SDS100, not ideal for VHF?

[EAFrizzle]

Nice to see people DXing the NWS. Late night - early morning after a front passes and the winds die down usually brings in some interesting catches.

 

[trentbob]

Nice to see people DXing the NWS. Late night - early morning after a front passes and the winds die down usually brings in some interesting catches.

Yep propagation charts are affected by cold fronts and changes in weather, problem I have with being able to receive at least six NOAA Weather Radio Stations is, not because of ducting but because of location, I get such long range that I will receive two different stations on one frequency.

For example I'm on the Delaware River North of Philly border just south of Trenton New Jersey on the Pennsylvania side and I will receive 162.4 which is Atlantic City, New Jersey and Allentown PA, you literally hear both stations simultaneously.

I also search the VHF Federal bands as they have become so busy recently, especially in the early morning hours.. surprising reports of VHF simplex Tac channels actually being in the clear at times. Between Philly and Trenton things get very busy, mostly ICE.

I also enjoy listening to Aviation and have had very good results with the CAP around Philadelphia and Rehoboth Beach, Delaware.

My rooftop with my 200 is a Sputnik ground plane with LMR 400 that performs very well on VHF, UHF and 7-800.

 

[EAFrizzle]

Back in Houston, I had one good station, and two marginal ones. Some nights, I'd leave an SDR waterfall running on NWS just to watch the different stations come in and out. Here south of Dallas, I get 5 stations constantly, with the last two frequencies coming in with just a bit of enhancement.

I've also noticed up here that you can get some interesting propagation along a front as it moves through. Never noticed that in Houston.

 

[Brales60]

A simple Google search gave this list, NOAA Weather Radio will identify itself with its call sign on the left. You can always just Google the call sign. If you don't see the station you're listening to on this list then simply Google the call sign as it may be out of state.View attachment 177990

Thanks. I'm getting 162.400, 162.425, 162.475, 162.500, 162.550 and 162.575. I'll need to listen to see which one is which.

 

[trentbob]

Thanks. I'm getting 162.400, 162.425, 162.475, 162.500, 162.550 and 162.575. I'll need to listen to see which one is which.

Yes you see two locations one is where the station is located and the other locations are the weather coverage it offers so Fort Myers you are talking about Venice all the way up to the Panhandle, definitely Tampa, Lakewood Ranch, Sarasota and as I say you might even be getting something out of state above the Panhandle.

Just to clarify since this thread is about VHF reception on an sds100 is that what you are using, or a 200, what kind of antenna?

 

[K9KLC]

Just to clarify since this thread is about VHF reception on an sds100 is that what you are using, or a 200, what kind of antenna?

Correct I don't think the OP, and certainly not myself are interested in base type antenna setups. I am only interested in what can be carried at least "semi" easily, not overly bulky, and truthfully at times on a belt clip. I have enough devices at home to listen to VHF analog without worrying about how to do that.
Honestly if I wanted to carry more than one thing, I have some ham HT's that out-perform most things I've ever tried even listening of the ham bands. Trying to figure out if the SDS-100 will actually fit the "all in one" category.

 

[EAFrizzle]

Since I'm sitting at my desk with 10 different antennas (aside from the stock ones), I might as well talk about them.

I have: Remtronix antennas 820s, 920s, and 843 s & b; Gabil radio RH795 in bnc and sma; a Retevis dual-bander with sma for Baofeng; and two oldies but goodies, a no-name ham dual-bander bought at a hamfest, and the stock antenna from an early 90s Trident.

The Remtronix antennas perform very well for what they are. The 820 is excellent on 7/8/9, and the 920 is even better with two extra inches, and does UHF nicely. The 843 antennas are listed as V/U/7/8/9, good performance on U - 9, but it performs a bit better on VHF than a standard 8" duck. Plus, being foldable means it plays well with the 200 as a back of set, and the 100 so you can lay it down.

The Gabil GRA-RH795 is a 70 - 1000 MHz telescopic antenna. It comes in bnc and sma, but the sma one does not fit the SDS100. It's a heavy antenna, so stress on the radio's connector is a concern at longer lengths. Does a nice job at the frequency you tune it to. A roll of 18" heavy-duty aluminum foil helps any antenna, but really makes a difference with this antenna.

Retevis dual-bander, model unknown about 18", very flexible. Not the right sma for the 100, but very good on VHF, even with an adapter. Long and floppy, tends to smack things accidentally, but it works well. If it comes with the proper connector for the 100, it's worth investigating.

I've kept the last two around because they work well. The ham dual-bander is 18" and much stiffer than the Retevis. The old Trident antenna is just super broad-banded, does nicely down to about 12 MHz, and no glaring dead spots in its coverage.

They all do better than stock (not a very high standard to beat), but make sure to double check frequency coverage on the Remtronix to be sure it's the one you need.

And get a wide roll of aluminum foil...

 

[K9KLC]

Since I'm sitting at my desk with 10 different antennas (aside from the stock ones), I might as well talk about them.

I have: Remtronix antennas 820s, 920s, and 843 s & b; Gabil radio RH795 in bnc and sma; a Retevis dual-bander with sma for Baofeng; and two oldies but goodies, a no-name ham dual-bander bought at a hamfest, and the stock antenna from an early 90s Trident.

The Remtronix antennas perform very well for what they are. The 820 is excellent on 7/8/9, and the 920 is even better with two extra inches, and does UHF nicely. The 843 antennas are listed as V/U/7/8/9, good performance on U - 9, but it performs a bit better on VHF than a standard 8" duck. Plus, being foldable means it plays well with the 200 as a back of set, and the 100 so you can lay it down.

The Gabil GRA-RH795 is a 70 - 1000 MHz telescopic antenna. It comes in bnc and sma, but the sma one does not fit the SDS100. It's a heavy antenna, so stress on the radio's connector is a concern at longer lengths. Does a nice job at the frequency you tune it to. A roll of 18" heavy-duty aluminum foil helps any antenna, but really makes a difference with this antenna.

Retevis dual-bander, model unknown about 18", very flexible. Not the right sma for the 100, but very good on VHF, even with an adapter. Long and floppy, tends to smack things accidentally, but it works well. If it comes with the proper connector for the 100, it's worth investigating.

I've kept the last two around because they work well. The ham dual-bander is 18" and much stiffer than the Retevis. The old Trident antenna is just super broad-banded, does nicely down to about 12 MHz, and no glaring dead spots in its coverage.

They all do better than stock (not a very high standard to beat), but make sure to double check frequency coverage on the Remtronix to be sure it's the one you need.

And get a wide roll of aluminum foil...

So far for me on VHF, the comet RH77 has worked the best of all the ones I've tried in various devices. I've got several Remtronix laying around and as I stated earlier the multi-band one didn't do as well as the stock antenna that came with the BCD 436. (it did out do it on 700/800 however). I've ordered the comet that was mentioned here although I don't feel that is really what I'm after for carrying something on a belt clip at times however, I do want to test it on other devices also. I will say for 700/800 the Remtronix stuff works pretty well, I even use one on the back of one of my G5 amplified charging bases and another one on a BCD 436 which actually brought that scanner to life here for me on the simulcast I try and monitor, depending on where I'm at of course.

Thanks for the post about antenna's, that helps.

 

[EAFrizzle]

Just did a quick comparison of the 3 Remtronix antennas on the SDS100, to see how 7/8/9 reception was affected. Locked onto my local simulcast control channel, the monoband 820s was at -71dbm, the dual-band 920s at -74, and the tri-band 843s was at -80. Not a huge difference in numbers and no difference in audio that i could tell, but it does demonstrate the tradeoff in gaining bandwidth.

 

[EAFrizzle]

So far for me on VHF, the comet RH77 has worked the best of all the ones I've tried in various devices. I've got several Remtronix laying around and as I stated earlier the multi-band one didn't do as well as the stock antenna that came with the BCD 436. (it did out do it on 700/800 however). I've ordered the comet that was mentioned here although I don't feel that is really what I'm after for carrying something on a belt clip at times however, I do want to test it on other devices also.

My old dual-bander and the Retevis will both tickle your armpit if you're not careful.

 

[trentbob]

Okay that's good that we are still talking SDS-100 VHF reception.

Definitely antenna can affect reception, obviously.. interesting discussion, I have Ziploc bags of rubber ducks collected over the decades.. I did try the 842s it doesn't have the water resistant o-ring but it's a very nice fitting antenna, affectionately called the broomstick by some people.. it was a good overall antenna and performed good on VHF, there was some compromise in 7-800 MHz but still good.. I just had to stop using it..

It was awkward and not balanced well on the sds100, it's top heavy and cumbersome, like getting poked in the ribs or tangled in the coat, hence the name broomstick.

The original REM 7 - 800 MHz high gain antenna that was originally made for Radio Shack in BNC only by the GRE company who made their scanners also is an excellent antenna if you are just going to focus on 7-800 MHz, it's okay on UHF but not so much on VHF.

All the antennas listed sound good and the focus is VHF High so with a quarter wave being 16 to 19 in it's hard to get compact and still get optimal reception on VHF.

I have settled on the Watson w-801 that is pretty old antenna and can't be found anymore, it's out of stock everywhere, the SMA does not fit the recessed proprietary mount on the SDS 100 that has to accommodate the O-ring to maintain it's water resistance so I use the BNC adapter.

It's about as good as I'm going to get without having it too cumbersome.

I actually brought the SDS 100 out this morning and have been listening to it with the Watson 801. I'll say it again, I'm impressed, listening to Railroad, Coast Guard VHF, and always monitor guard. I have a couple of 2 m ham repeaters I listen to also, if I hear something interesting or a friend I can just jump on the air.

 

[EAFrizzle]

Okay that's good that we are still talking SDS-100 VHF reception.

Definitely antenna can affect reception, obviously.. interesting discussion, I have Ziploc bags of rubber ducks collected over the decades.. I did try the 842s it doesn't have the water resistant o-ring but it's a very nice fitting antenna, affectionately called the broomstick by some people.. it was a good overall antenna and performed good on VHF, there was some compromise in 7-800 MHz but still good.. I just had to stop using it..

It was awkward and not balanced well on the sds100, it's top heavy and cumbersome, like getting poked in the ribs or tangled in the coat, hence the name broomstick.

The original REM 7 - 800 MHz high gain antenna that was originally made for Radio Shack in BNC only by the GRE company who made their scanners also is an excellent antenna if you are just going to focus on 7-800 MHz, it's okay on UHF but not so much on VHF.

cumbersome.

At least we're not having to figure out V-low on a handheld!

Cumbersome. That's the big problem with VHF; nice and compact for portable/mobile use, kinda silly-looking and clumsy on an HT. VHF 1/4 waves are more of a "use it when you get there" thing than a carry-all-day solution.

I'm using the Gabil telescopic on the BC125AT now. At 8" closed, it stays fairly stable. Tuned as a 1/4 wave, it's going to be well secured when used outdoors.

I'm thinking about playing around with a home made portable GP for all these antennas. Lightweight pole on a tripod, maybe. Maybe stick an mla-30 underneath.

 

[K9KLC]

All the antennas listed sound good and the focus is VHF High so with a quarter wave being 16 to 19 in it's hard to get compact and still get optimal reception on VHF.

Right and I'm aware of this from carrying Ham radio HT's longer than I care to admit. (not so much any more but 15-20 years ago, didn't leave home with one). I am more concerned with does device"A" work at least as good as device "B" with the same antenna. If I have to change settings or filters or whatever one time getting it dialed in is fine, I'm used to that. I've not seen nor, did I test the SDS 100 on uhf when I had it. I've not seen near the feedback that band. I will this time however. If I have to have a 18 inch antenna to make"A" equal to "B" on a short rubber duck, then that's not what I'm after.
The purpose of the testing I hope to achieve is for me, at the locations I go to on a regular basis, to see what happens. What works for others may or may not work for everyone in every location nor, would I expect it to.

 

[trentbob]

Right and I'm aware of this from carrying Ham radio HT's longer than I care to admit. (not so much any more but 15-20 years ago, didn't leave home with one). I am more concerned with does device"A" work at least as good as device "B" with the same antenna. If I have to change settings or filters or whatever one time getting it dialed in is fine, I'm used to that. I've not seen nor, did I test the SDS 100 on uhf when I had it. I've not seen near the feedback that band. I will this time however. If I have to have a 18 inch antenna to make"A" equal to "B" on a short rubber duck, then that's not what I'm after.
The purpose of the testing I hope to achieve is for me, at the locations I go to on a regular basis, to see what happens. What works for others may or may not work for everyone in every location nor, would I expect it to.

I'm actually a big advocate of the kiss principal.. filters on the sdĺs100 are not something that have to be used unless they have to be used, they are more for troubleshooting problem reception whether it be on a system or a group of individual conventional frequencies.

Yes if you're staying in range of what you normally receive it's something that you would use to problem solve and troubleshoot an issue and then leave it. As long as it's applied to the system sites themselves or an individual group of conventional frequencies, with conventional frequencies it has to be applied to Department options for a group of channels which usually works out okay because if you're having a problem with one of them you're probably going to have a problem with all of them in that particular application.

As we established these are not apx 8000's LOL it's a consumer radio that is going to have its limitations by nature and it also has had some quality control issues over the years like the cold solder joint problem and the rotary encoder problem, in the function dial, doesn't affect everybody but some people have experienced it, it's been out enough years that these things have been cleared up.

As far as possibly setting up some kind of a temporary ground plane on a tripod, I'm going to look in my archives and see if I can find a picture you might find interesting from a while ago.

 

[trentbob]

This is something I had used years ago as a temporary setup using a tri-band ground plane on a broom handle attached to a cheap Walmart floor lamp and 10 ft run of rg8m.

I think I have it buried somewhere in the garage but it actually worked good.

 

[EAFrizzle]

I miss those old RS antennas. For the price, nothing beat them.

 

[K9KLC]

I'm actually a big advocate of the kiss principal.. filters on the sdĺs100 are not something that have to be used unless they have to be used, they are more for troubleshooting problem reception whether it be on a system or a group of individual conventional frequencies.

Yes if you're staying in range of what you normally receive it's something that you would use to problem solve and troubleshoot an issue and then leave it. As long as it's applied to the system sites themselves or an individual group of conventional frequencies, with conventional frequencies it has to be applied to Department options for a group of channels which usually works out okay because if you're having a problem with one of them you're probably going to have a problem with all of them in that particular application.

As we established these are not apx 8000's LOL it's a consumer radio that is going to have its limitations by nature and it also has had some quality control issues over the years like the cold solder joint problem and the rotary encoder problem, in the function dial, doesn't affect everybody but some people have experienced it, it's been out enough years that these things have been cleared up.

As far as possibly setting up some kind of a temporary ground plane on a tripod, I'm going to look in my archives and see if I can find a picture you might find interesting from a while ago.

I used to make 1 meter, 1.25 meter and 70cm antennas for new hams on SO-239's for them to use till they got something else. I've also used them while apartment living a few times thru out the years.

I'm not concerned in the least with any trunking systems on the SDS at this time. Personally I have that problem solved at least in my home area. Someone has a tag line here "the more you scan the less you hear" and on a single device that's true, which is why at this point I have two unication pagers as well as other devices for receiving. I will however compare the SDS to the G5 on 3 different sites I receive here. The simulcast is touted to be the SDS series strong point. The price points both new and used are comparable on the Unication pagers (at least used heck I've found the unications cheaper on most occasions). What I can't do on the Unication is throw something in there at a moments notice, unless I have my laptop with me which obviously isn't the case usually). Henceforth the interest in the SDS 100.

Yes we've ascertained it's not an APX, it's also not that price and besides, unless you want to chance NAS on that, (which I won't do) it's a moot point anyway. I'm not really concerned at the moment about quality control, as they say "this a test only a test"....the outcome will decide if the SDS 100 stays on my radar for a possible purchase. Hopefully the OP has been watching here and learned something.
I still submit however, if all a person is interested in is VHF scanning on analog frequencies, there are certainly cheaper options out there.

 

[K9KLC]

View attachment 177998
This is something I had used years ago as a temporary setup using a tri-band ground plane on a broom handle attached to a cheap Walmart floor lamp and 10 ft run of rg8m.

I think I have it buried somewhere in the garage but it actually worked good.

that's GREAT!!!

 

[trentbob]

I used to make 1 meter, 1.25 meter and 70cm antennas for new hams on SO-239's for them to use till they got something else. I've also used them while apartment living a few times thru out the years.

I'm not concerned in the least with any trunking systems on the SDS at this time. Personally I have that problem solved at least in my home area. Someone has a tag line here "the more you scan the less you hear" and on a single device that's true, which is why at this point I have two unication pagers as well as other devices for receiving. I will however compare the SDS to the G5 on 3 different sites I receive here. The simulcast is touted to be the SDS series strong point. The price points both new and used are comparable on the Unication pagers (at least used heck I've found the unications cheaper on most occasions). What I can't do on the Unication is throw something in there at a moments notice, unless I have my laptop with me which obviously isn't the case usually). Henceforth the interest in the SDS 100.

Yes we've ascertained it's not an APX, it's also not that price and besides, unless you want to chance NAS on that, (which I won't do) it's a moot point anyway. I'm not really concerned at the moment about quality control, as they say "this a test only a test"....the outcome will decide if the SDS 100 stays on my radar for a possible purchase. Hopefully the OP has been watching here and learned something.
I still submit however, if all a person is interested in is VHF scanning on analog frequencies, there are certainly cheaper options out there.

Yep and better working, I never went the unication pager route even though they work very well on simulcast
systems, I still needed to have the ability to scan my County Phase 2 system and have VHF, UHF all in one scanning package.

I'm the one that always said The more you scan the less you hear, with the SDS 100 if you are scanning a system and too many sites it would take too long to roll around to get the reply to a VHF for UHF conventional conversation, it's all a compromise, rather than be poor VHF reception it was more like you just missed the reply by the time the radio got around to or back to the VHF conversation. With the SDS 100 that really is a good guideline, the more you scan the less you hear so you keep it simple.

 

[Brales60]

Yes you see two locations one is where the station is located and the other locations are the weather coverage it offers so Fort Myers you are talking about Venice all the way up to the Panhandle, definitely Tampa, Lakewood Ranch, Sarasota and as I say you might even be getting something out of state above the Panhandle.

Just to clarify since this thread is about VHF reception on an sds100 is that what you are using, or a 200, what kind of antenna?

SDS200 and a Omni X. I did kind of derail, but I believe there was a few others. Guilty as charged.