San Diego County encryption

[tsalmrsystemtech]

Well at least you were able to hear LE for another 25 more years. OC Sheriffs went encrypted 25 years ago and Fire followed suite with full E almost 3 years ago. The County is still figuring out three years later if they will switch back to the clear. So cell phones and trolls and media as well as streaming apps probably was not just one incident why. OC went full LE encryption right after 9/11 before cell phones and apps were not even a pin hole on the earth.

Unfortunately more LE agencies in SD County will follow suit in time. With the OTAP and OTAR across the air they can do it on the fly now with these new Phase II systems. I would of thought once they upgraded to the NextGen Phase II system everything was in stone. But I guess we are all wrong. The flip can happen in a blink of an eye.

Lets just hope FIRE doesn't follow too. I wouldn't be surprised if the Hospital Talkgroups go silent eventually to due to the buzz word "HIPPA"

LE using "CLETS" as their code word now to encrypt. If you have seen the trend and there is no turning back the clock you can see EIRCA went Full E and Riverside Co went Full E and then San Bernardino County LE went all Full E. OC went decades ago and most of all of LA County has gone too. LA CITY will follow suit as well as LA County LA-RICS. It's just a matter of time until the whole state locks down LE comms. It's just going to happen in waves until everything is sewed up across the board.

It's just time now. Look at where we were 10 years ago and now you see where we are now. Give it another 5 to 10 years and scanner radios just won't be a topic anymore in SOCAL at least. Other rural areas might be different but not in this BLUE State that has gone to SH$T

 

[marcotor]

Well at least you were able to hear LE for another 25 more years.

Welcome back Pepsima/Toyboat/Allend!

 

[KC3ECJ]

Well at least you were able to hear LE for another 25 more years. OC Sheriffs went encrypted 25 years ago and Fire followed suite with full E almost 3 years ago. The County is still figuring out three years later if they will switch back to the clear. So cell phones and trolls and media as well as streaming apps probably was not just one incident why. OC went full LE encryption right after 9/11 before cell phones and apps were not even a pin hole on the earth.

Unfortunately more LE agencies in SD County will follow suit in time. With the OTAP and OTAR across the air they can do it on the fly now with these new Phase II systems. I would of thought once they upgraded to the NextGen Phase II system everything was in stone. But I guess we are all wrong. The flip can happen in a blink of an eye.

Lets just hope FIRE doesn't follow too. I wouldn't be surprised if the Hospital Talkgroups go silent eventually to due to the buzz word "HIPPA"

LE using "CLETS" as their code word now to encrypt. If you have seen the trend and there is no turning back the clock you can see EIRCA went Full E and Riverside Co went Full E and then San Bernardino County LE went all Full E. OC went decades ago and most of all of LA County has gone too. LA CITY will follow suit as well as LA County LA-RICS. It's just a matter of time until the whole state locks down LE comms. It's just going to happen in waves until everything is sewed up across the board.

It's just time now. Look at where we were 10 years ago and now you see where we are now. Give it another 5 to 10 years and scanner radios just won't be a topic anymore in SOCAL at least. Other rural areas might be different but not in this BLUE State that has gone to SH$T

HIPAA doesn't require it.

 

[inigo88]

It's a sad day and one I've feared was coming soon. DB partially updated though I'm sure they'll be 100% encrypted shortly. If you don't like it, write SDSO and your local elected officials, show up to town hall meetings and otherwise engage in your local political process, because as others have said it's easier to encrypt now than ever and this will only gain momentum.

 

[d119]

Ignore him, he trolls a lot, but is mostly harmless.

Paul

I wouldn't say I took issue with a word she used, I just found it amusing that someone's heart would be broken because they can't listen to the police.

It's like the end of the world to you guys. Absolutely fascinating, and I mean that.

As for you, Paul, how are you going to chase ambulances now? Serious question - how do you TV types plan on getting in the way now that you're out of the loop?

 

[d119]

It's a sad day and one I've feared was coming soon. DB partially updated though I'm sure they'll be 100% encrypted shortly. If you don't like it, write SDSO and your local elected officials, show up to town hall meetings and otherwise engage in your local political process, because as others have said it's easier to encrypt now than ever and this will only gain momentum.

I'm pretty certain if thousands of people inundate these agencies with FOIA requests for dispatch audio it might eventually have an impact.

Last comment from me on the subject - I think if you look deep into the hobby and the way things have gone with the advent of the internet, you'll find the hobby did this to itself, as much as nobody wants to take responsibility for it.

 

[inigo88]

I'm pretty certain if thousands of people inundate these agencies with FOIA requests for dispatch audio it might eventually have an impact.

Trust me I've been brushing up on the relevant laws a lot tonight. Then again maybe they'd enjoy the extra revenue from all the records labor, burned audio CDs and postage.

For California state agencies it would be a California Public Records Act (CPRA) request. Most writing on the subject is specific to 911 call tapes or transcripts, but dispatch audio and incident logs may also be available. But there are CPRA exemptions (see CA Govt Code 6254(f) ) as well as some case law that could stand in the way of disclosure of records depending on the specifics of the case.

https://firstamendmentcoalition.org/2020/03/aa-how-do-i-request-911-call-transcripts/

Still, CPRA at least gives civilians a mechanism in CA to request the records and force the issue to an exemption review. Other states have banned release of 911 and dispatch audio outright, which combined with encrypting routine communications creates a pretty impenetrable lack of public transparency.

Laws in the US by state: https://www.rcfp.org/open-government-sections/3-911-tapes/

I don't blame the radio system managers or techs (some of whom enjoy "flipping the switch" to Ø more than others ) because at the end of the day this is between local government/law enforcement and the citizens they serve.

 

[Anderegg]

I wouldn't say I took issue with a word she used, I just found it amusing that someone's heart would be broken because they can't listen to the police.

It's like the end of the world to you guys. Absolutely fascinating, and I mean that.

As for you, Paul, how are you going to chase ambulances now? Serious question - how do you TV types plan on getting in the way now that you're out of the loop?

Chasing the ambulances is not affected, as they are not encrypted...yet.

Paul

 

[d119]

Chasing the ambulances is not affected, as they are not encrypted...yet.

Paul

Touché, Paul.

 

[JKPHOTO]

I do believe it will be harder for the news to gather information. But I think if all citizens that are interested in the dissemination of news should work with the stringers and news stations to alert them if they hear or suspect a good story. Also, if you see something in your neighborhood that may be news, inform the news. Other sources would be the various CAD's available. It may require the news to check out more stories to confirm them, if a big story is suspected. But the trend is a little frightening. Does any know if media will get any Dispatch Freqs. or no?

 

[d119]

I've a rather dim view of stringers ever since I was nearly run off the road in a serious way by one that was trying to get to a pursuit termination on the 5. Drove a white explorer with some two-digit number on the tailgate.

Man that pissed me off so bad I'll never forget it. I've have PPA'ed him for 23103 if I could go back and do it all over again. Talk about reckless endangerment.

So yeah, that's kinda part of my negative bias on you independent TV types. Drivin' your ridiculous "cop cars" and getting in the way and stressing people out on the road.

I kinda put y'all in the same category as funeral escort guys.

I digress. San Diego County is encrypted now.

 

[jimbrogers]

Yeap, it's a sad day, Im sure CHP will follow.

 

[JKPHOTO]

Thank you for that opinion.
Please keep in mind that not all stringers operate in that fashion. Yes it is important to respond quickly, but not put the public in danger. I have known some very responsible stringers that are pro LE and very respectful of First Responders. I have known some staffers that I was opposed to their conduct as well. I just feel when the public is keeped out or the loop, by way of the stringers or staffers, than LE loses their transparency and it is a diservice to all involved. Perhaps just a few TG's encoded.

 

[d119]

Yeap, it's a sad day, Im sure CHP will follow.

Now THAT is when I will REALLY be bummed out. That's the only agency I listen to outside of work.

Keep an eye on CRIS. When you start seeing major infrastructure buildouts in San Diego County, I mean down to RCS-level coverage, well, the end will be nigh.

Especially if you see El Cajon move over to CRIS first. Since CHP El Cajon pays for their subscribers, it would make sense that they would go first to get rid of that cost.

 

[Anderegg]

I've a rather dim view of stringers ever since I was nearly run off the road in a serious way by one that was trying to get to a pursuit termination on the 5. Drove a white explorer with some two-digit number on the tailgate.

Man that pissed me off so bad I'll never forget it. I've have PPA'ed him for 23103 if I could go back and do it all over again. Talk about reckless endangerment.

So yeah, that's kinda part of my negative bias on you independent TV types. Drivin' your ridiculous "cop cars" and getting in the way and stressing people out on the road.

I kinda put y'all in the same category as funeral escort guys.

I digress. San Diego County is encrypted now.

d119, I inquired about that the day it happened. It was confirmed to be a KNSD news crew.

As for media being able to get info on active or recent incidents. We have attempted to work out 24/7 contacts and ability for dispatchers to release minimal info such as are they working any shootings or car crashes, are they 11-80, are there victims, how about a location...but none of these have been fruitful and we now get press releases 24-48 hours from such cities as Chula Vista and El Cajon on things like HOMICIDES.

Paul

 

[d119]

d119, I inquired about that the day it happened. It was confirmed to be a KNSD news crew.

As for media being able to get info on active or recent incidents. We have attempted to work out 24/7 contacts and ability for dispatchers to release minimal info such as are they working any shootings or car crashes, are they 11-80, are there victims, how about a location...but none of these have been fruitful and we now get press releases 24-48 hours from such cities as Chula Vista and El Cajon on things like HOMICIDES.

Paul

Thanks for looking into that. Wish I had known that back then, I'd have raised hell like never seen before.

As for the encryption stuff, I've no idea how one would try and shine a light at the end of that tunnel. I'm sure they've done their legal homework all the way to the Federal level.

While it does the police no good to have criminals able to listen on their mobile devices, it also does the police no good in the public trust to keep taxpayers in the dark.

As you're all painfully and intimately aware, "news releases" and "press briefings" are sanitized and slanted however the issuing agency wants them to be. It should be up to the listener to decide how something really happened. And you've been deprived of that ability. So much for LE transparency and the "public trust".

Doesn't RSO issue media radio ID's and keyload stringers radios for "listen only" provided the requesting party has credentials and provides the radio? I know of a guy who carries a radio like that, just gave them some BS media credentials, pays a monthly fee and he can hear encrypted stuff. Or did all of that go away...

 

[Anderegg]

Thanks for looking into that. Wish I had known that back then, I'd have raised hell like never seen before.

As for the encryption stuff, I've no idea how one would try and shine a light at the end of that tunnel. I'm sure they've done their legal homework all the way to the Federal level.

While it does the police no good to have criminals able to listen on their mobile devices, it also does the police no good in the public trust to keep taxpayers in the dark.

As you're all painfully and intimately aware, "news releases" and "press briefings" are sanitized and slanted however the issuing agency wants them to be. It should be up to the listener to decide how something really happened. And you've been deprived of that ability. So much for LE transparency and the "public trust".

Doesn't RSO issue media radio ID's and keyload stringers radios for "listen only" provided the requesting party has credentials and provides the radio? I know of a guy who carries a radio like that, just gave them some BS media credentials, pays a monthly fee and he can hear encrypted stuff. Or did all of that go away...

Escondido PD, the first to encrypt pre-mandate, gave the OK for the RCS to load their encryption keys into our media APX radios. As soon as the mandate dropped, they informed us that although they are OK with us monitoring their comms, the mandate precludes their ability to allow that, so they cancelled the media radio keying. Similarly, CVFD was set to get encryption keys for their fire units on CVPD channels, so they could be cleared in on the radio (like how you hear Vista FD on Sheriffs), but was told that not even FD would be allowed to monitor PII as they are not CLETS authorized.

Being as this is no longer simply a decision made at the department or agency level as to allow monitoring of communications, but instead a STATE MANDATE, (100% encryption not mandated, but you know what I mean) means the media and others who wish to be informed of what their law enforcement agencies are doing to really band together to create a new way of obtaining and processing real time or near real-time information access from these agencies. In the same way that COVID changed public health and freedoms, state mandated CLETS encryption needs a complete change of the system. Mandated encryption is not the same as a listener just missing a call going out, and shouldn't be handled the same way. A wall has been dropped between the public and the police, and a door or gate must be provided, even if there is a lock or keypad or TSA agent checking bags at the door/gate, we need something.

Paul

 

[JKPHOTO]

I have found that the App. Next Door can be useful for obtaining news. Real time events of happenings and observations in various neighborhoods. Residential will see many police cars at a scene and report the activities. Not a solution, but a tool until things improve with comms, if ever.

 

[Anderegg]

You would be surprised at the amount of stories that only get told because some subscriber to a stringers channels (YouTube, Insta, TikTok etc) sends them a message!

Paul

 

[JKPHOTO]

I agree, but with the good that can from social media comes a few draw backs.
Sometimes I have seen YouTube contributors post many marginally news worthy stories to obtain the hits and likes and I assume revenue from ads. The news angle could be diluted and have changed the business as I knew it.
In the past, I would shoot various angles, wide, tight, medium and a official or witness soundbite. It seems now it much more hit and run, then upload. But things have changed now, but better, I am not convinced yet. The need for speed.