Retevis Retevis 900MHz license-free radio

[gman1971]

By some... you mean, Most? As in, most of those CCR radios are inferior to even radios that were made in the 80s... ? I've tested nearly every CCR made to date, with an ISOTEE, these things are just pretty polished turds.

25 years ago there wasn't the explosion of RF noise that we've had in the last decade, wifi, cell towers, etc...

Its not the receiver design or sensitivity what really matters, really. Most receivers today can hear down to -130 dBm easily... plenty of sensitivity, its the ability to reject all the unwanted noise/signals around the desired frequencies what matters the most, especially now. That is where most of these CCRs fall way sort. Most of those CCRs, when connected directly to the Service Monitor, they perform just as good as the best XPR7550e... once you take them out and run the ISOTEE test, you have a massive 30 dB desense, those 'things' are garbage.

Hytera is one of the better CCRs no doubt, but it just so happens they stole Motorola engineering designs, processes, etc... so of course they are better. I suspect there is also IP theft/sharing between Anytone and Hytera too... b/c there are uncanny similarities between their radio interfaces... who knows.

G.

There's no mystery to 900Mhz FHSS, and you don't need an expensive sophisticated superhet design - direct sampling is most often employed. I used to write firmware for 900Mhz RFID interrogators - the high speed tollway type. If I can pickup backscatter at 100mph, you can bet that it's gonna be a lot easier job for something purpose designed for communications. This was 25 years ago.

Although some Chinese radios are indeed cheaply (or rather, poorly) built, not all and not even most. The fact is, technology, especially *digital* technology amortizes itself *way* faster than way you'd think - and *that's* why we have so many inexpensive radios. Of course, all the big LMR players have their radios built where labor is cheap - and there's not all that much new under the analog sun, and there's little incentive for Chinese companies to *not* copy designs. Who can blame them? You exploit their cheap labor to sell at usurious prices in the west, they copy your designs... There's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[SuperG900]

By some... you mean, Most? As in, most of those CCR radios are inferior to even radios that were made in the 80s... ? I've tested nearly every CCR made to date, with an ISOTEE, these things are just pretty polished turds.

25 years ago there wasn't the explosion of RF noise that we've had in the last decade, wifi, cell towers, etc...

Its not the receiver design or sensitivity what really matters, really. Most receivers today can hear down to -130 dBm easily... plenty of sensitivity, its the ability to reject all the unwanted noise/signals around the desired frequencies what matters the most, especially now. That is where most of these CCRs fall way sort. Most of those CCRs, when connected directly to the Service Monitor, they perform just as good as the best XPR7550e... once you take them out and run the ISOTEE test, you have a massive 30 dB desense, those 'things' are garbage.

Hytera is one of the better CCRs no doubt, but it just so happens they stole Motorola engineering designs, processes, etc... so of course they are better. I suspect there is also IP theft/sharing between Anytone and Hytera too... b/c there are uncanny similarities between their radio interfaces... who knows.

G.

I'm not claiming the CCR radio's are *best* - that's a tall order. What I was saying is that SDR methods are common these day - and sometimes, that can be 'good enough'. We'd all like to drive a Cadillac, but some of us just can't afford one.

I/P theft - yeah it's an issue in some cases. Is it a world stopper issuer? No. I live in a land founded on property theft and involuntary servitude, who am I to judge?

-Gene-

 

[gman1971]

Well, you had me scared for a second... and yes, SDR is probably the way to go... I think most radios made today are using direct conversion receivers in some sort of SDR form, but the cheap ones leave all the filtering out... so performance suffers dearly.

I found that used Cadillacs can be purchased for a lot cheaper if you look around, while it might have a few dents, some scratches, or it might even require a tune-up, but its a Cadillac nonetheless.

G.

 

[SuperG900]

Thanks

Well, you had me scared for a second... and yes, SDR is probably the way to go... I think most radios made today are using direct conversion receivers in some sort of SDR form, but the cheap ones leave all the filtering out... so performance suffers dearly.

I found that used Cadillacs can be purchased for a lot cheaper if you look around, while it might have a few dents, some scratches, or it might even require a tune-up, but its a Cadillac nonetheless.

G.

Thanks for being kind and understanding. I'm just getting into GMRS and got just got my ham license - my new radio came in the mail today which I've been chomping at the bit to play with and hoo-boy - I'm like a fat kid in a candy store.. I was so worked up last night I was posting all sorts of controversial stuff. I need to cool off.

Really - I'm forgetting that I'm probably biased in my viewpoint of that an RFID radio guy - wideband 800-900MHz FHSS schtuff... and LMR is narrowband and filters do matter there - if you want the best selectivity.

RFID interrogator stuff is inherently wideband so SDR is a natural there. But yeah - I've had to deal with unique issues like having the receiver circuit swamp itself when the TX power goes on - and have to hack a delay in the decoder until the receiver circuits quiets down. RFID is more akin to radar wherein you're looking at return received information at the same time your putting out a carrier - you have to have a circulator as a diplexer to isolate rx and tx. You light up an RFID tag with your carrier which passively powers it and it sends data back by varying it's little antenna impedance back and forth. I always tell folks to imagine shining a flash light at a guy holding a mirror - who than uses that mirror to send morse code back to you. The tags need no license - but the interrogators do.

So yeah - I'm a noob in the LMR area, I'll admit.

 

[gman1971]

Sorry if I came too strong... I was like that too, I couldn't afford much at first... and that is how they get you. You think 40 bucks is a great deal, so you get two, you receive the radios but you quickly realize they don't perform or meet your expectations. So you try to sell them just to realize how lucky you are if you can get 10 bucks out each radio... you realize nobody wants a used 40 dollar radio... so you keep them... and now you think that an 80 dollar radio will perform better, 80 bucks still isn't too bad.. so you get another pair of CCR for 160 bucks... just you realize the same, the radios aren't what you hoped for, and you try to sell it and you realize nobody wants these radios for the price you are asking... so you start looking into the 120 buck radios now, and 120 bucks a radio you get into color screens, with 500k contacts and other useless gadgets... So you sink 240 now, two radios... just to realize its the same story. That is not taking into account accessories, like microphones, cables, antennas...

Since most of us are trained to associate "new" with "quality", we never give used radios a 2nd thought... so the cycle keeps repeating. So by the time you've made your third purchase in our hypothetical scenario, you now have 6 useless radios, and you're out 80+160+240 = 480 bucks. For 480 bucks you could've easily purchased a near mint condition XPR7550e, with charging cradle, a high quality windported Motorola shoulder microphone, like the cool looking ones police officers wear, along with the programming cable... and have it programmed at your local ham club, and you'd probably still have some leftover cash for a nice carrying case.

Point is, aside from the typical Motorola inexplicable business/design decisions, some of which I am only beginning to experience now, their radios perform exceptionally well.

With that said, I am willing to concede other brands, like Kenwood LMR, Icom LMR, et. all, those also perform very well... and potentially might be cheaper to acquire those on the used market.

As for pagers... that sounds more like DSSS... vs narrowband.. where like you've stated, filtering is pretty much what makes it, or breaks it. The reason why those XPR7550e cost a "relative" fortune new is b/c their filtering/blocking/selectivity is, based on my measurements, top of the line.

G.

 

[n1das]

Getting back to the original thread topic of Retevis 900MHz license-free radio in the Budget and Entry Level Transceivers forum where we already know ahead of time going into it that the CCRs are (expletive) to begin with and we get what we pay for, time will tell if this radio is for real or not. So far this radio appears to be Vaporware. We'll have to wait and see if an FCC ID appears for it and the specs on Retevis' site get cleaned up and the MOQ gets reduced from 200 down to 1.

 

[SuperG900]

Getting back to the original thread topic of Retevis 900MHz license-free radio in the Budget and Entry Level Transceivers forum where we already know ahead of time going into it that the CCRs are (expletive) to begin with and we get what we pay for, time will tell if this radio is for real or not. So far this radio appears to be Vaporware. We'll have to wait and see if an FCC ID appears for it and the specs on Retevis' site get cleaned up and the MOQ gets reduced from 200 down to 1.

Speaking of which, I've just gotten today a Retevis RT-76P in the mail - and tried it out this evening. I've gotten good signal reports from it on MyGMRS. Of course, I've got several great repeaters in my area, one within 10 miles, another at about 18mi and 10600ft (4300 AGL). Indoors, it's a little spotty (multipath as you move around), but inside my house that ought to be expected as I have a metal roof. Outdoors - it's all good - loud and clear. I'll know more in the coming weeks what it's range can be as I use it out and about. It does let you pop into VFO mode and receive whatever you want VHF/UHF - so it's obviously a dualband radios with custom firmware to make GMRS legal.

As for the used commercial radios - I get one, if it came with a good battery, and charger, and antenna, and had papers for part 95, and the seller asks a reasonable.. price. You'd be amazed how many deals you have to pass by on Flea-bay , because their offer is not complete and the total cost gets prohibitive once you have to purchase those items too.

Just need to bide time wait for the right deal to pop under my nose. Time. But I've got something for the meantime and I'm finally OTA.

 

[gman1971]

Motorola DTR series 900 Mhz radios is where its at. I wouldn't waste my hard earned money on anything else, including Retevis... save up and get a used Motorola DTR radio, or those NEXTEL phones as its been stated here. Any of those options will work leaps and bounds better than any garbage coming from Retevis, TYT, Baofeng, et. all. People report entire cruise ship coverage out of a pair of DTR radios... good luck trying that with a Retevis...

While there is nothing wrong with getting something to start, problem is when beginners keep buying those CCRs thinking the more expensive ones are better... when they are not.

As for those "commercial radios" deals, they do exist, and a lot of the times as "buy it now" too. For example, I recently "Buy it Now" an XPR6550 in VHF, in absolutely mint condition, with a genuine Motorola windported shoulder mic, an IMPRES charger and genuine IMPRES battery, which reads service life of 99%... for... wait for it... for under 80 bucks, shipped to my door.

Perhaps you aren't looking as hard as you think you are.

G.

 

[SuperG900]

Motorola DTR series 900 Mhz radios is where its at. I wouldn't waste my hard earned money on anything else, including Retevis... save up and get a used Motorola DTR radio, or those NEXTEL phones as its been stated here. Any of those options will work leaps and bounds better than any garbage coming from Retevis, TYT, Baofeng, et. all. People report entire cruise ship coverage out of a pair of DTR radios... good luck trying that with a Retevis...

While there is nothing wrong with getting something to start, problem is when beginners keep buying those CCRs thinking the more expensive ones are better... when they are not.

As for those "commercial radios" deals, they do exist, and a lot of the times as "buy it now" too. For example, I recently "Buy it Now" an XPR6550 in VHF, in absolutely mint condition, with a genuine Motorola windported shoulder mic, an IMPRES charger and genuine IMPRES battery, which reads service life of 99%... for... wait for it... for under 80 bucks, shipped to my door.

Perhaps you aren't looking as hard as you think you are.

G.

I guess a lot depends on what one is really looking for. Those DTR units, I think, are part-15 FHSS units. They're short range 900Mhz radios - and they have to keep output under 1 watt to be legal. They're great radios for what they're intended for. Not what I'm looking for though.

XPR6550 - not familiar with them - but I'm guessing these are motorola DMR radios. Not what I was looking for, either. I do have a brand new Anytone-878UV waiting to be set up - and that's for ham usage

Nah - I was looking for GMRS radios, specifically legal ones. There are commercial HT units that have have an extra authorization for usage in the GMRS service, you just have to scour the forums here to get a list of known units and their FCC ID's.. Those I would go for....

 

[SuperG900]

But back on topic - 900Mhz frequency hoppers. Those I can relate to. I spent a lot of time in this dinking around in this band. We'd use a standard hop table like that used for 802.11. I'd love to see the code from one of these units - see what data modulation tricks they're using....

 

[sploits]

I know a lot of people think that this radio is vaporware or fake or whatever but I've got a few retevis RT27V MURS radios and they launched in much the same way... Vague details, incorrect or missing specs. The launch of the RT27V was on their site only but eventually it made its way onto other sites like amazon. As of now you could buy an individual RT10 radio and not a MOQ of 200 here RT10 900MHz ISM band frequency digital radio and it looks like they polished up the specs.

I'm really happy with their little murs radios that are perceived as cheap and crappy, and I think they perform almost as well the BTECH MURS-V1 with nagoya antennas that I have (for our bike group in wooded terrain). They're cheap which is a plus when handing them out to friends, and seem pretty durable having been dropped a bunch of times and still working.

I've always wanted a 'nice' unlicensed DMR FHSS radio but I think so far the only options have been the motorola DLR and DTRs. I had some of those junk 900mhz trisquare radios they discontinued like a decade ago, and they performed really well in buildings though I think they were FHSS with analog voice. They looked so cheap that they were embarrassing to carry around.

Retevis also seems to fly by the seats of their pants and ships radios before they have the FCC grants. Their grantee code is 2ASNS but I don't see any grants for the RT10 yet.

Assuming the specs are accurate (and I know this doesn't prove they will be good), but 7K60FXE AMBE++ is a true digital mode right? I've never used a DLR/DTR motorola radio but have heard very good things about them, especially in terms of performance in buildings with a lot of floors.

It sounds like 1W 900mhz is reasonably good for penetrating structures, but how would it compare to MURS 2w @ ~150mhz for wooded terrain? Is it true that the digital modes give you a bit more range or at least better audio out to the max range?

 

[n1das]

I just looked at this radio on Retevis's website and nothing has changed except for saying that it's "in stock."

Below is a copy and paste of one of my posts in the myGMRS.com forums about this radio. I maintain that this radio is vaporware based on the published specs.
The errors in the specs for the Retevis 900MHz radio isn't just a simple mistake or two. Many of the specs are incorrect and N/A for a FHSS radio.

Here's some fact checking....blue text is mine.

Overview on Retevis' website: (copied and pasted)

Licensed by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Industry Canada to operate in the license-free 900 MHz ISM (Industrial, Scientific and Medical) band.
Okayyyy.....they operate unlicensed under Part 15. Note that the term is "unlicensed" instead of "license by rule" given that they operate unlicensed under Part 15 and do not operate license by rule under any other rule part like how FRS operates license by rule under Part 95.


Designed for business operations, the DTR Series radio will free your time from regulatory paperwork and licensing applications and saving radio licensing fees.

Are we talking about a Motorola DTR 900MHz FHSS digital radio or a Retevis 900MHz FHSS radio? The statement looks like a copy and paste from Motorola's documentation.


Features:

1. 900MHz FHSS license free radio

2. Digital and analog compatible

Support DMR digital and analog two communication modes to ensure that the original analog products smooth transition to digital products to meet different communication needs

FALSE. Can't be both of these at the same time. An FHSS radio is not compatible at all with a conventional analog or digital radio. An FHSS radio won't use DMR either.


3. Digital signaling function

Rich calling modes that support DMR protocol, including single call, group call and all call; supports remote inhibit function and other applications

FALSE. It won't be using DMR if it's an FHSS radio.


4. Interference free, private communications

Leverage Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum (FHSS) technology for more reliable and private communication when compared to standard analog radios.

This is TRUE!

5. High sound quality

This digital two-way radio uses advanced AMBE +2TM voice processing technology to achieve higher quality

PARTIALLY True but incorrect. The digital audio from a Motorola DTR radio and other digital radios is high quality. The AMBE+2 vocoder is for a DMR conventional radio, not for an FHSS digital radio. The Motorola DTRs use Motorola's VSELP vocoder. VSELP was used in Motorola ASTRO digital radios before P25 Phase 1 which uses the IMBE vocoder. VSELP was also used by iDEN phones on NEXTEL and other iDEN networks.

6. Prominent functional keys

Programmable button can be used to quickly access call features like Call All/Page All, to talk to radios without searching through your channel list.

The Call All/Page All refers to the Call All Available and Page All Available features in the Motorola DTR600/700 radios and Motorola DLR1020/1060 radios. The legacy DTR410/550/650 models (now discontinued) don't have the Call All/Page All Available features.

7. Supports the use of repeater

PARTIALLY true. FHSS radios such as the Motorola DTRs are simplex only and occupy the entire 902-928MHz band when they transmit. There is a repeater available for them ($1500) but it does not function like a conventional repeater. It consists of a pair of DTR radios running custom firmware and a controller to behave as a repeater. Each DTR radio uses a different frequency hopset. DTR radios talking on one hopset can talk to DTR radios on the other hopset using the repeater, and vice versa. It is one way operation at a time. The repeater has to be carefully placed to extend coverage areas. It is usually located where there is some overlap between an existing coverage area and the desired extended coverage area. The application for this is to extend coverage areas inside large buildings.

Some on-site business systems use the 900MHz band, including the Motorola DTR 900MHz FHSS frequency hopping spread spectrum handheld radios, which operate at 1watt ERP transmit power on the 902-928MHz ISM band using frequency hopping digital voice. Current examples include the Motorola DTR600 and DTR700 radios, These radios operate with 50kHz channel spacing and 8-level FSK digital FHSS. 902.525MHz to 927.475MHz coverage.

Partially true. This statement reads like marketing literature. An FHSS device operating in the 902-928MHz band is required by FCC 15.247 to use a minimum hopset of 50 frequencies and with a maximum output power of 1 W (+30 dBm). The Motorola DTRs operate at 830mW (+29.2 dBm) to 890mW (+29.5 dBm). The measurement of transmitter output power is a conducted measurement made at the antenna connector. Output power is not specified in terms of ERP or EIRP.

The 50kHz channel spacing refers to individual frequencies in adjacent hopsets, NOT individual frequencies within a given hopset. The Motorola DTRs have 10 hopsets available, consisting of 50 individual frequencies, spaced 500 kHz apart. The 902-928MHz band has 26MHz of spectrum and gives 52 frequencies spaced 500kHz apart. The first and last frequency is not used due to being at the band edges so that leaves 50 frequencies available in a hopset. Frequencies in adjacent hopsets are offset by 50kHz. The spec'd 902.525MHz to 927.475MHz coverage is correct for the Motorola DTRs.

The mention of the 8-level FSK digital modulation for the FHSS operation is correct for the Motorola DTRs and DLRs and refers to the modulation used on each hopping frequency. The occupied bandwidth of the 8-level FSK modulation on a given hopping frequency is wider (~ 26 kHz) than what a narrowband receiver will accept, even if you were to stop the FHSS and have the transmitter sit on a single frequency.


Technical specs on Retevis' website: A mixture of DTR, DMR, and analog specs (LOL). At least they got the DTR freq range right!

Main technological specification


Frequency range
902.525 - 927.475 MHz
Channel Capacity
30/50CH (up to 200)
Channel Spacing
25KHz/12.5KHz
Operating Temperature
-25℃~+60℃
Operating Voltage
DC 3.7V
Antenna Impedance
50Ω
Microphone Impedance
2.2KΩ
Battery
1800mAh
Dimension
128×54×32mm

(No including antenna)
Weight
223g

Freq range: Correct for the Motorola DTRs.
Channel capacity: Channels in the Motorola DTRs refer the number of public talkgroups or Profile ID talkgroups that can be programmed. The "up to 200" refers to the maximum number of private contacts that can be programmed for setting up private talkgroups and for private 1 to 1 calling. This is NOT the RF channel capacity like in a conventional radio.
Channel spacing: Incorrect. This is the channel spacing for conventional analog and digital radios in wide and narrow bandwidths and is N/A for an FHSS radio.

Transmission


Output power
1W
FM modulation
25/16K¢F3E 12.5K/8K¢F3E
4FSK digital modulation
12.5KHz for data:7K60FXD 12.5KHz for data and voice :7K60FXE
Vocoder type
AMBE++or SELP
Digital Protocol
ETSI-TS102 361-1,-2,
Harmonic
≥70dB
Signal-to-noise Radio(wide/narrow)
25K≤-45 dB

12.5≤-40 dB
Rated audio Distortion
≥5%
Frequency Stability
±2.5ppm
Max Frequency Stability
12.5K≤-40dB

Output power: Correct.
FM modulation: Incorrect and refers to conventional and analog radios. N/A for FHSS digital radios.
4FSK digital modulation: Incorrect. Refers to DMR digital modulation for conventional radios. N/A for FHSS and the Motorola DTRs which use an 8-level FSK modulation scheme on each frequency in a hopset.
Vocoder type: Incorrect. AMBE++ is used by DMR. SELP = ? The Motorola DTRs and DLRs use Motorola's VSELP vocoder.
Digital Protocol: Incorrect. The ETSI standard listed is for DMR. N/A for FHSS analog or digital.
SNR (wide/narrow): Incorrect and N/A for FHSS. The spec is for conventional radios.

Reception


Sensitivity (12dB SINAD)
Analog 25K≤-121dB 12.5K≤-119dB
Digital 0.3μV/BER5%

Signal-to-noise Radio
25K≥45 dB 12.5K≥40dB
Adjacent channel selectivity
25K≥65 dB 12.5K≥60dB
Intermediation (Wide/ narrow)
25K≥60 dB 12.5K≥55dB
Spurious Response Rejection
≥65 dB
Audio power
1W
Audio distortion
<5%
Frequency Stability
±2.5ppm
Battery life under 5-5-90duty
14.8 hours(with 1600mAh Li-ion battery)
20.9 hours(with 1600mAh Li-ion battery)


Sensitivity: Incorrect. The spec listed is for conventional wide/narrow operation. N/A for FHSS.
SNR: Incorrect. The spec listed is for conventional wide/narrow operation. N/A for FHSS.
Adjacent channel selectivity: Incorrect. The spec listed is for conventional wide/narrow operation. N/A for FHSS.
Intermodulation (intermediation LOL): Incorrect. The spec listed is for conventional wide/narrow operation. N/A for FHSS.
Spurious Response rejection: N/A for FHSS.

The Bottom line: EPIC FAIL. Too many glaring mistakes with specs which are N/A and incompatible with FHSS operation. I have to call BS here and say this radio is Vaporware.

There were some analog 900MHz FHSS radios made by TriSquare a number of years ago. These were the eXRS radios and were marketed as an alternative to FRS. They operated on 900MHz and used FHSS. The similarities with the Motorola DTR radios ended there. The eXRS radios were analog and used a hopset of 50 frequencies per FCC 15.247. They spent 400ms on each frequency in the hopset, the maximum accumulated dwell time allowed per FCC 15.247. This meant they hopped very slowly and you could sort of monitor them with a scanner if it was fast enough and only scanning the specific freqs in the hopset. Using a divide and conquer approach by employing multiple scanners with each scanner covering a portion of the hopset worked better. You would hear the audio ping pong between multiple scanners but at least you could sort of monitor the eXRS radios. The eXRS radios were notorious for synchronization problems and took a long time to re-sync if synchronization was lost. The bottom line is these radios were total JUNK and the company is out of business. OTOH, the Motorola DTRs are professional quality and 100% digital and packed with features and work amazingly well. The DTRs spend no more than 90ms on any given hopping frequency, which works out to around 11 hops/second. The fact that the DTRs are completely scanner proof comes as a bonus.

 

[alcahuete]

It sounds like 1W 900mhz is reasonably good for penetrating structures, but how would it compare to MURS 2w @ ~150mhz for wooded terrain? Is it true that the digital modes give you a bit more range or at least better audio out to the max range?

The rest of your post was answered well by @n1das but to answer this specific part, don't get caught up on the power, especially when dealing with different bands. It is really more dependant on the environment. On a cruise ship, for example, the 1w DTR will crush a 5w VHF (close to MURS frequencies) or 4w UHF radio handily. Not even a competition.

In your case, the MURS radio might very well outperform the 900 MHz, but it isn't due to the power. 900 MHz doesn't usually work particularly well in wooded areas, especially with pine trees, which highly attenuate the signal. VHF is normally better for those types of environments.

 

[gman1971]

The radio can be summed up as garbage, or vapoware, or both. IMO, I would look elsewhere...

Agree, with VHF for outdoors, and forest, 900mhz is probably better for inside a ship, like a cruise ship... but...'

Alcahuete, I PM'd you, did you got my message?

 

[sploits]

Lots of smart people and good info here. I had a pair of those trisquares that n1das mentioned. They felt super cheap and did have that 'de-syncronizing' issue occasionally, but when they worked the indoor range in an old concrete building through multiple floors blew FRS away. Since then I've always wanted another set of inexpensive 900mhz radios but the market is mostly devoid of entry-mid radios in that band. I really like the MURS band for outdoors and retevis makes decent ones with coded squelch, so I'm looking forward to some people getting their hands on the 900mhz RT10 and getting a verdict on whether it's decent or sucks.

As for the lack of FCC ID for this radio, they seem to jump the gun selling radios before the grant is finalized as was the case with the RT27V. When I bought my rt27v's in Aug 2019, I tried to look up the FCC ID and realized it didn't exist, then in September it was granted. It wasn't until a few weeks after that when that they made the programming software available, so the radio was locked at low power until then. Even still it looks like their FCC grant is only for the low power setting.

I'd imagine once they have the grant or are closer to it, these will pop up on Amazon like all their other radios and not just retevis direct.

 

[sploits]

I just wanted to point out that Retevis updated their website and you can now download the manual and software. I downloaded the software to get an idea of the options on the radio:

According to the programming software, you can set the 16 channels individually to analog or digital. Analog channels have those toned/coded squelches. Digital chanels can be associated with a RX group list and use a call group. Digital channels also claim to have an encryption mode with 'normal' or 'enhanced' modes that appear to use 4 or 32 length hexidecimal values.

I thought encryption was only allowed on business bands? Or are the rules different for the ISM band? Now that I think of it, 900mhz data radios like the ubiquiti wifi have WPA2.

I saw some other options I didn't understand... "DMR Mode: straight/relay/doubleslot"?

Still no FCC grant, though they usually seem to get those after they've started selling the radio lol.

 

[empireco]

Encryption is legal for 900 MHz ISM band. Motorola and others sell radios that are license free for 900 MHz ISM band that do a Watt or less and have digital modes such as DMR and built in encryption for businesses or whoever else wants one.

 

[mmckenna]

Still no FCC grant, though they usually seem to get those after they've started selling the radio lol.

ISM radios fall under Part 15 and/or Part 18. Usually it's just a tag on the back and that's it. You may or may not see an actual grant like you would with a Part 90 radio.

 

[n1das]

ISM radios fall under Part 15 and/or Part 18. Usually it's just a tag on the back and that's it. You may or may not see an actual grant like you would with a Part 90 radio.

There is an actual grant issued for an ISM radio operating under Part 15. Check out the grant for the Motorola DTR600/700: https://fccid.io/AZ489FT5874

 

[n1das]

I just wanted to point out that Retevis updated their website and you can now download the manual and software. I downloaded the software to get an idea of the options on the radio:

According to the programming software, you can set the 16 channels individually to analog or digital. Analog channels have those toned/coded squelches. Digital chanels can be associated with a RX group list and use a call group. Digital channels also claim to have an encryption mode with 'normal' or 'enhanced' modes that appear to use 4 or 32 length hexidecimal values.

I thought encryption was only allowed on business bands? Or are the rules different for the ISM band? Now that I think of it, 900mhz data radios like the ubiquiti wifi have WPA2.

I saw some other options I didn't understand... "DMR Mode: straight/relay/doubleslot"?

Still no FCC grant, though they usually seem to get those after they've started selling the radio lol.

Epic FAIL as I mentioned earlier.

The programming software and features described are for a conventional radio w/DMR. These features are not compatible with FHSS at all. It is not an FHSS radio if it has these features. Wikipedia has a good article on FHSS: Frequency-hopping spread spectrum - Wikipedia

The power limit in the 902-928MHz band is 1 mW (0 dBm) for a non-FHSS radio, i.e., a conventional radio. The power limit for an FHSS radio in the 902-928MHz band is 1W (+30 dBm). An FHSS radio operating in the 902-928MHz band is also required per FCC 15.247 to use a minimum hopset of 50 frequencies. The Motorola DTR and DLR radios use a hopset of 50 frequencies and the radios have 10 hopsets available. The DTR and DLR radios spend no more than about 90 ms on a given frequency in the hopset, for a hop rate of about 11 hops per second.

Most likely the Retevis radio is for the 896-901MHz / 935-940MHz band instead of the 902-928MHz ISM band. The 896-901 / 935-940 band is also not license-free, at least not in the USA.

Still haven't seen an FCC ID yet. Your move, Retevis.

EDIT: This radio may be for Japan's license-free 900MHz LMR band and not for USA / Canada.