SAFE-T P25 Thread

[DJ11DLN]

We (southwest) don't yet have a timeline for any actual reprogramming. As far as it has gone is to determine what radios are EOL and won't be allowed authorization on the P25 system. But since that's currently being reconfirmed, I hope we'll be hearing soon when everything will have to be brought in and updated. And so far no word on a deadline when the EOL stuff will need to be replaced by, but I'm sure we'll be hearing this soon as it is a blood-in-the-water situation for the vendors.

I think MILF covered this already but what I'm being told is that the 2 systems will run side-by-side with patching as necessary to maintain continuity until everything is done and then with the full cut-over, once it's verified to be working properly, the Mot2 system will be taken offline, in stages as zones are finished. Take that with a grain of salt or 3, there's been some conflicting info floating around so just passing this along for what it's worth.:wink:

 

[INDY72]

Also note that on the new P25, very little actual touching of radios will need to be done after the initial set up. Most can easily be changed via OTAP and save a buttload of time. The only thing that takes up the most time in this game, is having to do the initial set up on the system. Adding the new P25 repeaters, new linking gear, possibly even new antennas on the transmitter sites. Changing dispatch consoles, mobiles, HT's. And of course, building new sites where needed, and upgrading/merging Municipal/County systems into the SAFE-T. Then training.

Side Note: Unknown to me yet as to if on the 8-Call/8-Tac repeaters are being upgraded to use P25 also. If they do, they would be set up to do P25 and analog for interop etc.

 

[JStemann]

Couple of things here, bear with me because I have no experience with these truncked systems, I was under the impression that the new p25 site radios we're going to be using the existing station equipment(antennas, coax, etc...), if that's the case, would they still leave the old system online with the new ? There would have to be some kind of link between the two to prevent assigning the same voice channel to multiple conversations across systems. I understand the user radios will have both systems programmed but, I thought the site would be one or the other, not both.

I guess they may still need some sort of patch or link between systems (maybe at the or within the zone controller?) in order for the talk groups to follow between systems. At this point, in the southeast anyway, everything should be in place (at the respective sites) and ready to have the antenna system swapped, shouldn't it? The consoles, I would think, would be nothing more than loading the correct template or moving a control cable from the old equipment to the new.

Finally, isn't the standard for NPSPAC 800mhz channels fm analog? In fact I thought the repeaters were required to be analog and that the portable & mobile radios be capable of analog on those channels.

Jeff.

 

[INDY72]

The following will be the same: Most of the coax running up the towers. Most of the antennas in place, some may need replacing due to aging etc.... When your tossing upgrades in, why not check out everything, and fix what needs fixed? Shelters, Power, backup power etc.... The following parts will not be the same: Actual Repeaters. On the racks, there will be both the Legacy one, and the P25 one. Some of the microwave, and fiber linking gear. Both systems can run simultaneously, different CC's to start with to prevent interference there. Voice Chans will not interfere with one another, trust me on that one. Rarely are all the freqs assigned all being used all the time. When one is busy, the computer will assign users to the ones that aren't. Until everyone has digital radios, and knows how to work them etc, both systems will be up. The Legacy will be phased out as users are converted. The hope is that by the time Phase 6 starts online, they will have pretty much every user in Phase 1 converted and can shut off the Legacy repeaters there, and so on...

The majority of LEA will be P25, its the smaller agencies that will still be on the Legacy system for an time. (VFD's etc...)

As for patches, linking, etc... There will be plenty of those in place. I do not know for sure, but they could even install Moto X Smart Bridges for that kind of thing. We will see how it all pans out over the next few weeks in Phase 1. Start watching for P25 activity after tomorrow guys.

 

[INDY72]

OK guys as the cutover for Phase 1 is this month, I am going to jump on adding the area Counties this Friday. (See progress mapss etc in the APCO P25 thread)

 

[SCPD]

As of yesterday 7-19-15 Testing on the P25 has started and the Indy site should be active now with testing so you can see how your scanner works on the P25 also south should be online soon

 

[INDY72]

Lot of radio testing as for options and operations. Emergency Trigger override of normal comms, unauthorized access bonk tests, busy bonk tests etc.

 

[SCPD]

I would highly recommend that if you are in Marion County or live near the boarder of Marion County Indianapolis I would go ahead and program up your scanner for the Indy P25 Safe T now to make sure you can pick up the New Safe T System and make any changes you may need as this will be online soon as testing already has begun and there will be patches set up between the new and old systems to listen to.

Here is the RR DB Link for the New Safe T P25 System

Indiana Project Hoosier SAFE-T (P-25) Trunking System, Statewide, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies

These are the frequencies you need more will be added later to the system MARION COUNTY ONLY

851.32500a 852.46250a 855.96250 CC 858.71250a

 

[DJ11DLN]

Also note that on the new P25, very little actual touching of radios will need to be done after the initial set up. Most can easily be changed via OTAP and save a buttload of time..

Just confirmed, they are doing ours Monday...physical reprogramming, all radios will have to be brought in and done the old-fashioned way. This is for all LE/FD/ everything else using Safe-T in the county. Not trying to say you're wrong...maybe OTAP works for some series of radios and not others? There is both Moto (not sure of models) and EFJ 51sl/52sl stuff around here.

 

[bamx2]

Just confirmed, they are doing ours Monday...physical reprogramming, all radios will have to be brought in and done the old-fashioned way. This is for all LE/FD/ everything else using Safe-T in the county. Not trying to say you're wrong...maybe OTAP works for some series of radios and not others? There is both Moto (not sure of models) and EFJ 51sl/52sl stuff around here.

They will be touching them here too.

Received word the project is pushed back another window.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steve73]

They will be touching them here too.

Received word the project is pushed back another window.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We have been told end of August or September.

 

[INDY72]

For the Motorola's OTAP is the preferred method after initial set up. This will be the initial addition of the P25 system to the radios. Any agency that has new radios should have both systems in the radios codeplugs. Those agencies that have P25 Phase 1 capable gear already, will be adding the new system to the radios. After this, any major changes should be done vias the OTAP feature, on TG 1 which is the Statewide OTAP TG. Possibly this will be an chance for the agencies guys to have actual hands on experience with the system. ISP, and most of the State agencies have newer radios such as the APX'es from Motorola and already have all of the system in the codeplug, as well as conventional 800, and 700 freqs. The 800 conventional will be analog the 700 is P25. With the new delays in the air... Phase 1 should be fully online by September 1. 30 days later we hope Phase 2 will begin this process, etc, etc... As for Moto's... Since the XTL/XTS series is disconned.... I would expect to see APX'es on the hips. (Mostly 6000's, possibly a few 7000's for admin types?)

 

[usswood]

EMA has already been touching radios in Vigo

 

[DJ11DLN]

When they ran the model and serial #'s earlier this spring in addition to the ones that are EOL (i.e. soon going to be paperweights), several came back as "P25 not installed." That should have tipped me off that at the very least those were going to need hands-on.

I won't speculate about why these particular radios got distributed without full provision for a future projected needed upgrade included in their codeplugs ($$$)...:roll:

 

[Steve73]

When they ran the model and serial #'s earlier this spring in addition to the ones that are EOL (i.e. soon going to be paperweights), several came back as "P25 not installed." That should have tipped me off that at the very least those were going to need hands-on.

I won't speculate about why these particular radios got distributed without full provision for a future projected needed upgrade included in their codeplugs ($$$)...:roll:

Seems allot of the EF Johnson radios aren't ready. Have seen a few motos so far but not near as many as the Johnson radios in our area.

 

[eaf1956]

The following will be the same: Most of the coax running up the towers. Most of the antennas in place, some may need replacing due to aging etc.... .

I fail to understand how they can run 2 systems on the same coax.

 

[aaron315]

I fail to understand how they can run 2 systems on the same coax.

The logical system is simply software control of multiple radios, partitioned by the controllers and site design and assigned to old / new system.

The phyiscla radios in the same coax is accomplished by way of RF combiner (TX) and Multicoupler (RX) systems. This is a similar setup to the duplexer setup used in amateur radio repeaters, but allows multiple transmitters and receivers on the same coax / antenna.

 

[INDY72]

This is also the same way basically you can have multiple scanners on an single antenna, or multiple antenna on an single scanner. Multicoupling. I myself have run 4 scanners on one ant, and have run 2 ants on one scanner using multicouplers. There really isn't any issue with the SAFE-T as your dealing with an single band. Now if they were running say the Legacy on 800, and were switching to VHF, or UHF for the P25, then they would indeed need separate coax, and completely separate antenna etc. Running side by side identical band/freq systems is done routinely using an single coax. An prime example would be the now hundreds of LTR TRS's that are transitioning to NXDN or DMR. 90% of these are just adding the new repeater hardware, and running side by side with the LTR until they transition every user to the DMR or NXDN. Then they take down the LTR. Same way that Motorola and Harris are doing with their upgrades from Smart Zone/Net to ASTRO-25, and EDACS to P25ip.

 

[JStemann]

Delayed again...

Maybe I missed it in an earlier post. According to the IPSC site, phase 1 has been pushed back to September/October time frame. The following phases would start in ~60 day intervals, with the state being "completed" by July '16. It was supposed to start this July, maybe even earlier, originally. The delays are being blamed on contract issues for communication lines to the sites.

Jeff.

 

[DJ11DLN]

Maybe I missed it in an earlier post. According to the IPSC site, phase 1 has been pushed back to September/October time frame. The following phases would start in ~60 day intervals, with the state being "completed" by July '16. It was supposed to start this July, maybe even earlier, originally. The delays are being blamed on contract issues for communication lines to the sites.

Jeff.

The day they were supposed to update the radios in my County, they ended up only getting between 1/3 and 1/2 of them done and of course couldn't come back and finish next day as they had to be somewhere else. Seems it was taking a lot longer to do each unit than the plan anticipated. While some of the agencies left in the lurch (mine is one) may have a timeline for when it will be done, so far we've been able to find out nothing at all...

"Nothing ever gets done on schedule or within budget" -- unnamed architect in charge of building the Great Pyramid.:roll: