Scanning in NY (Ideas about the Law)

[mshumeyk]

Not to further muddy the waters, but new wireless technology developed since the no-scanner-in-vehicle law was first written does raise some interesting questions. For example, what about dialing your cellphone from home, placing the home phone next to your home scanner, and then going out for a drive with the cellphone on speaker? Obviously no PD officer would know you were listening to scanner transmissions unless you left it on for him to hear, but still, how would the law apply if it was determined you were listening to PD communications via a cellphone?

In our area we have a wonderful on-line scanner with display of frequency and agency through the ARC Easy Stream software. Anyone with a laptop containing Verizon Wireless Broadband card has the equivalent of a fully functional local scanner that works in the car as well as anywhere the cellular service is available.

The above examples certainly raise questions about the law as it stands. Laptops and cellphones cannot receive public safety frequencies, but as shown above they can receive public safety communications through rebroadcasts of those transmissions . Are cellphones and laptops with wireless broadband going to become illegal in vehicles in NY State? I doubt it. Perhaps how you use the equipment will be more important than simply possessing it (the trucker and NOAA weather radio example).

I am not an attorney and don't have any answers. Just wanted to share some food for thought!

MVS

 

[DaveNF2G]

The law as written would not apply. There is no separate offense defined in the statute for actually monitoring police frequencies from a car.

 

[tonybx]

Police Scanner?

I don't know why you would describe your scanner as a Police scanner? It also receives Fire Department, EMS, Utilites Companies, Air Port, ect. You could name it any one of these too but most of us don't. I just call it a scanner. I think once you said Police Scanner to be honest with you, you set yourself up for trouble.

I recently went to the Empire State Building with my Yasue VX 6R(by the way I've all ways lived in New York City and now live in the boro of the Bronx). Went through the security check and the only comments made to me by security was "You sure do carry alot of elecltronics with you.", because I had my iPod, pda, and cell phone. Once on top of the Empire State building I talked with my ham buddies on 440 mhz. But interestingly enough, my cell phone failed to worked and as a result I missed talking to my twin brother (I had told him I would call him when I got to the top on the cell phone so that we could then talk on 440 mhz). A guard may have looked at me with interest, but I was not told anything.

As an aside, when I am in a place monitoring their frequencies (like Target, Best Buy, Costco, the malls, Empire State buidling, the hospital where I work, the security frequencies of the place I live, police frequencies, or just in general; I have my earphones or head phones on so I don't peak their interest. They assume that I am listening to music. And If I want to be really careful, I have a fake out wire running to my ipod so that they really think I am listening to music.
I listen to those frequencies to be informed and nosey, not to get caught or have to waste time having to explain myself. If you had the volume so that they could hear you, then it drew their interest and it made you the focus of their attention, possiblyy costing you your scanner, money, and time. I know that you did not know, but I think being stealthy will always serve you right, unless the idea is to draw attention to yourself. Happy Frequency listneing. Take Care.
Later dude
Tony
kb2jyn

 

[wyldman]

Just to clarify a bit, as I am also a LEO.
Scanners are NOT illegal in NYS. They ARE Illegal in a MOTOR VEHICLE (NOTE: A bicycle is NOT a motor vehicle under NYS VTL, so the guy on a bike can be listening to the scanner in plain view, the guy in the car next to him can get arrested).
Possession in a car is a MISDEMEANOR, which is a CRIME. You can be subject to arrest, not just confiscation.

Sorry to dig up this old thread,but could someone clarify if it is illegal to have a scanner in the car,or just if you are listening to it ?

I now have to travel for business thru NY with both mobile and portable scanners in my car (and some Moto gear),and I'm a little worried it could get me in trouble.There are NY police frequencies in the radios,but I do not have them on while driving thru NY.I don't really want to pull out all my equipment just to drive thru NY.

 

[CloroxCowboy]

You could program your scanner in the car with everything except police and would not run afoul of the language of the rule?

 

[DaveNF2G]

The law says it is illegal to equip a motor vehicle with a receiver that is capable of receiving police frequencies.

Equip has been enforced as if it means possess.

Capable of has been interpreted to mean that it can be programmed, not necessarily that it is programmed with police freqs.

 

[chrismol1]

The ONE place in NY where you CANNOT bring your scanner is NEW YORK CITY, everywhere else its okay as long as you have your ham license with you, but then probably the officer will have to dig through his book of laws. In NYC, its too sensative with that kinda stuff. too much terrorism ****
Nice way to bring up a 2 yr old thread as well I feel it will serve something with these threads around, arise the awareness of this crappy law that has so many holes that Spongebob cant even compare

 

[GTR8000]

The ONE place in NY where you CANNOT bring your scanner is NEW YORK CITY, everywhere else its okay as long as you have your ham license with you, but then probably the officer will have to dig through his book of laws. In NYC, its too sensative with that kinda stuff. too much terrorism ****
Nice way to bring up a 2 yr old thread as well I feel it will serve something with these threads around, arise the awareness of this crappy law that has so many holes that Spongebob cant even compare

Incorrect. There is no such NYC law/statute/code forbidding possession/use of a scanner (notwithstanding a device intended to descramble encrypted communications).

As a matter of fact, there is actually a provision in the NYC Administrative Code that can override the State law forbidding mobile scanner use. The city, under the authority of the police commissioner, can issue a permit for such use. $25 fee at last check, and not easy to obtain.

This is precisely why people are always so confused over these matters, because there are those who have no clue what they're talking about who propagate these myths and urban legends, without ever researching the FACTS before spouting off at the mouth. :roll:

 

[n2mdk]

The ONE place in NY where you CANNOT bring your scanner is NEW YORK CITY, everywhere else its okay as long as you have your ham license with you, but then probably the officer will have to dig through his book of laws. In NYC, its too sensative with that kinda stuff. too much terrorism ****
Nice way to bring up a 2 yr old thread as well I feel it will serve something with these threads around, arise the awareness of this crappy law that has so many holes that Spongebob cant even compare

A scanner isn't covered under the FCC rule that allows HAMs to have a transceiver in their car that can pick up public service frequencies. There is also no NYS law that allows a person holding an Amateur Radio License to have a scanner or any other radio in their vehicle that can receive these frequencies.

From the ARRL
PR Docket 91-36 is the federal preemption of state and local laws concerning amateur use of transceivers capable of reception beyond amateur allocations. This preemption allows amateurs to possess a transceiver capable of reception (but not transmission) on frequencies adjoining the amateur VHF/UHF bands. It does not apply to scanners which are separate from an amateur transceiver.

http://www.arrl.org/announce/regulatory/pr91-36/pr91-36.html

 

[chrismol1]

I'm soo incorrect, then tell it to the cop why your exactly trying to monitor their frequencies. I've been in NYC with scanners before. I know
i mean, you could try but to save yourself HASSLE leave them behind in your hotel room
I cant wait to get arrested someday as I live in upstate NY with lots of scanners, I'll tell them "I've been waiting for this day a long time, where have ya been"

 

[CloroxCowboy]

The law says it is illegal to equip a motor vehicle with a receiver that is capable of receiving police frequencies.

Equip has been enforced as if it means possess.

Capable of has been interpreted to mean that it can be programmed, not necessarily that it is programmed with police freqs.

Not being argumentative, but just asking...

Wouldn't that also scoop up every two-way radio user using UHF equipment? For example, a limo service. It is not programmed with PD , but can be. Is there some sort of room to maneuver?

 

[n2mdk]

I lived in NYC for 48 of my 53 years have had radios both scanners and HTs capable of receiving NYPD carried them with me all over the place, never once was I hassled. I've used them in cars, on buses even in the subway. I;ve never had to explain why I had the radio with me even after 9/11 it really isn't a high priority.

 

[GTR8000]

I'm soo incorrect, then tell it to the cop why your exactly trying to monitor their frequencies. I've been in NYC with scanners before. I know
i mean, you could try but to save yourself HASSLE leave them behind in your hotel room
I cant wait to get arrested someday as I live in upstate NY with lots of scanners, I'll tell them "I've been waiting for this day a long time, where have ya been"

And yet you still haven't posted any FACTS to back up your claim. Bottom line: It is NOT illegal in NYC to possess/operate a scanner, aside from the motor vehicle restriction. Stop trying to pass off your OPINION as fact.

 

[MaxMan1986]

I'm soo incorrect, then tell it to the cop why your exactly trying to monitor their frequencies. I've been in NYC with scanners before. I know
i mean, you could try but to save yourself HASSLE leave them behind in your hotel room
I cant wait to get arrested someday as I live in upstate NY with lots of scanners, I'll tell them "I've been waiting for this day a long time, where have ya been"

Can you translate that into English? I've just re-read this post several times and I seriously have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

[hntsgt]

As a matter of fact, there is actually a provision in the NYC Administrative Code that can override the State law forbidding mobile scanner use. The city, under the authority of the police commissioner, can issue a permit for such use. $25 fee at last check, and not easy to obtain.

Actually, can the NYC admin code trump the NYS law?
Does anyone actually know someone who has such a permit. I don't think they have issued any of these permits since the 1970's. When I worked in 1PP I had made some inquiries and no one knew who actually issued the permits. The closest anyone could guess was DCPI but no one knew for sure.

 

[Thunderknight]

Does anyone actually know someone who has such a permit. I don't think they have issued any of these permits since the 1970's. When I worked in 1PP I had made some inquiries and no one knew who actually issued the permits. The closest anyone could guess was DCPI but no one knew for sure.

Check out a posting at N2NOV regarding this. It's a rather long list of requirements.
http://www.n2nov.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=48&sid=1d4d4203b7a335533ed7c749144617f4

 

[DaveNF2G]

From the ARRL
PR Docket 91-36 is the federal preemption of state and local laws concerning amateur use of transceivers capable of reception beyond amateur allocations. This preemption allows amateurs to possess a transceiver capable of reception (but not transmission) on frequencies adjoining the amateur VHF/UHF bands. It does not apply to scanners which are separate from an amateur transceiver.

http://www.arrl.org/announce/regulatory/pr91-36/pr91-36.html

That is the ARRL lawyers' opinion. I disagree.

Historically, ham stations have consisted of a transmitter and a receiver. Even modern stations do not always have those two items in the same box. A scanner is as much a legitimate part of a licensed ham station as is a general coverage shortwave receiver.

 

[radionerd13669]

Bottom line It is only illegal in NYS to have a scanner in your vehical.Dont try to interpit the law any other way.Just read it the way it is this is NYS dont you know

 

[DaveNF2G]

As a matter of fact, there is actually a provision in the NYC Administrative Code that can override the State law forbidding mobile scanner use. The city, under the authority of the police commissioner, can issue a permit for such use. $25 fee at last check, and not easy to obtain.

Actually, can the NYC admin code trump the NYS law?
Does anyone actually know someone who has such a permit. I don't think they have issued any of these permits since the 1970's. When I worked in 1PP I had made some inquiries and no one knew who actually issued the permits. The closest anyone could guess was DCPI but no one knew for sure.

The Admin Code does not "override" V&T. It is consistent with a provision that is largely ignored in the "can hams have scanners?" discussion. Section 397 says that a permit or some listed exemption is required.

 

[GTR8000]

Sorry, "override" was a poor choice of words. Naturally the NYC code is in harmony with this part of the NYS law:

...without having first secured a permit so to do from the person authorized to issue such a permit by the local governing body or board of the city, town or village in which such person resides...