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Searching for Antenna, Which side to tune for Repeater Freq

spitzman

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I'm working on a deployment for my side business and the FCC assigned me a 152.x as my repeater output and 159.x as my repeater input. I'm having a hard time finding a VHF antenna that covers both those ranges. Some antennas cover 150-155MHz and some 155-158MHz etc. The ones that cover a larger band like 148-172MHz are field tunable.

Is my best bet to go for a field tunable antenna and tune to the repeater output? Or could I go for a pre-tuned one in my repeater output range of 152.x and being tuned to receive the 159.x doesn't matter as much?

I am an amateur radio operator but this is my first experience with commercial frequencies and setting up my own repeater.
 

mmckenna

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The repeater is going to be happy with an antenna that is tuned for it's transmit frequency.
Usually these antennas have some amount of useable bandwidth on either side, and will work fine for receiving a bit outside.

You also have the option of using an antenna type that has wider bandwidth. Folded dipole antennas are popular for this.
 

spitzman

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The repeater is going to be happy with an antenna that is tuned for it's transmit frequency.
Usually these antennas have some amount of useable bandwidth on either side, and will work fine for receiving a bit outside.

You also have the option of using an antenna type that has wider bandwidth. Folded dipole antennas are popular for this.
Thanks! I ended up going with a Diamond X50C2.
 

KevinC

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Go big or go home...

 

freddaniel

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Your problem is solved, for the moment. If you are interested in finding out what the issues are, keep reading.

With most antennas, the limiting factor is usually the SWR at the two operating frequencies. As mmckenna advised, focus on the SWR at the transmit frequency as that will protect your transmitter from excessive SWR, otherwise heat. The receiver mismatch is less of a concern as it will not cause damage, only a slight but measurable reduced performance. The operating bandwidth is usually limited by the method used to match the feedline to the antenna. Even field tunable antennas suffer from limited operating bandwidth.

However, there are antennas that are designed for wide operating bandwidths, such as 138-174 MHz. These are usually dipoles with a special matching design. An example is a Comprod 871-70-LM or Sinclair SD210 antenna. These dipoles can be stacked to achieve more gain, while preserving the wide operating bandwidth. An example of the antenna feedline match is below.

The antenna you purchased is a collinear design. This design has limited operating bandwidth from both SWR and beam-tilt issues. At the center operating frequency, the radiating beam is at the horizion. At the highest operating frequency, the beam is tilted up a few degrees and at the lowest operating frequency the beam is tilted down a few degrees. With your antenna, this is not a problem because it has very little gain. Collinear antennas with more gain sometimes use this condition to create down-tilt, for some mountain top sites.

Mobile radio systems are expensive to build, but you can get more range & performance from using the best antenna & feedline than any other way. At the repeater, quality gain antennas improve both your transmit and receive performance. Quality feedline, like Heliax cable preserves the signal between the repeater and antenna. Any loss in the feedline cannot be made up for with amplifers or anything else.

Last, the gain advertised is rarely accuract, as they often offer no reference. The standard references are dBi and dBd. If they just say dB, it means nothing as the reference is unstated.
 

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K4EET

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Go big or go home...

I have to agree. The antenna system is what makes or breaks the radio system. Using a “hobby” antenna for a commercial radio system is not advisable. And like @freddaniel mentioned, the gain of the antenna is meaningless without a reference point. If this repeater is at a commercial radio site, they may not even allow the antenna that @spitzman selected. One sure does not want that antenna coming apart due to wind and/or ice loading and potentially damaging other systems at the site. I wonder if any coverage surveys are being done. Without real-world specs on the antenna, the coverage maps would not be reliable.
 

mmckenna

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Thanks! I ended up going with a Diamond X50C2.

OK.

Good info above, but without specific details, it would be very difficult for someone to tell you exactly which antenna you should be using. If that one works for you, then great. Keep a close eye on it as they are not the most durable, but in some applications they might be good enough.
 

jeepsandradios

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What is the commercial repeater for ? If your going the route of frequency coordination and commercial repeater, tower fees and such why woul you throw a low dollar ham antenna on the tower ? I had a project where we installed 3 of those on a LMR tower for the county RACES team and in less than a year they were all on the gorund in pieces. They were replaced with the RFI above only becasue it was in the project. For all my SAR stuff we normally use the DB224 or DB222 depending on need of the site and they are reasonable priced. I'd love a RFI for SAR but we can swing those prices on donations.
 

nokones

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Definitely go with a reputable two-way professional supplier like Talley Communications, Antenna Farm, and Arcadian Antenna that retails TE Connectivity or similar type professional antennae.

Its been a few decades, so I don't remember what the California State Fish & Game, Forestry, and Department of Water Resources used for their 159/151 MHz repeaters. My guess is they tuned for the repeater Tx freq and lived with whatever hit was on the repeater receive freq.
 

mmckenna

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Its been a few decades, so I don't remember what the California State Fish & Game, Forestry, and Department of Water Resources used for their 159/151 MHz repeaters. My guess is they tuned for the repeater Tx freq and lived with whatever hit was on the repeater receive freq.

I've got F&G and CalFire at one of my sites, and they all had folded dipoles. I think they were Telewave.
 
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