San Francisco Public Safety going Digital June 2021

William2910

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
851
Location
Land of entrapment
I would imagine most are going to follow that setup and secure it all.

On the other hand with tons of their analog system radios out there unaccounted for as seen on YouTube videos in auction cars fully functional it is a wonder they never had issues. Its going to be interesting if they do the same thing and surplus a unit with a end capable radio with key loaded still and talkgroup data. Not uncommon out there.

I have come across old p25 gear with keys loaded still and sure enough a agency still uses same data in them which I'd notify them.

Most can expect with our current times for LE to go this route however in majority of places with the budgets, or others will go to mdts and or first net tablets.
 

mlangeveld

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
618
Location
Marin County, CA
if it's full encryption, it doesn't matter what scanner you have because you won't be able to pick up anything...
I would guess that only law enforcement will be encrypted. Fire and other city services will probably be in the clear.

On the other hand with tons of their analog system radios out there unaccounted for as seen on YouTube videos in auction cars fully functional it is a wonder they never had issues.
I've never heard of this. Examples?
 

William2910

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
851
Location
Land of entrapment
I would guess that only law enforcement will be encrypted. Fire and other city services will probably be in the clear.



I've never heard of this. Examples?
Crown Rick auto is one off head. There is a couple others buying surplus units that have not just the heads in them but entire brick programmed which a couple videos they have it on. One switches talkgroups as well. There was a auditor type that does live YouTube shows going to calls which he has a defunct vic that has a radio on its system which he made joke of before it came with the car. Been a while but I'm sure they are on tube somewhere.
 

mlangeveld

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
618
Location
Marin County, CA
Crown Rick auto is one off head. There is a couple others buying surplus units that have not just the heads in them but entire brick programmed which a couple videos they have it on. One switches talkgroups as well. There was a auditor type that does live YouTube shows going to calls which he has a defunct vic that has a radio on its system which he made joke of before it came with the car. Been a while but I'm sure they are on tube somewhere.
I've seen Crown Rick Auto's channel, but I haven't seen any videos with a working SFPD radio.
 

footage

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 20, 2004
Messages
150
Location
Pacific Rim
The DTIS techs are testing RSSI at various locations. Interesting to watch a system slowly coming together. I remember them doing this when the analog trunking system was being shaken down in 1999. I first started listening to SFPD in 1971 on a little portable RS lowband "Patrolman" and here we are 50 years later.
 

footage

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 20, 2004
Messages
150
Location
Pacific Rim
SFPD A11 is simulcasting in the clear this evening on TG 823 (multiplied by 16 = 13168, the old analog TG). Some SFFD units are on the new system as well, including TGs 36115 and 36116, not previously identified by posters. Radio techs were active today on DTIS talkgroups testing the system, lots of counting down and up. A few new TGs heard today, many in the range used by DPW but not previously listed.
 

rustyhodge

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
31
Location
San Francisco
What are the drawbacks to running in full encrypted mode? Is there any difference in audio quality / bandwidth? (I would assume not).

Just wondering if there is any reason not to encrypt everything (aside from key management).
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
15,858
Location
SNCZCA01DS0
What are the drawbacks to running in full encrypted mode? Is there any difference in audio quality / bandwidth? (I would assume not).
No. It just rearranges the 1's and 0's. No difference in audio quality, bandwidth or coverage.

Just wondering if there is any reason not to encrypt everything (aside from key management).
Where it can be an issue is with interoperability, but that is completely manageable with a good plan. Or, lack of proper planning is not a strike against encryption. It just means someone who's getting paid to do this stuff didn't do their job. That's an HR issue, not an encryption issue.

Key management is handled in various ways, and the big radio "M"anufacturers are more than happy to sell you systems to help with key management.
 

rooivalk

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
142
Location
E.B.A.
Rumor updates: Public Works will be the first to transition over. Then PD, TDMA only, with encryption only during certain incidents, certain "tactical" channels, etc. There was an option of going encrypted via handheld, only for over the air record checks, but that hasnt been determined. Apparently, normal dispatching will be in the clear, except for TDMA.
 

footage

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 20, 2004
Messages
150
Location
Pacific Rim
Seems as if new radios are coming online one by one. Public Works is active on the new system at night. Fire seems to be simulcasting some TGs. There is a mixture of TDMA and regular P25 on the system right now. There are a few new TGs in the range occupied by SFPD, but I have no definite usage to share yet.
 

footage

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 20, 2004
Messages
150
Location
Pacific Rim
Watching the system come online: some notes.

I've heard voice traffic (sometimes only tests) on these TGs. Some of them correspond closely, if not exactly, to existing TGs on the analog system. Some are new. I'm not yet submitting this to the DB because so many are unconfirmed.

There are four poorly formatted columns in the following list, which mean:

New TG TG multiplied by 16 to yield old analog TG, if relevant Old Alpha Tag Description

27 432 enc SFPD?
35 560 enc SFPD?
59 944 enc SFPD?
61 976 enc SFPD?
803 12848 SFPD A1
805 12880 SFPD A2
807 12912 SFPD A3
811 12976 SFPD A5
813 13008 SFPD A6
815 13040 SFPD A7
823 13168 SFPD A11
824 13184 new, probably SFPD
826 13216 new, probably SFPD
828 13248 new, probably SFPD
845 13520 EVENT 1 All City Event 1
847 13552 EVENT 2 All City Event 2
849 13584 SAFEVT 1 Public Safety Event 1
857 13712 SFPD B3 Tactical B3
925 14800 SFFD A1
927 14832 SFFD A2
929 14864 SFFD A3
939 15024 SFPD A8 Tactical A8 - Battalion 8
946 15136 new, probably SFFD
959 15344 SFFD EMS4 EMS 4 / FD-B16 - Private Ambulances
992 15872 SFSO new, in SFSO block
1017 16272 SFSD A16 DISP Patrol Dispatch / SF General
1089 17424 OES 1 Office of Emergency Services 1
1091 17456 OES 1 Office of Emergency Services 2
1103 17648 DTIS 1 Telecomms & Info Services 1
1104 17664 new, in DTIS block
1105 17680 DTIS 1 Telecomms & Info Services 2
1107 17712 PUB-SAFETY Telecomms & Info Services 3 - Public Safety
1108 17728 new, in DTIS block
1112 17792 new, in DTIS block
1571 25136 SF USD 1 San Francisco Unified School District 1 (Maintenance A)
1603 25648 ANIMAL Animal Control
1645 26320 CAO 1 Chief Administrators Office 1 Special
3005 48080 RADIO-1 Radio Service 1
3007 48112 RADIO-2 Radio Service 2
3021 48336 Port Admin Port Authority - Admin
3025 48400 Port Maint Port Authority - Maintenance
3125 50000 Library 1 SF Public Library 1 - Security
3127 50032 Library 2 SF Public Library 2
3129 50064 Library 3 SF Public Library 3
3131 50096 Library 4 SF Public Library 4
4041 64656 DPW23 RE1 Real Estate 1
4045 64720 DPW21 HOJ Hall of Justice Engineering
4053 64848 DPW17 Rep/Mt Buildings Repair and Maintenance
4055 64880 DPW16 Sewer1 Wastewater Sewer Ops 1
4057 64912 DPW16 Sewer1 Wastewater Sewer Ops 2
4061 64976 DPW13 Street Street and Environmental Services 4
4063 65008 DPW12 Bldg 2 Building Repair 2
4071 65136 DPW 8 EMERG DPW Emergency
4075 65200 DPW 6 UrbFor Urban Forestry
4077 65232 DPW 5 St/Ev2 Street and Environmental Services 2
4079 65264 DPW 4 Bldg 1 Building Repair 1
4081 65296 DPW 3 StSew1 Street and Sewer Repair 1
4083 65328 2-BSES DPW 2 Bureau of Street and Environmental Services
4085 65360 1-CONTROL DPW 1 Dispatch
35120 --- SFFD (P25 Phase 1)
35121 --- fire interop with Oakland FD in BART tunnel (P25 Phase 1)
36115 --- SFFD? (P25 Phase 1)
36116 --- SFFD? (P25 Phase 1)
60102 --- Fire Dispatch (Automated) -- great new TG that activates between 400 and 600 times each 24 hrs
60103 --- Testing "DAQ" (Delivered Audio Quality)
 

mcjones2013

Radio Communications Enthusiast
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
485
Watching the system come online: some notes.

I've heard voice traffic (sometimes only tests) on these TGs. Some of them correspond closely, if not exactly, to existing TGs on the analog system. Some are new. I'm not yet submitting this to the DB because so many are unconfirmed.

There are four poorly formatted columns in the following list, which mean:

New TG TG multiplied by 16 to yield old analog TG, if relevant Old Alpha Tag Description

27 432 enc SFPD?
35 560 enc SFPD?
59 944 enc SFPD?
61 976 enc SFPD?
803 12848 SFPD A1
805 12880 SFPD A2
807 12912 SFPD A3
811 12976 SFPD A5
813 13008 SFPD A6
815 13040 SFPD A7
823 13168 SFPD A11
824 13184 new, probably SFPD
826 13216 new, probably SFPD
828 13248 new, probably SFPD
845 13520 EVENT 1 All City Event 1
847 13552 EVENT 2 All City Event 2
849 13584 SAFEVT 1 Public Safety Event 1
857 13712 SFPD B3 Tactical B3
925 14800 SFFD A1
927 14832 SFFD A2
929 14864 SFFD A3
939 15024 SFPD A8 Tactical A8 - Battalion 8
946 15136 new, probably SFFD
959 15344 SFFD EMS4 EMS 4 / FD-B16 - Private Ambulances
992 15872 SFSO new, in SFSO block
1017 16272 SFSD A16 DISP Patrol Dispatch / SF General
1089 17424 OES 1 Office of Emergency Services 1
1091 17456 OES 1 Office of Emergency Services 2
1103 17648 DTIS 1 Telecomms & Info Services 1
1104 17664 new, in DTIS block
1105 17680 DTIS 1 Telecomms & Info Services 2
1107 17712 PUB-SAFETY Telecomms & Info Services 3 - Public Safety
1108 17728 new, in DTIS block
1112 17792 new, in DTIS block
1571 25136 SF USD 1 San Francisco Unified School District 1 (Maintenance A)
1603 25648 ANIMAL Animal Control
1645 26320 CAO 1 Chief Administrators Office 1 Special
3005 48080 RADIO-1 Radio Service 1
3007 48112 RADIO-2 Radio Service 2
3021 48336 Port Admin Port Authority - Admin
3025 48400 Port Maint Port Authority - Maintenance
3125 50000 Library 1 SF Public Library 1 - Security
3127 50032 Library 2 SF Public Library 2
3129 50064 Library 3 SF Public Library 3
3131 50096 Library 4 SF Public Library 4
4041 64656 DPW23 RE1 Real Estate 1
4045 64720 DPW21 HOJ Hall of Justice Engineering
4053 64848 DPW17 Rep/Mt Buildings Repair and Maintenance
4055 64880 DPW16 Sewer1 Wastewater Sewer Ops 1
4057 64912 DPW16 Sewer1 Wastewater Sewer Ops 2
4061 64976 DPW13 Street Street and Environmental Services 4
4063 65008 DPW12 Bldg 2 Building Repair 2
4071 65136 DPW 8 EMERG DPW Emergency
4075 65200 DPW 6 UrbFor Urban Forestry
4077 65232 DPW 5 St/Ev2 Street and Environmental Services 2
4079 65264 DPW 4 Bldg 1 Building Repair 1
4081 65296 DPW 3 StSew1 Street and Sewer Repair 1
4083 65328 2-BSES DPW 2 Bureau of Street and Environmental Services
4085 65360 1-CONTROL DPW 1 Dispatch
35120 --- SFFD (P25 Phase 1)
35121 --- fire interop with Oakland FD in BART tunnel (P25 Phase 1)
36115 --- SFFD? (P25 Phase 1)
36116 --- SFFD? (P25 Phase 1)
60102 --- Fire Dispatch (Automated) -- great new TG that activates between 400 and 600 times each 24 hrs
60103 --- Testing "DAQ" (Delivered Audio Quality)
If you have a Google account, along with Google Chrome, I'd suggest using Google Sheets for your research. Copying the rows and columns from Google Sheets (while using Chrome) into the forums keeps the rows and columns formatting clean and equal, if that makes sense.
 

footage

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 20, 2004
Messages
150
Location
Pacific Rim
Offhand, does anyone know the frequency or designator for the two-tone alert SFFD is using on TG 60102?
 

stingray327

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
1,798
Location
San Francisco, California bay area
The DTIS techs are testing RSSI at various locations. Interesting to watch a system slowly coming together. I remember them doing this when the analog trunking system was being shaken down in 1999. I first started listening to SFPD in 1971 on a little portable RS lowband "Patrolman" and here we are 50 years later.
I used to also monitor in 1974 started out with a Lafayette Guardian 6000 multi-band AM/FM/VHF HI and LO with UHF. Now I have a Home Patrol II and a BCT 436 handheld but does this mean now I will no longer be able to monitor SFPD or SFFD or any of their public service radios with my new Uniden scanners?
 
Top