS, so I'm wondering why no affiliation attempts. I'm just glad they didn't try to choose a valid RID.

Is it possible they couldn't figure out how to program the conventional/trunking pairing, and have no groups programmed? I'm pretty sure whoever it is, they are in for a very rude awakening.

A radio has to register on the system before it can affiliate. Those of us that manage radio systems have RID 1 setup so that it can not register on the system. We also have other tools to monitor which RIDs might need to be looked at further or inhibited.

 

[KE4ZNR]

Subscribers have to register on the system before they can affiliate with a talkgroup. You're seeing that registration attempt being denied, so no chance at affiliation. "NAS" is a misnomer when it comes to P25 systems; more accurate name would be non-registration scan.

There you go again living rent free in my head posting exactly the same thing I did

 

[KevinC]

Radios need to register before they can affiliate.

Just thought I'd join the club.

 

[ki4hyf]

That makes perfect sense. Thank you all of you for the explanation.

 

[KE4ZNR]

Radios need to register before they can affiliate.

Just thought I'd join the club.

Just like MTUG make sure you pay your membership dues. This club ain't free

 

[MTS2000des]

I have RID 1 set to inhibit in RCM with alias set to CLONED RADIO and S/N field says ILLEGAL in PM.

 

[nikronzo]

Every once in a while a legit cloned/drag n dropped radio sneaks past that someone forgot to put on the system key and the ID and or TGs all get set to 1 and then the user unknowingly attempts to use the radio and gets hell denied out of them.

 

[GTR8000]

I have RID 1 set to inhibit in RCM with alias set to CLONED RADIO and S/N field says ILLEGAL in PM.

Cool, except that we recently learned that Unication pagers will inexplicably respond to inhibit commands. This caused a big issue when an entire block of G5's that were left with the default ID of 1 (because why would you care about the ID of a receive-only device) were all stunned at the same time while trying to zap some schmuck using ID 1 with a rouge radio. No bueno. So while it's probably a badge of honor in very small circles for some admins to pound their chests at being so badass with GenWatch and queued inhibit commands, once in a while common sense should prevail and unintended consequences should be considered.

Just set ID 1 to No Voice Service in PM and be done with it.

 

[UAT_978]

I have RID 1 set to inhibit in RCM with alias set to CLONED RADIO and S/N field says ILLEGAL in PM.

This is precicely why I do not set any of my NAS (NRS if you will) radios to ID: 1.

 

[MTS2000des]

Cool, except that we recently learned that Unication pagers will inexplicably respond to inhibit commands. This caused a big issue when an entire block of G5's that were left with the default ID of 1 (because why would you care about the ID of a receive-only device) were all stunned at the same time while trying to zap some schmuck using ID 1 with a rouge radio. No bueno. So while it's probably a badge of honor in very small circles for some admins to pound their chests at being so badass with GenWatch and queued inhibit commands, once in a while common sense should prevail and unintended consequences should be considered.

Just set ID 1 to No Voice Service in PM and be done with it.

We don't use Unication pagers. Sounds like Unication needs to correct their firmware. Meanwhile, all the whackers with their YouTube cloned BS radios start posting here and quite frankly, it's too much fun so why bother creating a TG/MG profile for no voice (if you're authorized on the system, you get voice).

Common sense here is we are more concerned about unauthorized transmitters than some buggy firmware passive receivers. Again, maybe the engineers at Unication should take a queue from Relm. They had the same issue with KNG's set to RX only and they corrected their issue in both their firmware and their software.

 

[KevinC]

Cool, except that we recently learned that Unication pagers will inexplicably respond to inhibit commands. This caused a big issue when an entire block of G5's that were left with the default ID of 1 (because why would you care about the ID of a receive-only device) were all stunned at the same time while trying to zap some schmuck using ID 1 with a rouge radio. No bueno. So while it's probably a badge of honor in very small circles for some admins to pound their chests at being so badass with GenWatch and queued inhibit commands, once in a while common sense should prevail and unintended consequences should be considered.

Just set ID 1 to No Voice Service in PM and be done with it.

I wonder what happens if you uncheck enable SUID?

 

[GTR8000]

why bother creating a TG/MG profile for no voice

It would be a Radios Capability Profile, not a TG/MG profile, and you don't even need to go that far. Voice Enabled is literally a parameter in PM for IV&D subscribers.

 

[MTS2000des]

It would be a Radios Capability Profile, not a TG/MG profile, and you don't even need to go that far. Voice Enabled is literally a parameter in PM for IV&D subscribers.

View attachment 174314

Right but why would we knowingly keep a compromised ID alive? If an ID is known to be cloned, we add it to inhibit list in RCM in passive, and assign a new ID to the legitimate subscriber and watch for any further BS in GW/ZW. We've do this for all known compromised IDs not just "hacker whacker" ID 1.

 

[UAT_978]

Right but why would we knowingly keep a compromised ID alive? If an ID is known to be cloned, we add it to inhibit list in RCM in passive, and assign a new ID to the legitimate subscriber and watch for any further BS in GW/ZW. We've do this for all known compromised IDs not just "hacker whacker" ID 1.

Correct. As a system manager, my job was to keep the system integrity secure, not to make accomodations for radios outside of our network.

It was never a thought in my mind of "Gee I hope this cloned ID isnt used on someones NAS radio so I shouldnt inhibit it". If an ID showed up in the manager that wasnt one of ours, it was inhibited. If others happened to use that ID on legit radios, there is ZERO way I would know that.

As for Unication, why they chose to do anything with the inhibit packet is beyond me except that maybe they wanted a way to shut off stolen system pagers. Since they can be keyloaded, If our users had them I would like a way to shut them off just as I would a two-way radio that was lost/stolen.

These are the risks you take when you program any commercial radio that can be inhibited. I include Unication in that now as these devices were not marketed as scanners, but as system pagers that just happen to be able to be used as scanners.

 

[jake_Braker]

The Unication issue is one I haven't heard of. Where would a user go to change that ID to avoid an issue like that?

 

[UAT_978]

It's on each P25 system.

 

[RaleighGuy]

I wonder what happens if you uncheck enable SUID?

The Unication issue is one I haven't heard of. Where would a user go to change that ID to avoid an issue like that?

It's on each P25 system.View attachment 174984

So, can it just be turned off or does it need to be changed?