Seeking User Comments on 25W to 50W GMRS Mobile Radios

[K9KLC]

I am very disappointed that the various commercial manufacturers of current Part 90 radios have abandoned Part 95E certified radios.

Frankly I don't blame them. A jeep group my son runs with, uses all baofengs for GMRS and he's the only licensed one there. (via me and yes he lives in the household). I don't mean the B-tech GMRS radios, I mean the 25 dollar baofengs. Probably over 50 people right there and that's one little group in our small area. When he shows up with his /\/\ Ht or a Kenwood mobile, they all go gaga over it. I know at least the 805 Kenwood is approved, we found this out in the 90's when we were all getting into GMRS before cellphones were commonplace. All of these things take $$$ to develop, get certified and get on the market. I see at this time unfortunately no future in them taking on such an endeavor.

There is still at least one person out here that is interested… 😂

While I applaud your enthusiasm for staying 100% legal, we've learned from right here in this very thread, that the demand while more than one person isn't the greatest. All you need to do is participate in a couple of ham radio groups and you'll see some of the first questions on the new transcievers being released is "what's the mod". I'm fairly certain the "I only want it for in an emergency, isn't 100% accurate. Given the ease of modding new amateur transceivers, the influx of 20 buck or so "fengs", you see where the future of all of this is headed. Frankly I'm grateful for the folks that take the trouble to use even part 90 stuff, which "usually" has a little better guts than the average CCR or even many ham transceivers.

Good luck to you on your decision, I hope the 100% legal radio works out for you as you hope it will. The antenna is going to be the most important part regardless of the radio, but I'm sure you know that. -73

 

[K4EET]

Hi @K9KLC and thanks for your comments. Much appreciated! Yes, they don’t make it easy to stay 100% legal. To say the least, this entire discussion has been fantastic and I have definitely learned a lot about both Part 95E radios as well as radios that can transmit in the 462-467 MHz range. I do agree that Part 90 radios would be a second choice. Finally, yes, the antenna system makes the radio system. You don’t want to be transmitting into a dummy load. 😂 73 my friend!

 

[kny2xb]

I am very disappointed that the various commercial manufacturers of current Part 90 radios have abandoned Part 95E certified radios.

So what am I going to do? First I have to see if I can purchase what I need for @prcguy’s radio which does appear to be a desirable radio to meet my needs. If that gets too expensive buying the needed accessories, however, rivaling the cost of a new Midland MXT500 radio, I’ll probably just go new with the Midland regardless of where the radio is assembled.

BlueMax49ers has a cable for $25.95 with free shipping, unfortunately, he doesn't have the software

Bendix King EMV4990A Radio FTDI Programming Cable LAA0725M

Buy the BlueMax49ers Bendix King EMV4990A Radio FTDI Programming Cable LAA0725M for . Use our Software Advisor to find the best applications and driver downloads for your computer hardware and operating system. Over 85,000 cables sold with 100% customer satisfaction.

bluemax49ers.com

I truly appreciate everyone’s input on this search. The moral of this story? It is not easy finding a Part 95E compliant radio with all of the needed accessories, robustly designed and built, that is not designed and built in China. Icom, Kenwood, Motorola, and the like should reconsider the Part 95E market (GMRS). There is still at least one person out here that is interested… 😂

I agree that Icom, Kenwood, & Yaesu should reconsider the Part 95/GMRS market
I think that Icom should configure their Australian UHF CB radios for GMRS

Product list | Products | Icom Inc.

Icom is an outstanding, comprehensive radio manufacturer that produces radio communication equipment of all genres, from amateur radios to terrestrial, marine and avionics radios, as well as LTE, WLAN and satellite radios.

www.icomjapan.com

I have had good luck with & am happy with my purchases from Alinco, as you can see in my signature, I have several Alinco radios
Yes, they are mostly Part 90 rigs which are against the rules & regs, but for the 6-7 years that I've had them, I've been very happy with their quality
I think that they should be included in The Big Four, as opposed to The Big Three
As Far As I Know they are the only Japanese company making a Part 95 radio, the DJ-G46T h-t

IMO, the manufacturers are more interested in the business & public safety markets than the consumer market
Businesses & governments have deeper pockets than you & I

Just my .02¢ before they stop making pennies

73

 

[K4EET]

BlueMax49ers has a cable for $25.95 with free shipping, unfortunately, he doesn't have the software

Bendix King EMV4990A Radio FTDI Programming Cable LAA0725M

Buy the BlueMax49ers Bendix King EMV4990A Radio FTDI Programming Cable LAA0725M for . Use our Software Advisor to find the best applications and driver downloads for your computer hardware and operating system. Over 85,000 cables sold with 100% customer satisfaction.

bluemax49ers.com

I agree that Icom, Kenwood, & Yaesu should reconsider the Part 95/GMRS market
I think that Icom should configure their Australian UHF CB radios for GMRS

Product list | Products | Icom Inc.

Icom is an outstanding, comprehensive radio manufacturer that produces radio communication equipment of all genres, from amateur radios to terrestrial, marine and avionics radios, as well as LTE, WLAN and satellite radios.

www.icomjapan.com

I have had good luck with & am happy with my purchases from Alinco, as you can see in my signature, I have several Alinco radios
Yes, they are mostly Part 90 rigs which are against the rules & regs, but for the 6-7 years that I've had them, I've been very happy with their quality
I think that they should be included in The Big Four, as opposed to The Big Three
As Far As I Know they are the only Japanese company making a Part 95 radio, the DJ-G46T h-t

IMO, the manufacturers are more interested in the business & public safety markets than the consumer market
Businesses & governments have deeper pockets than you & I

Just my .02¢ before they stop making pennies

73

Hi @kny2xb and thanks for your comments.

Yes, I knew from others about BlueMax49ers having that cable. There are two variants of that cable and right now I’m not sure which one I need.

I’ve had Alinco HTs before. I was not aware of the

ALINCO DJ-G46T

5W GMRS And FRS UHF Handheld With Display

www.hamradio.com

radio. If I were in the market for an HT, that would definitely be considered.

As for your 2 cents, thanks! 😃

 

[kny2xb]

The DJ-G46T was released in early 2024

It's mono-band, superhet, has FM broadcast reception, but not wide-band receive, it's specifically a GMRS radio
It's based on their PMR446 model for the European market

At the time, the Remtronix [Alinco US distributor] asked me for my input on GMRS mobiles, seeing that Midland has their MXT line
With the G46T, Alinco was testing the water so to speak
I gave him my ideas & opinions

I just e-mailed him & asked what Alincos' position is going to be concerning the GMRS market

Personally, I hope it's good news

 

[K4EET]

The DJ-G46T was released in early 2024
<snip>
With the G46T, Alinco was testing the water so to speak
I gave him my ideas & opinions

I just e-mailed him & asked what Alincos' position is going to be concerning the GMRS market

Personally, I hope it's good news

Yes, it would be nice to see them do a mobile unit with Part 95E certification. That may be a smaller market but it sure would be a nice addition to what is currently out there.

 

[kny2xb]

I recommended a mobile based on the DR-CS10 2 meter & DR-CS25 222 MHz models because of their compact size

And I recommended a mobile based on the DR-438 UHF because it's a heavy/heavier duty Part 90 rig

 

[mmckenna]

There are several older Icom radios that are Part 95 approved. I ran several back in the late 1990's/early 2000's. Icom F-4 portable, F-420 mobile, F-2020 mobile. I believe the F221 and F621 had Part 95 also.

You can find cables pretty cheap for those as they were just RS232 in through the mic jack, as I recall. BlueMax probably has what you need, and I've noticed he'll give you software for many of the Icom radios.

As for the big companies doing GMRS, I think we'll never see much on that front. Icom is probably the likeliest candidate as they at least sell some good MURS hand helds. They used to have some dedicated GMRS gear, but they sort of left the market.

Problems with GMRS from the point of view of these companies probably looks something like this:
- 1 off customers that buy a single radio then want top tier tech support since they usually don't know what they are doing.
- Charging for software would be opposite of the "Chirp" mentality or "bootleg software" mentality that most hobbyists have. They don't want to support a software package that they can't charge for and users will want top tier tech support, as mentioned above.
- CCR's have spoiled things. A lot of GMRS users think that the CCR products are cream of the crop and see no reason to buy anything else. When you are a company like Kenwood, Icom or Motorola, trying to justify entering into that market when the average user thinks a $25 radio is "good enough". Very few legit users are willing to spend the $300 that one of these radios would cost.
- Hobbyist would want it to do GMRS, MURS, CB, Ham, P25, DMR, D*Star, 10 meters, Freeband, FM broadcast, flashlight, mosquito repeller, plus all that for $40.
- Most users would still hook it up to the crappiest piece of crap antenna they could find then complain.

I think it takes a dedicated company to enter the hobby market. Icom and Kenwood have separated out the ham radio side of their business from the LMR side because of this. I don't think the ham side of the house should be meddling in GMRS, if you ask me. Far too many ways that could go wrong. And the LMR side doesn't want to support the one off customers that want platinum level free tech support for life because they bought a radio for $300 bucks.

 

[kny2xb]

There are several older Icom radios that are Part 95 approved. I ran several back in the late 1990's/early 2000's. Icom F-4 portable, F-420 mobile, F-2020 mobile. I believe the F221 and F621 had Part 95 also.

I have an F4GT, I like it, but it's slightly limited as I don't think it has DCS, otherwise it's a great h-t

You can find cables pretty cheap for those as they were just RS232 in through the mic jack, as I recall. BlueMax probably has what you need, and I've noticed he'll give you software for many of the Icom radios.

Yup, my newer PC doesn't have a serial port, I had the RS232 cable for the F4GT, so a few years ago I bought a serial-to-USB adapter at Best Buy, it's a PITA, but it works
I purchased a USB cable from BlueMax that fits both my F2000T & F4021S, and he had the software for each

As for the big companies doing GMRS, I think we'll never see much on that front. Icom is probably the likeliest candidate as they at least sell some good MURS hand helds.

If Icom configured their Australian CB gear for GMRS...wishful thinking on my part

They used to have some dedicated GMRS gear, but they sort of left the market.

I also have an F21GM, but I don't use it much

Problems with GMRS from the point of view of these companies probably looks something like this:
- 1 off customers that buy a single radio then want top tier tech support since they usually don't know what they are doing.
- Charging for software would be opposite of the "Chirp" mentality or "bootleg software" mentality that most hobbyists have. They don't want to support a software package that they can't charge for and users will want top tier tech support, as mentioned above.

All I'll say is, when I read some of the questions in the Baofeng sub-reddit......some of them NEED top tier support
I don't go to that sub as often as I used to, as Stan Lee used to say "Nuff said"

- CCR's have spoiled things. A lot of GMRS users think that the CCR products are cream of the crop and see no reason to buy anything else. When you are a company like Kenwood, Icom or Motorola, trying to justify entering into that market when the average user thinks a $25 radio is "good enough". Very few legit users are willing to spend the $300 that one of these radios would cost.
- Hobbyist would want it to do GMRS, MURS, CB, Ham, P25, DMR, D*Star, 10 meters, Freeband, FM broadcast, flashlight, mosquito repeller, plus all that for $40.
- Most users would still hook it up to the crappiest piece of crap antenna they could find then complain.

Yeah, I've been down voted when I recommended buying a TYT UV88 over a UV5R, let alone a Yaesu FT4X or FT65, or an Alinco DJ-VX50 [not necessarily for GMRS, but when the question of "What should I buy?" arose]
And running to Amazon [counterfeit central IMO] instead of buying their antenna from a radio store

I think it takes a dedicated company to enter the hobby market. Icom and Kenwood have separated out the ham radio side of their business from the LMR side because of this. I don't think the ham side of the house should be meddling in GMRS, if you ask me. Far too many ways that could go wrong. And the LMR side doesn't want to support the one off customers that want platinum level free tech support for life because they bought a radio for $300 bucks.

I can't argue with you there
I've lucked into good buys on Part 90 rigs & I took the time to source & acquire the necessary accessories + software & learned to program them, & I admit that I'm not a radio Einstein, so if I can do it...
But then, some users struggle with CHIRP
Again, 'nuff said

I'm still hopeful that Alinco expands its selection of Part 95 rigs to fill the niche

 

[mmckenna]

If Icom configured their Australian CB gear for GMRS...wishful thinking on my part

Yes, I think that would be a nice setup and could probably compete against Midland.
Would be interesting to see the market research on that. I think the issue might come down to market saturation and if adding another player would pay off.

If I was in the market (I am not), and I had the option between a CCR (even the 'expensive' ones), Midland and an Icom, I'd take the Icom.

I also have an F21GM, but I don't use it much

Those were a big deal when they came out. On some of the older GMRS forums, there were a lot of people looking for an off the shelf higher tier portable that didn't require the end user knowing how to program radios. That radio filled that market and did well, but the price was too high for some.

I had a buch of F21's on LMR frequencies at work and they stood up pretty well. Only recently retired them.

I'm still hopeful that Alinco expands its selection of Part 95 rigs to fill the niche

Forgot about Alinco. They've got a pretty diverse product line.

 

[kny2xb]

If I was in the market (I am not), and I had the option between a CCR (even the 'expensive' ones), Midland and an Icom, I'd take the Icom.

Without a doubt
Midlands are probably good for a cookie-cutter type of user, not necessarily good for the rest of the crowd
The "expensive" CCRs don't appeal to me, for the money they're asking on some of them, I'd rather buy Part 90 Alincos or Icoms like I've been doing
I see the similarities between the IC-41PRO & the IC-F2000S [I have two F2000T's], & between the IC-410PRO & the IC-F6000 series

Those were a big deal when they came out. On some of the older GMRS forums, there were a lot of people looking for an off the shelf higher tier portable that didn't require the end user knowing how to program radios. That radio filled that market and did well, but the price was too high for some.

I don't remember what the original price was, I grabbed it used for just under $50.00 awhile back

I had a bunch of F21's on LMR frequencies at work and they stood up pretty well. Only recently retired them.

Cool

Forgot about Alinco. They've got a pretty diverse product line.

Last year, Raj at Remtronix actually asked for my input on expanding their GMRS product line to include mobiles
I e-mailed Raj a few hours ago, I'll see what he says
If they don't expand their GMRS offerings, at least they have the G46T h-t on the market

 

[AK9R]

Yes, interesting discussion. I commend @K4EET for wanting to be legal, no matter how difficult it is. Others have said it in the past, and I agree, that the FCC should change the rules and allow any Part 90 radio to be used in Part 95E as long as it otherwise meets Part 95E rules.

Looking at the brochure for the Kenwood TK-8180 (yes, it's not a current radio), what features could Kenwood remove, possibly through a firmware revision or a reduced feature set in the programming software, to make the radio more viable for GMRS.

• 45 watt version -- legal on GMRS, but would the 30 watt version be adequate?
• FleetSync -- not needed
• LTR -- not needed
• Zones in memory programming -- useful, but a frill for most GMRS users
• MPT1327 -- not needed
• Remote head -- a frill, but useful in some mounting situations
• Alphanumeric memory names -- useful
• 3-digit sub display -- if you don't have zones, this is unnecessary
• Date and time clock -- a frill
• Companded audio -- not necessary (would this be legal on GMRS?)
• Voice inversion -- not necessary (would this be legal on GMRS?)
• Option port -- what options? VGS-1? Not necessary. GPS receiver? Not necessary. Modem? Not necessary.
• Encryption -- not legal on GMRS
• DTMF Encode/Decode -- for what purpose on GMRS?
• Special Alert Tone Patterns, 2-tone decode -- probably not necessary on GMRS
• TOT, BCLO, APO -- useful features
• DB-25 accessory connector, programmable I/Os -- probably not useful for most GMRS users
• Ignition sense -- would GMRS users use this?
• PA/Horn Alert -- might be useful to GMRS users
• Mil-spec mic -- keep this
• Cloning -- keep this
• Mil-spec housing, IP54/55 -- keep this
• OST -- keep this
• Scanning features -- keep this
• MDC-1200 -- only useful to set the user apart from the cheap, Chinese radios that don't have this feature.

How many of these features could simply be turned off in firmware or "disappeared" in the KPG programming software? Without these features, could Kenwood build an affordable "TK-8181G"? Yes, I know, Kenwood isn't likely to jump on the GMRS bandwagon. But, it's fun to speculate.

 

[K9KLC]

DTMF Encode/Decode -- for what purpose on GMRS

I know of at least two people that use this for remote ways to turn off and on their repeaters when times get "hairy" (well the encode anyway). DTMF stuff is harder to find on commercial stuff, which explains to some degree, why the ham stuff might be appealing to some users.

 

[popnokick]

Regarding manufacturers engaging in investment, development, and expansion of their product line regarding GMRS: Maybe one of the factors driving their investment, expansion, and product development budget is that there seems to be an emphasis on digital voice (DMR, NXDN, P25, etc). Then there's GMRS... "Let's invest, develop, and build for that! Oh, wait... you mean GMRS isn't digital?" (Said by the head of Accounting to the Development Team Lead and CEO.)

 

[K4EET]

Now if the FCC and the radio manufacturers would read this thread, we would be moving forward. Baby steps, mind you.

 

[prcguy]

Yes, interesting discussion. I commend @K4EET for wanting to be legal, no matter how difficult it is. Others have said it in the past, and I agree, that the FCC should change the rules and allow any Part 90 radio to be used in Part 95E as long as it otherwise meets Part 95E rules.

Looking at the brochure for the Kenwood TK-8180 (yes, it's not a current radio), what features could Kenwood remove, possibly through a firmware revision or a reduced feature set in the programming software, to make the radio more viable for GMRS.

• 45 watt version -- legal on GMRS, but would the 30 watt version be adequate?
• FleetSync -- not needed
• LTR -- not needed
• Zones in memory programming -- useful, but a frill for most GMRS users
• MPT1327 -- not needed
• Remote head -- a frill, but useful in some mounting situations
• Alphanumeric memory names -- useful
• 3-digit sub display -- if you don't have zones, this is unnecessary
• Date and time clock -- a frill
• Companded audio -- not necessary (would this be legal on GMRS?)
• Voice inversion -- not necessary (would this be legal on GMRS?)
• Option port -- what options? VGS-1? Not necessary. GPS receiver? Not necessary. Modem? Not necessary.
• Encryption -- not legal on GMRS
• DTMF Encode/Decode -- for what purpose on GMRS?
• Special Alert Tone Patterns, 2-tone decode -- probably not necessary on GMRS
• TOT, BCLO, APO -- useful features
• DB-25 accessory connector, programmable I/Os -- probably not useful for most GMRS users
• Ignition sense -- would GMRS users use this?
• PA/Horn Alert -- might be useful to GMRS users
• Mil-spec mic -- keep this
• Cloning -- keep this
• Mil-spec housing, IP54/55 -- keep this
• OST -- keep this
• Scanning features -- keep this
• MDC-1200 -- only useful to set the user apart from the cheap, Chinese radios that don't have this feature.

How many of these features could simply be turned off in firmware or "disappeared" in the KPG programming software? Without these features, could Kenwood build an affordable "TK-8181G"? Yes, I know, Kenwood isn't likely to jump on the GMRS bandwagon. But, it's fun to speculate.

View attachment 184593s

When I got heavy into GMRS in the 1980s there was FCC wording that said part 90 radios were acceptable to use on GMRS and I have seen it and have based radio purchases on it. But recent FCC changes preclude using at least newer part 90 radios due to new wording that says you cannot have any other radio service programmed into a GMRS radio besides GMRS or possibly the capability to do that. Maybe older radios are grandfathered in, maybe not. The FCC would have to undo recent changes that would allow us to go backwards and use any part 90 radio on GMRS and I doubt that will happen.

Edit, to add to this and the way I read things, technically no prior combo part 90 and part 95 accepted radio is legal under the current FCC wording due to the ability to program other services along with GMRS and this would include the Kenwoods being discussed and I think only the FCC can give the bottom line answer on this.

 

[kc2asb]

When I got heavy into GMRS in the 1980s there was FCC wording that said part 90 radios were acceptable to use on GMRS and I have seen it and have based radio purchases on it. But recent FCC changes preclude using at least newer part 90 radios due to new wording that says you cannot have any other radio service programmed into a GMRS radio besides GMRS or possibly the capability to do that. Maybe older radios are grandfathered in, maybe not. The FCC would have to undo recent changes that would allow us to go backwards and use any part 90 radio on GMRS and I doubt that will happen.

Edit, to add to this and the way I read things, technically no prior combo part 90 and part 95 accepted radio is legal under the current FCC wording due to the ability to program other services along with GMRS and this would include the Kenwoods being discussed and I think only the FCC can give the bottom line answer on this.

Would a Motorola Maxtrac be legal for GMRS? I have a 32ch UHF model that I purchased over 20 years ago from another ham operator. I used it for years on 440 amateur plus I had some 460MHz public safety programmed in RX only. These were great radios in their day and now pop up on Ebay for $50 or less with the DTMF mic.

 

[prcguy]

Would a Motorola Maxtrac be legal for GMRS? I have a 32ch UHF model that I purchased over 20 years ago from another ham operator. I used it for years on 440 amateur plus I had some 460MHz public safety programmed in RX only. These were great radios in their day and now pop up on Ebay for $50 or less with the DTMF mic.

If the Maxtrac was originally part 95 accepted then maybe, but under the current wording of the rules no. The FCC does not have a history of allowing something in writing then making it illegal later, or at least not without a 5yr or more grace period. Thats why I say the FCC is the only one that can answer some of these questions as all we can do is speculate on their poorly written rules.

 

[kc2asb]

If the Maxtrac was originally part 95 accepted then maybe, but under the current wording of the rules no. The FCC does not have a history of allowing something in writing then making it illegal later, or at least not without a 5yr or more grace period. Thats why I say the FCC is the only one that can answer some of these questions as all we can do is speculate on their poorly written rules.

Understood, and thanks. I just wanted to mention it as the Maxtracs are simple, reliable no-frills radios and are plentiful. We'll all be a lot older waiting for answers from the FCC.

It's very commendable that the OP wants to do everything completely legal.

 

[sallen07]

But recent FCC changes preclude using at least newer part 90 radios due to new wording that says you cannot have any other radio service programmed into a GMRS radio besides GMRS or possibly the capability to do that.

That's not exactly what it says. Here's the relevant section of Part 95 E:

No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in § 95.1763, unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required. No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. All frequency determining circuitry (including crystals) and programming controls in each GMRS transmitter must be internal to the transmitter and must not be accessible from the exterior of the transmitter operating panel or from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure.

So in theory you could have a radio that was certified for Part 95 E and Part 80 (marine), for example. I'm sure such a beast does not exist.

This would also seem to open the door for combination MURS/GMRS radios, but unfortunately the rules for MURS don't allow that!

The key concept in that paragraph is that it specifically prohibits a radio from being certified for GMRS if it can transmit on ham radio frequencies. By extension that pretty much rules out getting a Part 90 radio certified for Part 95 E under the current regulations, since it would be necessary to block access to ham frequencies while allowing the rest of the frequency range. I am unaware of any Part 90 radios that do that, which makes sense because it is perfectly fine to use a Part 90 radio on the ham bands.

There seems to be a widespread assumption that radios that were type-accepted under the pre-2017 GMRS regulations are still certified for Part 95 E, but you are right ... I don't see anything in the current regulations that spells that out.