scanning legality question

[Voyager]

To a holder of a valid amature radio operator OR a station license issued by the FCC.

Since the Amateur station license is issued by the FCC, you could just as easily argue that the 'amateur radio operator' phrase is irrelevant and repetative. All Amateur Radio Licenses consist of an operator and a station license.

So, since the law doesn't simply lump the Amateur Station license in with the other station licenses, it's only reasonable to conclude that the OR is part of the AMATEUR license.

If it had meant anything beside the Amatuer license, it would have said "To a holder of a valid amature radio operator OR OTHER station license issued by the FCC."

All that is certain is that it's a very poorly written law. If push comes to shove, there is a reasonable debate over the meaning that the courts could 'have fun with'.

Joe M.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I Think the wording is such as stations licensed by the FCC and Amature Radio Operaters. A GMRS license is a FCC issued license.

This is the exemption paragraph taken from the FL Scanner law.

This section shall not apply to any holder of a valid amateur
radio operator or station license issued by the Federal
Communications Commission or to any recognized newspaper or news
publication engaged in covering the news on a full-time basis or
any alarm system contractor certified pursuant to Part II of
Chapter 489, Operating a Central Monitoring System.

Sorry, but you've parsed the law incorrectly. The whole sentence belongs together; the part about "station license" is not separate from the part about "amateur radio operator" in the Florida statute.

The FCC issues both operator and station licenses to ham radio operators. The callsign is actually issued to the station. The operator may control any ham station but must select frequencies in accordance with his/her class of license.

 

[N_Jay]

42

 

[n4yek]

Taking it out of context?

Read what it says.

This section shall not apply to any holder of a valid amateur
radio operator or station license issued by the Federal
Communications Commission or to any recognized newspaper or news
publication engaged in covering the news on a full-time basis or
any alarm system contractor certified pursuant to Part II of
Chapter 489, Operating a Central Monitoring System.

If you are looking at it in that perspective, then Florida could remove the
words..."valid amateur radio operator or"... from the law books.
Then I would say you are correct, but your not!
You don't have to worry about this argument anyway, if you tried it and
failed all you would do would be to whip out your amateur radio license
and show them. That would get YOU off the hook, not one whom holds
a GMRS license.
It's not legal and Florida will tell you that too.

Danny
N4YEK

 

[loumaag]

:lol:

42

At first I thought you left the "10-" off then I realized you were just practicing your math skills. :lol:

 

[N_Jay]

:lol:

42

At first I thought you left the "10-" off then I realized you were just practicing your math skills. :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Answer_to_Life,_the_Universe,_and_Everything

It was sarcasm.

The argumnent above is as meaningfull as "42" is as the answer to the meaning of life.

Sorry I had to explain it.

 

[ILbandit]

Re: Fla statutes

Its not illegal to have a scanner in your vehicle...period.
What is illegal is the use of any vehicle power or antenna connection to a scanner regardless of its a handheld or mobile.
Use a handheld or even a mobile in a bag with self contained power and an antenna ... you are legal.
Attach either a handheld or mobile to the vehicles power, even thru a cigarette lighter or external antenna connection..... illegal.

I know this is "grey area",

Here is the scenario,,,, You get stopped, and you have a scanner "mounted" in the vehicle, (attached with a bracket)

If you don't have it plugged into the power cord, or have the external antenna actually hooked up, is it illegal?

I know it's pretty obvious what you are doing, but just curious if the this is a "loop hole" :?:

 

[bsavery]

Re: Fla statutes

Its not illegal to have a scanner in your vehicle...period.
What is illegal is the use of any vehicle power or antenna connection to a scanner regardless of its a handheld or mobile.
Use a handheld or even a mobile in a bag with self contained power and an antenna ... you are legal.
Attach either a handheld or mobile to the vehicles power, even thru a cigarette lighter or external antenna connection..... illegal.

I know this is "grey area",

Here is the scenario,,,, You get stopped, and you have a scanner "mounted" in the vehicle, (attached with a bracket)

If you don't have it plugged into the power cord, or have the external antenna actually hooked up, is it illegal?

I know it's pretty obvious what you are doing, but just curious if the this is a "loop hole" :?:

Ya'll are missing the practical part of this. If your stopped and the officer questions the scanner, what happens at that point depends entirely on the conversation you have with him and HIS understanding of the law. Right or wrong, you could loose the scanner and end up with a citation (or worse). And if the prosecuter agrees and proceeds, now your talking about going before a judge.... which means a lawyer. Which means a bundle of cash. Even if you ultimately win, your still out a bundle of cash.

So.. if you think you have the perfect loophole, and a chunk of change burning a hole in your pocket... feel free to try it out. Me... I'll make sure I have a Amateur License and a copy of the statute with me or just leave the scanner at home!

Hmmm... or mount it in the trunk and use one of those wireless earpieces! 8)

Bob

 

[n4voxgill]

If its mounted, its installed. If its connected to the cars electrical system, its installed. If its connected to the car through and antenna that is connected to the car, it is installed. This is very simple.

 

[SCPD]

Its all in the interpretation of what is written.

Yup. I'll agree and add one extra word to that statement. "It's all in the judge's interpretation of what is written." Back to the original quote ...

This section shall not apply to any holder of a valid amateur
radio operator or station license issued by the Federal
Communications Commission ...

This can be interpreted as one of several ways. I'll use parenthesis to emphasize each interpretation.

This section shall not apply to any holder of a valid amateur
radio (operator or station) license issued by the Federal
Communications Commission ...

If you read it as emphasized above ... then you need to be a ham with either an operator or station license. AFAIK, those are the only two kinds of ham licenses so ... if this was the meaning, then why did the laymakers include these three words? They could could have said "valid amateur radio license" and been done with it.

This section shall not apply to any holder of a (valid amateur
radio operator) or (station) license issued by the Federal
Communications Commission ...

The above example now means ham operator license or (any) station license. There are of course many kinds of station licenses. Swell. But if the lawmakers meant this as the meaning, they could have said "valid amateur operator license or station license". Inserting that extra word would have cleared this up.

Now just to point out the absurdity of language I'll add one more ...

This section shall not apply to any holder of a (valid amateur
radio operator) or (station license) issued by the Federal
Communications Commission ...

Read the above ... as emphasized. If I take this as the true meaning then if I grab and hold a ham radio operator ... then I can run my scanner in my car (plugged into the cigarette lighter). Can I put the ham operator in the trunk or must the person ride along with me as a passenger?

The scary thing is people are inclined to choose which ever meaning they like most which may not be the same as what lawmakers intended or a judge's interpretation.

-rick

 

[ILbandit]

Correct me if I'm wrong on this... (I'm sure someone will :lol: )

From my experience with law enforcement, most of them on the state, county, and city level aren't real worried about the scanner laws. If you get pulled over for a traffic stop. A scanner isn't the first priority on their mind. As long as you don't have it playing loudly in the back ground as you talk with them, or are real obvious, or blatent about it, I don't think most of them are too worried about it.
I think they have more important things to worry about than that.

disclaimer: this is just from my experience in my state. might be alot different in others. ( no flames please )

 

[Ten7traffic]

Reference the scanning law, if you read the law in your city/state it probably says something to the effect of (as far as radio licensing) **AMATEUR** radio license, which is not at all a GMRS license. In your city or state law, it may state different. Here where I live, it clearly states AMATEUR, and may state different where you live. If it in fact is questionable read your city/state scanner law.

 

[K5MAR]

RFMobile, my "guess" would be that some legislative staffer looked at Part 97 when this law was being drafted and saw that it mentioned operator and station license, so that's what was put into the state law. I've noticed, looking that other state's laws, that others just say something along the lines of valid amateur radio license with no mention of operator or station. And there are a few that say the license must be Technician class or higher.

I like Oklahoma's law, if you are found to be violating the law while in possession of an operating scanner, say bye-bye scanner. So much simpler.

Mark S.

 

[ChgoHam]

Thank god I got my license!

I've also heard that there are some coppers that will confiscate your gear and arrest you with charges anyway just because they feel like it. I was recently looking at the ordinance where I am at, and a Police Sgt. chimed in on the question. Although the ordinance says scanners are illegal, the ordinance does not make any exceptions, where as our state law has limited if any coverage of this matter and does provide exemptions.

 

[elk2370bruce]

Morale of the story (no matter where you live:
1. Know the law
2. Abide by it
3. Be nice to the guy with the smokey hat cause he's in control of the situation - not you. If you wanna play expert and get mouthy, your ass is gone and so is your scanner.

 

[WA4MJF]

The op and station license would come in to play in two situations:

1) Ths is the rare one, the Custodian of an Amateur Radio station,
who doesn't have to have an op ticket (the only person who can hold one
and not be a ham) could in the states that prohibit scanners, but use the
op or station would be ok. Bonus "points" if you know what kinda station
this is!

2) The more common, a club owns a vehicle, like my club CSC, for example,
the club only holds a Station license through an appointed trustee. If NC had
scanner laws, they don't, and the law specified only op license then CSC
could not have a scanner, if it said op OR station license then it could.

73 de Ronnie

 

[n1das]

I live in Gainesville (Alachua county), Florida. this is the official statement from the county for the smartzone system: (The City and County is not releasing any details regarding the system, and is restricting monitoring access to only authorized news media, ham operators, and others who the state indicates are legal listeners to mobile scanners in the state of Florida.) I think the keyword there is mobile, but i listen at home (pro2096) and in my truck (pro96) all the time, am I breaking this rule? If so what could happen? Any input is appreciated.

Here's a solution if you're a licensed ham: Listen using your mobile ham 2-way equipment instead of mobile scanners.

If you're a licensed ham, do all of your monitoring using the out of band reception capabilities on your portable or mobile ham transceivers so that the federal preemption of state scanner laws applies. You're monitoring on your HAM transceiver, not on a mobile scanner.

If what you want to monitor is APCO-25 digital, then step up to the plate and get your own portable or mobile APCO-25 transceiver(s). Program in ham frequencies you normally use in the ham bands adjacent to the radio's "normal" VHF or UHF coverage and program all the non-ham frequencies you want to monitor as receive-only (i.e., transmit disabled). A lot of commercial 2-way equipment works fine on the ham bands adjacent to the radio's "normal" coverage. It technically still counts as your HAM transceiver and therefore the federal preemption of state scanner laws still applies.

 

[cristisphoto]

Morale of the story (no matter where you live:
1. Know the law
2. Abide by it
3. Be nice to the guy with the smokey hat cause he's in control of the situation - not you. If you wanna play expert and get mouthy, your ass is gone and so is your scanner.

SO true SOO true
But ya know I've found Swalling yer pride and Being talkative
Helps A LOT..
Just be Human and relate in that type of manner!!
Remember Contrary LOL to Popular Belief
"COps" are human too
and hence have fears, concerns
Etc
Crista

 

[elk2370bruce]

I would agree - to a point. Clamming up, excessive prattling, or "copping an attitude" is what gets you in trouble. Friendly is cool. I've actually demonstrated IRLP to a local when he asked what I could do with the radio. Hooked up to the Las Vegas node and let him participate in the QSO.

 

[Mozilla]

Scanner Law

Originally Posted by Mozilla
Its not illegal to have a scanner in your vehicle...period.
What is illegal is the use of any vehicle power or antenna connection to a scanner regardless of its a handheld or mobile.
Use a handheld or even a mobile in a bag with self contained power and an antenna ... you are legal.
Attach either a handheld or mobile to the vehicles power, even thru a cigarette lighter or external antenna connection..... illegal.

PLEASE realize this was a qoute from an older post... the statute changed and you can go re-read, its got some doozies... possession in a vehicle does come into question, forget about install or use, if you are not covered by an amateur license. Its a poorly written law and will somehow hopefully get addressed in the next years or so.

The one legal advisor has never responded with a finding and it was completely skipped at the new law briefing updates. They only reiterated use of scanners or radios while commiting crimes, which is an enhancment.