marksroberson
Member
yeah, about 35-40 units will be the max, the programming software states that narrow-band mode is 2.5 KHz, so I am sure I am just missing something.
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School Communications
- Thread starter marksroberson
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mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Right. 11K0F3E is narrow band FM, 2.5KHz deviation. That's the FM/analog you can/should license for.
When you apply, include these two emission designators, too. 7K60FXD, 7K60FXE
These are 2 slot DMR digital. Even though you do not have DMR radios -now- you may eventually. Doing the paper work now rather than later will make life easier. Eventually DMR may be where you want to go. No crime in being licensed for it but not using it.
Governmental agencies are exempt from FCC fees but not coordination fees. If your school is a public school, they may well be a governmental agency. (They are here but ymmv.)
Non-governmental agencies are generally charged FCC fees so don’t be surprised if they turn you down.
All this is explained on the ULS web site.
Most of us usually request more units than we’re planning on. That gives you space for growth without refiling. In your case, I would request 50 mobiles.
There's a school ham club, I think it might be called "The Radio Club of Junior High 22", that's always advertising for donations in ham magazines--I'm curious if they might be a good informational resource for radio communications in school environments?Hello all,
I have a question and this is the only forum sub that i could find suitable, so I wouldn't be surprised if it is moved.
I work at a Private High School in Birmingham, AL during the summer (IT Manager, Maintenance, and Security are all on my ID card as my position)
I installed a phone system last summer that is just a home phone system with additional handsets paired up, it has a "intercom" system but it is not easily accessible to use and its not easy to use. It is easier to walk from the front desk to the back office if you need to tell them something.
When Toys-R-Us went under, our local store gave me about 8 BC-95 radios, these are UHF portables and I purchased a programming cable and have them all talking to each other now. Currently programmed on GMRS low power, as I used some of them last year and it was an extremely easy and effective way for staff to get a hold of me if they needed something, and it wasn't a big deal if I dropped it or something (unlike my phone)
I was wondering if, I can use these radios on the business band or "Dot" channels like Yellow dot: 464.55 or something else on the UHF business frequency chart.
Do I need a license for this? I am aware of many stores use this frequency area for communications, and I would like to get some to the school and purchase a couple of more for them to use. (Also, if its important, The school has a business license since it is a private school, its also a non-profit)
Also to make it not so easy for kids not to bring FRS radios from home and disrupt comms (yep, that happened before I worked there, the school got about 20 FRS bubble pack radios and thought it was "Secure") I could also put on DCS or CTCSS EN/DEcode on it as well.
**ALSO, if anyone has any of these radios, or knows where I can get replacement parts PLEASE LET ME KNOW. some of these units have PTT buttons missing, some need new batteries, etc. But I have found a good ebay seller who sells them complete with chargers, antennas, etc all in working order. I just have some from toys r us that are not in great shape. I am primarily looking for PTT buttons though. I am aware that they sell accessory headsets with a built in mic and speaker but the staff would never use that.
marksroberson
Member
Okay, but do I have to file the same frequency twice? One for the portables and one for the mobiles with the power differences? I plan on putting CDM750s in the buses.
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There’s separate lines on the application for number of mobiles and number of portables and their respective power limits. I know you’re not doing a base station since you are looking at itinerant frequencies. On applications for other frequencies, each base station is a separate item on the application.
The bottom line is one application. That is it.
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
Uh, no. Ham clubs have zero relevancy in professional communications circles.
The O/P is headed down the right path, getting licensed/coordinated properly. Selecting subscribers is their next step. My choice would be Kenwood's low cost entry level NXDN NX-P500. NXDN digital means they can also encrypt for no additional cost. Something to consider with today's campus security concerns. The NX-P500 software is free from Kenwood, and the radios are very capable and priced within what analog jobsite portables are.
Another suggestion:
On the FCC ULS website you can look up and view other agency’s licenses. That will give you some. guidance as to what information is needed.
You can search their database any number of ways including frequency. Look up some of them and view the Reference Copy.
For starters, try one of the licenses that I maintain: KNFF434
A correction, you request a number of mobiles, but they don’t ask for handhelds. I believe the presumption is a handheld is considered a mobile.
Also, unless you can prove a very wide area of operation (think states or many counties) you may not qualify for itinerant frequencies particularly since you have a single center of operation, ie. your school campus.
Look at a number of licenses for the itinerant frequencies that you want to use. You will get a clear idea of all these details.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Good point. List price of $275, should be able to get it cheaper than that. Would require licensing for the NXDN emission designators, as opposed to just FM analog.
NXDN Very Narrow: 4K00F1E
NXDN Narrow: 8K30F1E
Analog FM: 11K0F3E
marksroberson
Member
Alright! thanks for all of everyone's input so far!
I plan on licensing : 464.5, 464.55, 469.5, 469.55 (Maybe 151.76 and 154.5275)
Emissions:
11K0F3E (Analog FM Narrow)
7K60FXD, 7K60FXE (2 Slot DMR)
4K00F1E (NXDN Very Narrow)
8K30F1E (NXDN Narrow)
(Just for future possibilities)
Logging as MOI
Asking for 50 units,
(5 Watt Handhelds, 25-30 Watt CDM750s)
Making sure everything is Part 90 Certified and narrow-band.
If I am missing anything, let me know. I assume I apply for the FRN as an organization>Private Sector>non-profit
I plan on licensing : 464.5, 464.55, 469.5, 469.55 (Maybe 151.76 and 154.5275)
Emissions:
11K0F3E (Analog FM Narrow)
7K60FXD, 7K60FXE (2 Slot DMR)
4K00F1E (NXDN Very Narrow)
8K30F1E (NXDN Narrow)
(Just for future possibilities)
Logging as MOI
Asking for 50 units,
(5 Watt Handhelds, 25-30 Watt CDM750s)
Making sure everything is Part 90 Certified and narrow-band.
If I am missing anything, let me know. I assume I apply for the FRN as an organization>Private Sector>non-profit
ecps92
Member
Why not add an FB2I on 464.5000 and 464.5500, it will allow you to go with a Repeater for the future
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
The COMSEC provided by these NXDN radios (albeit basic, it isn't AES-256), is enough for on site radios to be secure from say, an active shooter with a scanner or Chinese radio toting dweeb from nosing in or some pedo-perv in a bubble van getting the names of students. This has to be a consideration of any campus environment. COMSEC isn't just for cops with APX radios with todays' threat level to schools. The NX-P500 can be had for around $230-249 from most Kenwood dealers. Free KPG and a cheap cable and someone like the O/P can easily manage their fleet of radios without having to waste money at a dealer and make one template/codeplug easily writable to all the radios.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yeah, I'm using NexEdge trunking on 800MHz with the stock encryption. "Good enough" for what we do, and doesn't cost anything extra. Keeps the casual public from hearing personal info.
marksroberson
Member
Yeah, I was thinking about that, The school plans to expand the facility in the future, and I could see some problems eventually with comms from one end of the property to the other. Especially with all of the classrooms in between.
I will probably purchase a few to test for myself and will definitely consider it. This is a weird area of the city (before we had a gate, there were random people in the parking lot all the time, doing, well, you can imagine, almost everything, but now security is taken alot more seriously since I was hired.) and like I said, she wants to upgrade our camera system again, which I dont mind, considering I upgraded it last summer from 3 to 16, but now we need ALOT more. We had a student bring in a scanner once, and it was very annoying, we confiscated it. We even had the security guard before me using a UV-5R for comms for all of his side security jobs (he even offered to pay me to program it but i got him to buy a CP200 from me)
I plan on getting the VHF frequencies so I can put one of those Call boxes you see at hospitals at the front gate and allowing the main office to open/close the gate remotely along with being able to talk to the visitor. I believe the current gate keypad has a speaker, microphone, and button already in it going to pigtails, so I am sure i can hook it right up-- probably with one of those JobCom/Riton intercom boxes. Since the gate is not currently remote controlled, it stays open, which is a big security risk. Also, I have a camera out there, so that is another plus to confirm the visitors are "truthful". I am sure I can put a DTMF decoder at the gate so when the proper buttons are pressed on a radio, it can open the gate.
But like you said, it is a big risk for someone to sit nearby with a scanner and hear everything. I will definitely look further into secure Comms, but for now, during the summer when only some staff and I are working there, Conv. FM should be fine.
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
The only radios that should be operating under your license are those you provide or authorize, and certainly not some China com garbage with dubious certification.
It goes without saying as yet another school shooting is underway as I write this, that school safety should not rely on garbage pail hobby grade radios. Not that it means every high school principal should be toting an APX8K with AES-256, but low cost NXDN/DMR radios from reputable vendors are very affordable, and with the rest of your security enhancements, will go a long way to keeping your folks equipped to deal with...whatever may come.
RFI-EMI-GUY
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You said the school already has a UHF license. Why not operate under that license. Also the school already has a valid FRN to go with that license.
It seems you go to a lot of effort to save money or work outside the box. In the long run that might be inadvisable.
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marksroberson
Member
I am sorry, I have not been clear.
The school does not have an existing license.
The school has a business license to operate as a School facility.
The school does not have any kind of license issued by the FCC or an "Account"
I am sorry about the confusion, I was implying that I did not want to apply for a FRN because I thought they could operate under mine (I have Ham, GMRS on mine), but now I am applying for a new one for them.
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One question... If you're planning on Kenwood NXDN-capable portables, why the Motorola mobiles (which I don't believe are NXDN-capable)? I think you might be creating future problems for yourself. I also think that most would agree that Kenwood would be much easier / cheaper to deal with for software and accessories. Programming between different radios of the same manufacturer might also be easier than buying separate software and having to maintain separate codeplugs.
marksroberson
Member
I have some UHF CDMs From a Ham radio project, they will work for now, plus I have all of the programming stuff already, but I do Plan on eventually upgrading to NXDN, it sounds like the best option for the future. This forum has given me some great advice, some I don’t think I ever would have thought of since I was just asking about some Toys-R-Us radios
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